Friday with Means - July 3rd, 2009 - German Server and AO Learning Curve

[Fishpaste]

Is that percentage for DNW survey against individual accounts or individuals as real people?

If it's against accounts then it's easy for people to register a survey response against multiple accounts and put a real nasty skew on the results.

What percentage of the DNW population actually answered the survey? Do you have the nay-sayers being the only people that answered in force?

Interesting that only percentages are given and those are only based on the results. It would be more worthwhile to see those figures measured against active accounts. and paid versus fr00b.

You may get more fr00bs going paid if the community was bigger and more active.

At the end of the day, unless you slice the figures correctly you are looking at misinformation which can potentially harm your business. Give us all the data and we'll tell you what needs doing

[JazlynKeppler]

Interesting point of view to say someone is xenophobic becaus he/she does not want any change in their beloved game.
I get along quite good with my friends playing on DNW. Every Content except pf42 is steady raidable.

[Nosgoth]

Masta, this WoW-player example is great.... german word taken over by english people taken back to germany. ^^ The only thing that is missing in "Mein Zauberer ist so über" is an adjective like "mächtig" or "planlos" following the "über". That's something the French tried to prevent by defending their language against foreign influences. But both, the Germans and the french, failed in one or another way.

But okay, now I still do disagree with your opinion, but I can understand that you've got another point of view on these things because of your danish origin, where, as I understand, many things are not translated (I think mainly because lack of demand through lower population).

[SoldiTwo]

"ja, mein zauberer ist sehr über"

At least in my circle we would say uber, not with ü.
I guess it's because it sounds more like obercool.

The rally amazing thing of course is, how the german WoW community cried when Blizzard translated even the names to german. Stormwind became Sturmwind, etc. Even after all these years, "Sturmwind" stills sounds wrong.

Danish isn't bad. It's a nice language for every day use in Denmark. But, voice acting is an artform and it's not one that's really practiced many places outside of Japan. Japanese voice actors are extremely talented, why I would never watch animé dubbed if I could in any way avoid it. In the large productions, like Disney movies, they use talented actors for the voices and money is spent on making them sound well and convincing. However, for the saturday morning cartoons or TV series or whatever, it's just run of the mill 9-5 work for the involved.
I have been able to watch German TV channels always, and whenever you clicked by a german channel, you see american actors speaking with the voice of some german voice actor, whose voice is not properly integrated with the audio of whatever it is and you can hear that he's just yet another guy doing voice acting because it's steady work... horrible. I'm sure my german would've been better today if german TV had something interesting on there and not just dubbed versions of shows that I could watch in their native language with subs

I agree, this is really a problem with dubbed versions/translations, some speakers just kill the spirit of the original and that sucks. Sometimes, like in Brave New world they even change parts of it, city names and locations where changed to germany.

Sadly, most of the dubbed versions could be better, but I once saw ALF on a polish channel. There was only 1! Speaker who spoke all!

[Gastastic]

The complexity is a key to AO's charm. Presented properly the complexity will intrigue the kinds of people that will enjoy this game. Presented properly it will make the people who do not belong run screaming. This is good. Recruiting and mentoring people who don't belong is a waste of everyone's time.

The mentor concept is cool though.

The expansions have added complexity and difficulty but in a fashion that's divorced from the old, organized scale of increasing difficulty. In a lot of ways that's cool - there's much more lateral content. However, this has led to a) an excess of endgame content - especially spiked with profoundly stat-changing rewards, and b) content that's utterly divorced from the original story or anything that jibes with it. The details of the story - names and dates - are much less important than an underlying and world-spanning consistency in content: it makes immersion satisfying.

Once the new graphics are in place then advertising will bring in all kinds of people. Niche advertising could target the kinds of people likely to enjoy this game. But the intro needs to be redone. It should give someone a thumbnail synpopsis of the game dynamics, of the story, that much and no more. A separate, interactive video tutorial - context based with user trigger options (on by default with all new character creation, can be switched off by vets) will help newbs acclimate.

In keeping with that last idea, and with the mentoring concept, putting in place a mechanic that allows older players to 'hire' (and therefore, ostensibly, train) newbs for causes whose rewards would be welcome by higher level players could result in a dynamic that both would enjoy and benefit from.

Rather than focusing on new end-game content to keep the subscribed vets happy with shiny new things, focusing on content that applies across all levels but gives vets a greater role in things (creative/management input rather than OP phatz for level 220s) will re-invigorate vets while entangling them in the affairs of newbs.

[Mastablasta]

But okay, now I still do disagree with your opinion, but I can understand that you've got another point of view on these things because of your danish origin, where, as I understand, many things are not translated (I think mainly because lack of demand through lower population).

