Sigh.
Said it before and I will say it again.
Best way to balance this is to do the following.
1) 100% Damage in PVP.
2) Multiply Everyone's HP by a factor of 3.
3) Leave Max hit caps in.
Then you have heals somewhat balanced against damage. Then you have HP advantages. Then you have damage over time being a factor.
Oh, Pvm? Make mobs hit 3x harder.
Problem solved.
Don't be lonely anymore.
Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.
bumpOriginally posted by Mike "Kinkstaah" Bond
Sigh.
Said it before and I will say it again.
Best way to balance this is to do the following.
1) 100% Damage in PVP.
2) Multiply Everyone's HP by a factor of 3.
3) Leave Max hit caps in.
Then you have heals somewhat balanced against damage. Then you have HP advantages. Then you have damage over time being a factor.
Oh, Pvm? Make mobs hit 3x harder.
Problem solved.
.: Naraya :.
Naraya,
Sure its very easy to keep up with the healing abilities with your nanos.
NT vs. Doc in PvP situation:
Players are both around 200 with HE running. And lets say that both have 6000 Nano Pool. I don’t need to include any weapon statistic, as both professions are fairly equal in this space.
NT (with the most damage over time nano)
Izgimmer’s Enveloping Flame by NT:
1 sec attack (animation)
4.8 sec recharge
Min Damage: 2249
Max Damage: 3074
Average Damage in PvP: 2661.2 /2 = 1330.75
Max Damage Per Second in PvP: 530 / 2 = 265.00
Nano Cost: 532
Nano Cost per Second: 91.73
CH by doc:
1 sec attack (animation)
8 sec recharge
Modify Target Health in PvP: 10001
Modify Target Health per Second in PvP: Nano Cost: 1111.2
Nano Cost: 1400
Nano Cost per Second: 152.18
Why is it so overpowered?
Damage vs. Heal:
- NTs Max Damage per Second in PvP with nanos is 265.00
- Docs ability to Modify Target’s Health per Second in PvP with nanos is: 1111.20
Nano Cost Efficiency Over the course of 1 minute:
- NTs will be able to do a max of 15900 damage on target in PvP. This costs 5504 amount of nano to accomplish.
- Docs will be able to heal 66672 damage in PvP. This costs 9130.9 amount of nano to accomplish.
Conclusion
In away, by using same amount of nano then a NT (5504) a doc could heal for 40189 points of damage where as an NT can only do 15900 points of damage with nanos.
Interesting, but don't you think it would be easier just to make all heals and all damage to 50% as well. While reducing mob HP to half? This would only affect heals and mob HP/AR ratings.
Said it before and I will say it again.
Best way to balance this is to do the following.
1) 100% Damage in PVP.
2) Multiply Everyone's HP by a factor of 3.
3) Leave Max hit caps in.
Then you have heals somewhat balanced against damage. Then you have HP advantages. Then you have damage over time being a factor.
Oh, Pvm? Make mobs hit 3x harder.
Problem solved.
Decreptitude for one is like a root it wont stick. Tremors not easy self cast for any doc unless your lv 195+ with nice rare items. Rapid Palsy fairly easy self cast at lv 162. I do init debuff everyone fight in pvp and they still put out considerable amount of damage that I still have to heal. If I have cast full heal more than twice during a battle might well count myself dead if i'm taking that much damage plus I will end up running out nano pool very fast. Docs doing much damage as anyone else think your way off there. I do damage which is decent but was doing more damage than other people or anyone else then probably not need heal would I? Make a doctor alt please and play a doc for awhile till you ask for them to be nerfedOriginally posted by Naraya
Let's look shall we?
Uncontrollable Body Tremors
Duration: 2min 35sec
NR: 100%
Effect: -1452 to ALL inits (for ****'s sake...pick ONE)
Decreptitude
Duration: 2min 19sec
NR: 100%
Effect: -2569 to ALL inits (again..for ****'s sake...PICK ONE)
Rapid Palsy
Duration: 2min 8sec
NR: 100%
Effect: -1165 to ALL inits (for the third ****ing time...PICK ONE)
Balance? No. Not when one dose of Decreptitude can completely halt all forms of offense out of ANYONE. I have both ranged init & nano init capped, item boosted, and implanted yet any of these debuffs can send ALL of my inits into the negative. And then consider that a Doc can complete heal and do as much gun damage as anyone. What kind of ****ing balance is that FunCom? We'd all like to know.
Have you said this before?? Hmm.. you should learn to shout louderOriginally posted by Mike "Kinkstaah" Bond
Sigh.
Said it before and I will say it again.
Best way to balance this is to do the following.
1) 100% Damage in PVP.
2) Multiply Everyone's HP by a factor of 3.
3) Leave Max hit caps in.
Then you have heals somewhat balanced against damage. Then you have HP advantages. Then you have damage over time being a factor.
Oh, Pvm? Make mobs hit 3x harder.
Problem solved.
Really great idea (same as mine actually, see page 1)
Your argument is flawed from PvP perspective.Decreptitude for one is like a root it wont stick. Tremors not easy self cast for any doc unless your lv 195+ with nice rare items. Rapid Palsy fairly easy self cast at lv 162. I do init debuff everyone fight in pvp and they still put out considerable amount of damage that I still have to heal. If I have cast full heal more than twice during a battle might well count myself dead if i'm taking that much damage plus I will end up running out nano pool very fast. Docs doing much damage as anyone else think your way off there. I do damage which is decent but was doing more damage than other people or anyone else then probably not need heal would I? Make a doctor alt please and play a doc for awhile till you ask for them to be nerfed
A properly prepared doc does not run out of nano pool quickly while you can still outheal most damage thrown at you in this game when in comes down to PvP situation. The only time you might suffer is when debuffed by MP or Trader, but pretty much against all other professions you either have stalemate situation or can win over time.
Docs main ability is healing, and should have a limited damage ability. Your fights should last a long time before you can actually outdamage anyone. However, your heals have too steap power curve when compared against any professions damage. This means that you can almost heal double the amount then your opponent can do damage. When you add an init debuff to that, you can almost heal 3-4 times amount the damage then your opponent will be able to do on you.
I do think docs should be hardest to kill in this game due to your heals, but this does not mean that you should still be able to kill someone easily in PvP. Docs do not even need init debuffs in PvP at the moment, your heals are far superior to any damage that can be thrown upon you.
Doc's *dont* do a lot damage, at lvl 200 a doc has 800 shotgun skill opposed to a lot classes with 1k+
Also if you check theres 1 Neo doc (Auno) and a few apprentices, thats it. Ever wondered why?
We can heal yes but we can't damage ****, we can't root either. In 2h0 a doc will NEVER get a kill, in camelot a doc will NEVER get a kill, in duels where one runs a doc will NEVER get a kill, starting to wonder something already?
It's only when both persons agree on not running, allowing outside buffs (doc needs HE/Crunch esp against ma). That's like creating a very special setting in where someone can win and then call neeerfffff! Sheesh.
NT's can land crown of frost, say goodbye to CH then because no doc has that much overload in BM/MM.
The formula where heals are counted 10k are also wrong because a smart doc CH's at 40% hp, usually with 7k hp total, so that are max 4k hp heals each time. Kind of stupid to heal at 1 hp no?
Maybe people have nightmares about seeing their inits decreased by 1500 or seeying a 5 digit number on a heal, but who do you fear more when standing in 25% and seeing someone approach? A 200 ma/enf/soldier or a doc? If it's a doc you can just walk away unless your NT/MP/MA/Trader because you can debuff (or do lots dmg in the ma case).
Just because your own class has a weakness to another doesn't mean it has to be nerfed, docs have a lot classes they loose to and some the win to, some are 50%.
Play a doc to 150+ sometimes and you'll reconsider all your own nerfcries, you'll even start whining about the crap damage you do. If you're a selfbuffer you can even forget about winning battles.
Letah, docs not having many titles is not an issue here. Titles aren't the issue here.
Not many docs use CH like that anyway. My statistics was correct tho. I would understand your point if it was a small difference then I would be aligned to do a close study on it, but the difference is ENERMOUS.
I am so sick an tired of few overpowered professions trying to justify their existence. It is absurd that whn damage was halved while heals remained the same. There is no justification for this. However, this is not a doc only issue, but the imbalance problem is with all professions with ability to heal.
And btw, 50% heal would hardly nerf docs. You described it yourself pretty well.
Last edited by North; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 10:56:45.
Yes, of course, just as DoTs are 50%, HoTs should have 50% too.Originally posted by Oljalyn
What about fixer HoTs? Should they be halved in healing too?
President of Ali Baba and the 40 thieves
Garzu 193 Day 1 NT & Garzuperman My Fixer 4 fun since NTs are broken
GA3/4 DESPERATELY NEEDED!!