In the past, only things that were translated were some children's TV and large feature length cartoons. Live action movies and TV series have never, and still aren't, translated. Although a few children's movies have been. I'm against that I learned half my English from watching English speaking cartoons as a child and the subtitles helped me learn how to read now a days kids get translated crap that sounds awful.

I just don't agree with the practice of taking one person's work and exchanging it with another inferior version, just because people are too lazy to read subtitles.

[Inovaye]

Interesting point of view to say someone is xenophobic becaus he/she does not want any change in their beloved game.
I get along quite good with my friends playing on DNW. Every Content except pf42 is steady raidable.

You didn't answer my question... And saying you can raid anything with your friends just means that you need to ask them for help and you are not able to find a team with people who need the same content. And out of the Maintime it's almost impossible to find anyone for anything at all (0-5 People in LFT for all sides is just sad..).

And I nerver said anything against changes in general, I just dislike the stupid ones.

[Windguaerd]

Means, ask Silirrion about the video tutorials he made when we both were working at AO Vault.

If I remember right, he used FRAPS to record a few "how-to" videos of how to get from point A to point B in the shadowlands.

Now it doesn't take a genius to create video tutorials, if you worry about bandwidth... youtube the tutorials.

All it would take is about 2 people, one to do the recording and write the tutorial, another to maybe do the voice and video editing. There has to be at least a few ARK's that can do either or both roles.

[JazlynKeppler]

You didn't answer my Question... And saying you can raid anything with your friends just means that you need to ask them for help and you are not able to find a team with people who need the same content. And out of the Maintime it's almost impossible to find anyone for anything at all (0-5 People in LFT for all sides is just sad..).

And I nerver said anything against changes in general, I just dislike the stupid ones.

Yes I ask my friends, why shouldn't I? I'll stick to the raids, do you prefer doing tasks with players you don't know? The point is not that I am not able to find other players but that I don't want to do it with other players if I am not forced to do so.

[Inovaye]

Yes I ask my friends, why shouldn't I? I'll stick to the raids, do you prefer doing tasks with players you don't know? The point is not that I am not able to find other players but that I don't want to do it with other players if I am not forced to do so.

I think doing stuff with unknown players is a really important part of any MMO. I prefer playing with many different players and possibly become friends for a nice chat or ask for help when it's really necessary for some minor things.... or I'm just too social for such games...

[JazlynKeppler]

That is the difference between you and me. You look for other players and I don't. Call me cold or antisocial if you want. I don't care.
Maybe that's why you won't understand my point of view.
There are many different types of players in MMO's and so are their goals or interests.
Like you I do care about DNW, even if it doesn't seem so. Either DNW gets more players w/o FC's help or it dies.
I am just too tired from reading the "FC do something DNW is dying!" posts.

[Ikarus]

Well, I tend to share Mastablasta's opinion. Most translations simply aren't good. The WoW-Example is great, altough Eisenschmiede and Sturmwind are correct they simply have a different feel than Ironforge and Stormwind.
Terry Pratchett's Discworld Novels are the same issue. I absolutely love reading them - in english. As far as the german translations go.. It felt like reading something mediocre and unfunny. Same story with Futurama. Even if I'd have the chance to see all episodes in german I wouldn't dare to do so. Saw one once on TV... and absolutely hated the voice-acting.
A brilliant example of an undubbed movie is Letters from Iwo Jima. I simply can't imagine it would feel even half as intense after a complete localization.

So, let's switch back to the main topic. The main loss regarding a DNW-merge wouldn't be the loss of the german community. Given the merge with one server we should be able to continue friendships and feuds (). A real turn off are the circumstances. Long story short: I'd hate to loose my char's name and therefore identity. That's why I'm unable to decide, since the benefits of a transfer aren't easy to swoop of the board.