Get a mochams and you cast Tremors at lvl 100. NCU space is not an issue anymore now with Fixer NCU buffs.Originally posted by Drsweetie1
Decreptitude for one is like a root it wont stick. Tremors not easy self cast for any doc unless your lv 195+ with nice rare items. Rapid Palsy fairly easy self cast at lv 162. I do init debuff everyone fight in pvp and they still put out considerable amount of damage that I still have to heal. If I have cast full heal more than twice during a battle might well count myself dead if i'm taking that much damage plus I will end up running out nano pool very fast. Docs doing much damage as anyone else think your way off there. I do damage which is decent but was doing more damage than other people or anyone else then probably not need heal would I? Make a doctor alt please and play a doc for awhile till you ask for them to be nerfed
So you init debuff everybody for -1500 every fight, but still get hit for a considerable amount of damage? What is considerable to you? And funny part is that even if you init debuff many ppl in a battle, but still get hit for alot of damage, that means more than one (init debuffed) victim is attacking you... One victim debuffed with -1500 to all inits are NOT doing anything even close to "considerable amount of damage" UNLESS this victim got some specials saved up. But as long as the init debuffed victim is alone, and has fired off his specials, YOU will NOT recieve a "considerable amount of damage", infact you will laugh at the damage done to you, the dmg over time from the victim to you will be extremely low, so what you are saying is just and ONLY BS.
President of Ali Baba and the 40 thieves
Garzu 193 Day 1 NT & Garzuperman My Fixer 4 fun since NTs are broken
GA3/4 DESPERATELY NEEDED!!
Originally posted by Garzu-perman
Yes, of course, just as DoTs are 50%, HoTs should have 50% too.
Thats quite absurd since you can cut big cake into half but if you do this for a bite it will look funny.
Besides every friggin proff out there fight with HoTs on so where is the imbalance in that?
Lion Strimple aka Sware
North and Garzu try making doctors please play them up lv 162 + before you go posting about 50% healing.
I have PNH and Jobe running fight enforcer here. First off I init debuff him and fight goes on. At one point during the fight even with init debuff going on the enforcer I could not keep up with the damage with normal heals and ended up using full heal a lot. Sadly damage I did to him could be easily healed with mongo or layers using less nano than me having to constantly heal. I found his damage shield doing more damage to me than my shotgun was hitting him.
These are not like wave my hands over my head and I'm instantly healed with no recharge time or nano cost. If I'm constantly healing i'm also taking away from time I could be doing damage. So I suppose I should constantly cast full heal at 1100 nano cost thanx jobe every 8 seconds with a 235 nano increase every 15 seconds? Yay granted I wont run out nano really fast but yes I will run out also counting the times going have refresh the init debuff and dot's.
I will never get beat trader , mp and fixer almost everytime so maybe should make a post say nerf them? I have hard time taking down if dont end up dieing to smart enforcers, high lv adv's , other docs, MA's and smart NT's. Most of the time I can take down soldiers , crats, agents and engineers. Every class has their banes.
Yes I think titles are a issue North. You trying to argue the effectiveness of doctors in pvp when hardly doctor ingame a title above apprentice while I see tons of Soldiers etc running around with Novice , Neophyte.
Garzu I like to pvp but dont like seaching for outside buffs 2 hours just pvp for 1 hour. I dont have my own personal NT , Ma and fixer following me willing to buff at the drop of a dime.
Before you go about posting about how doctors should be nerfed please go play one high lv or learn how to play your own profession.
Last edited by Divinecross; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 12:45:51.
healing is a much more difficult thing to do in PVP as it is, players deal so much more damage than mobs.
damage is based on opponent HPs, heals are based on opponents damage. in pvp opponents have LESS hp and MORE damage, thus heals should be increased if anything.
complete heal is a seperate topic altogether, as it's a percentage heal, not a set value.
this is just bad math perpetuated by non-healers
Funny reading.... it has to be a noob NT and a noob DOC fighting it out, since almost every doc i know CH as fast as they hp drops to 50%.... and i cant see that the doc does any dmg to the NT? I also see that u base the calculation upon nt using nukes only.... then base the dmg output of the doc on dot's wich drain the nanopool pretty heavy, and a 200 doc is nowhere near killing a 200 nt with dot's only and leaves less nano for CH... So this is pretty lousy matematic, yes we can CH so what?Originally posted by North
Naraya,
Sure its very easy to keep up with the healing abilities with your nanos.
NT vs. Doc in PvP situation:
Players are both around 200 with HE running. And lets say that both have 6000 Nano Pool. I don’t need to include any weapon statistic, as both professions are fairly equal in this space.
NT (with the most damage over time nano)
Izgimmer’s Enveloping Flame by NT:
1 sec attack (animation)
4.8 sec recharge
Min Damage: 2249
Max Damage: 3074
Average Damage in PvP: 2661.2 /2 = 1330.75
Max Damage Per Second in PvP: 530 / 2 = 265.00
Nano Cost: 532
Nano Cost per Second: 91.73
CH by doc:
1 sec attack (animation)
8 sec recharge
Modify Target Health in PvP: 10001
Modify Target Health per Second in PvP: Nano Cost: 1111.2
Nano Cost: 1400
Nano Cost per Second: 152.18
Why is it so overpowered?
Damage vs. Heal:
- NTs Max Damage per Second in PvP with nanos is 265.00
- Docs ability to Modify Target’s Health per Second in PvP with nanos is: 1111.20
Nano Cost Efficiency Over the course of 1 minute:
- NTs will be able to do a max of 15900 damage on target in PvP. This costs 5504 amount of nano to accomplish.
- Docs will be able to heal 66672 damage in PvP. This costs 9130.9 amount of nano to accomplish.
Conclusion
In away, by using same amount of nano then a NT (5504) a doc could heal for 40189 points of damage where as an NT can only do 15900 points of damage with nanos.
CH is a complete heal just as nullity stops all dmg to the nt.
Lets nerf CH to 50/40 or whatever i dont mind, as long as nullity also is nerfed to 40/50 along with nt's layers.
Kylee,
No, it accurate math.
If there is a profession that can use a nano that heals X amount of damage in Y amount of time, there should be a profession that can use nanos that do X amount of damage Y amount of time.
If there is no such profession, there is a balance problem.
Don't try to hide behind your nano pool, nobody runs out of nano quicker then NTs. It is not the issue here. Nano Pool is not ment to last for ever. My example gives exactly the point why there is no balance tho.
Come up with a better explanation why exactly is the following statistic fair by any means and I would say that you might have a case here:
Edit: Fryli, please don't be an ignorant fool. This was a quote from a post I made earlier. why don't you check it out before making your pointless statements. It was purely illustrating a power cap between Heal Vs. Damage nanos.In away, by using same amount of nano then a NT (5504) a doc could heal for 40189 points of damage where as an NT can only do 15900 points of damage with nanos.
Last edited by North; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 14:31:05.
It's pretty funny to se how Garzu still whines about healing, he who exploited himself into GM playfield and upped his weaponskills to the lvl of soldiers just so his desire to be uber could be fulfilled.
Now he have started and "uber" profession in AO, a profession that is almost impossible to kill. Even me as a "godly" doc cant kill a Fixer unless i'm insanely lucky, does not matter if i can cast UBT, best dot's.
Fixers hot's, evades and GA soaks up all the damage i do.
I've tried this to many times, and in fights nowadays i dont even bother to attack fixer, it's just a waist of time. (i cast UBT tho, to stop them from insta-rooting).
Now lvl up some Garzu, and tell me at lvl 165+ how uber u find doc's figting fixers, i'm pretty sure i wont see u cry for nerf upon GA...
Last edited by Fryli; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 14:46:24.
trust me its bad math
if you know the difference between proportionate and inversely proportionate
target's hp goes up, damage dealt to target should go up
target's hp goes down, damage dealt to target should go down
target's damage received goes up, target's heals go up
target's damage received goes down, target's heals go down
in pvp, target's hp goes down, and target's damage received goes up.
simple, thats balance
p.s this is about the '50% damage means 50% healing' argument, not about how some NTs cant beat a doctor
Last edited by kylee; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 14:49:03.
You do not even want me to start talking about it Fryli. Docs are quite unkillable to my experience. But they are meant to be the best healing class as we are meant to be the best evading class.
I do not have any problems with any buffs or debuffs as well. Just wanted my NR would actually work against deprives and rapid palsy sometimes.
As for the dmg you needent cast anything other then healing to survive against us. With rapid palsy on we have 'NO' chance of killing you in a million years.
edit: /me points to his postcount before further comments.
Last edited by Sware; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 14:58:49.
Lion Strimple aka Sware
"CH is a complete heal just as nullity stops all dmg to the nt.
Lets nerf CH to 50/40 or whatever i dont mind, as long as nullity also is nerfed to 40/50 along with nt's layers."
Yeahhh... NS1 lasts about 10 seconds after casting animation. NS2 maybe 15-16. It roots the NT, you can still get debuffed through it, damage shields hit for full through it, etc, etc. And it is locked for 1 minute. That is pathetic compared to complete 10k heals at will. Sure the nano runs out, and I frankly am not looking for docs to get nerfed I think they are fine how they are, but don't bring nulity into this Fryli if you know jack **** about it. It's hardly even worth uploading compared to the bonuses form other "rare" nanos like grid armour.
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