Newbie Experience/Game experience:
Removing the complexity would be wrong. Simple as that. What could be better are little NPC-guided tutorials covering the different aspects of gameplay. Combat mechanics, equipping items, the magic of implants and a basic idea about crafting. The imporant thing is to deliver not just the how, but the why and when, too.
The possibilities to gain credits are much too low, too. Being able to buy the most basic Nanos and a decent set of Implants, Armors and Weapons from the Shops should be possible with a relative ease through running missions and teammissions as well as crafting ( Thinking of Blood Plasma, Rings and maybe an equivalent from Scrapmetal ). While those possibilites obviously exist, they are way to inefficient to be considered rewarding or even fun.
Including Clicksaver (gameside!) into the mission terminals would be a major step, too.
Flattening out the leveling curve at least for Rubi-Ka levels should be considered as well. When playing a game the foremost aim is to have fun. Leveling is often more a chore than fun. While seeing that not everyone needs to be 220/30/70 asap it should be logical that a Year 2009 Char should'nt take thrice the time a Year 2002 char took to reach the top level. Yeah, I know, now it's easy, back in the days we hecklered 24/7 in the rain, with the sun burning as hot as in the sahara!
Keep in mind that I'm only talking about the ascending levels/shadow levels as I consider Alien Levels and Research perks more as a horizontal finetuning. The core are the RK&SL-Levels which should be easier accessible. Especially the parallel AI & LE levels are something that I really like in character developtment. All my other chars aren't over tl5, though, since I never found fun in leveling beyond ~160. It just feels (!) like a big hole of "nothing to gain here until 201". And we're not talking about just some 6-7 hours of commitment and it's over.
When those things are being looked at I'll rejoin. It just feels way too much of a chore, sadly. Twinking, tinkling with and exploring the complexity of AO was (and I assume it still is) an awesome experience. The hope of returning is the reason why I'm still edging around here, really looking forward to what Means will do with the game I started MMORPGing with ( And still love ).
So, at this point: A big thumbs up for you and your team, Means. Please go on like this: I'm more than curious to see where the journey goes.

[Esproc]

Just some thoughts to help the game along.

Let froobs use the first level of ofab.
Make the types trade able so that players don't have to grind as much if they prefer not to.
Maybe even let froobs use penultimate ofab if they get the types from a paid player.

Implants, armor, ammo, etc on ICC shuttleport.
Mission entrance and roller for solo/team missions.
Alien raids on newb island for low types etc usable on the lowbie kyr weapons.
OT tailer on island and a new clan/neut venders with similar(?) armors.
Portal to and from SL starter area to Shuttleport.
Wider range of difficulty on island mobs as you move farther in, lower lvl cap to 15, evict at 16.
Make the shadowlands starter area match that.
Entrance to backyards from shuttleport and back again for accessing the mini bosses and if the players want a less crowded area to play in.

Soulmarks/Bloodmarks from inner sanctum wearable with social armor.
Remove title requirement from crat briefcase.

Improve VP scaling from alien missions.
XP modifiers affecting VP rewards from BS.

Obv. there is a lot more that could be done but I think this is already long enough for what I perceive as off topic.

[lugoman]

Sorry for distracting Means, i sat on his lap the whole day and forced him to write something for the German Community Survey

I dont know, didnt work out well the last time Germans got a lot of attention.

[nitr0]

53% = overwhelming majority = overwhelming joke.

byebye dnw and ao, i am too fed up with this.

u can sum up everything he wrote to " we won´t do anything about dnw being empty and chars being trapped".
guess ppl will wake up when the free month is over and the other 47% said goodbye to a deserted server...

chance missed (if there was any, anyways)

[JazlynKeppler]

Stop counting the undecided for your own side. kthxbye.

[Mastablasta]

The whole "Implants, ammo, etc." on newbie land is not really all that much of a helping hand in the whole "let's make it easier to get into AO" attempt. The whole deal needs to be eased far more on players, with more basic introduction to the various concepts and possibilities.

[Saetos]

Depends on what you mean by "basic concepts." There's quite a lot you can learn by experimentation (much of the twinking process, etc), and what newbies need is a stepladder to allow them to discover new ways of enhancing their character, not complete descriptions of every aspect of AO.

[Flyingengi]

53% = overwhelming majority = overwhelming joke.

byebye dnw and ao, i am too fed up with this.

u can sum up everything he wrote to " we won´t do anything about dnw being empty and chars being trapped".
guess ppl will wake up when the free month is over and the other 47% said goodbye to a deserted server...

chance missed (if there was any, anyways)

I'd rather loose 47% than 53%.

53% is an overwhelming majority.

If it was 40%, 30%, 30%....then it would be just a small majority.


When there is twice as many ppl that want to stay than those that want to merge, (53 vs 20), that is an overwhelming majority...sorry.

And Means didn't say they where not going to do anything, he said they would work on making the German servers better.

[Inovaye]

Stop counting the undecided for your own side. kthxbye.

Stop flaming everyone who thinks that Means' conclusion is just stupid

I'd rather loose 47% than 53%.

53% is an overwhelming majority.

If it was 40%, 30%, 30%....then it would be just a small majority.


When there is twice as many ppl that want to stay than those that want to merge, (53 vs 20), that is an overwhelming majority...sorry.

You can't really split the "anti-DNW" options because of the nature of the question... The idea is the same and everyone who voted those doesn't like the current state of RK3.