Friday with Means - July 3rd, 2009 - German Server and AO Learning Curve

[ArienSky]

Id be all for starting a new. Yes I put over a bil into twinking my NT and yes I spent way more time farming that I needed to. But so many players with alts they haven't logged in a year+. It would be nice to see the economy get more sane levels..especially for the new guys who have a hard time just farming 1 k let alone a few mil..

Yes most will not agree with me purely because they don't want to lose the stuff they farmed a few hours for but eh. You cannot make everyone happy.

Not saying I want this to happen but I surely wouldn't mind too much...tho I won't be too happy having to farm another Notu

-- Ani

It would be a factor for me to leave at least.

one of the things holding me is the found memories and the result of long time spend.
There is a reason I only have an egen on one of the servers, getting the 900 nanos yet again, I would not do.

Another factor of why I do not have that high alts: I already have the majority of RK nanoes for the professions on my Agent.
It seems a bit waste to get them again on another toon, though they are hugely more effective for the real professions.

A reset?
I doubt I would return.

I will come back after a forced IP reset (everything taken off, all skills reset)
but starting anew I would not.

You say people have spend "a few hours" getting something..
you should study the /played feature, for some it is literally months.

Kind Regards
Ariensky

PS. Means, what is the combined /played for AO?

[animaly]

As I said I know most would not agree with me. As far as the few hours spent comment; There are many players who have some into this world and spent countless hours farming items. There is no doubt about this and for those players yes it would be a huge hit.

Unfortunately, most of those players are already gone. Now a days, its power lvl with guildies and get higher lvl help to farm items that took months to farm in a few hours or days.

I would however hate to see see you go if something like this were to happen (tho not probable), but my view still stands I would not like to start over however sometimes it is necessary to clean out your closet and start anew.

Sorry for the confusion,

--Ani

[Gresshoppe]

Solution:

AO2

Keep AO running, but release AO2, with a clean server and the new engine.

[ArienSky]

animaly, I can only agree, a lot of things could do with a reset.

If I were AO management, I would get a ½ year contract with an economist, or have them make a report on the internal economy, along with explaining basic economic principles of how to slow down an over-heated economy or starting up a dyeing one.

I know Means attend meetings with other game director, where I am pretty sure they among other things talk virtual economy.

A change indeed would be welcomed.
The orbital apartments were a chance, but why spend 1 bil ingame credit for one toon, when you for 30$ can get one for each and everyone of your toons.

They went from being rare; only those with ingame credits having them, to something everyone could get.
Making it even less attractive to buy one with credits, as people would just suspect you of "E-buying" Paid Points.


I indeed would like an equipment reset; a forced IP reset as mentioned, with everything taken off the toons.

Then armors, nanoes, perks etc. can be adjusted and balanced.
Almost the new world you suggest, but people would still have there precious Halloween items, armor and nanoes they have spend time on getting.

Kind Regards
Ariensky

[drainbamage]

As a relatively new player, I have to say this:
AO is not as complex as people make it out to be. Most of the supposed complexity involves knowing where the pitfalls are (useless skills, etc) and how to best abuse the system to use as many overlevelled gear/nanos/implants as possible - both of which can easily be learned by browsing forums.

If you ripped out all the newb-traps the learning curve would drop significantly without actually changing the core of AO.

[Mereditche]

As a relatively new player, I have to say this:
AO is not as complex as people make it out to be. Most of the supposed complexity involves knowing where the pitfalls are (useless skills, etc) and how to best abuse the system to use as many overlevelled gear/nanos/implants as possible - both of which can easily be learned by browsing forums.

If you ripped out all the newb-traps the learning curve would drop significantly without actually changing the core of AO.

This ^^

[sebquantic]

I agree, and I'd argue that the same applies to the game's character customization. You can make a 1he soldier if you really want, but he's going to be comically useless after the earlier levels when none of the nanos, armor, or perks back up your choice. Each profession only has around 1 to 4 "setups" that they can go with. That is still way more than most games though and i'm not complaining.

[Esproc]

It would be nice to see weapon mastery perks open up a little more while still not being available to all.

But then you set allot of work on the Dev team deciding who gets what and yet more balancing issues.

Unless they were already doing this in which case we will have our variety again, hopefully...

I'm sure we all have opinions on at least a few lines we think should or should not be available to various professions, and likely many of them contradict.

Character creation was what pulled me in, I like trying different things, it would be nice to see the cookie cutter approach ended while still working for balance.

Even if it is more work I think in the long run it'd be better.

[animaly]

Granted I am not on the dev team but some things I would like to see implemented (agree with me or not, I am not out to please everyone this is purely my opinion)

Enf's pretty much they way the should be, not heavy dmg dealers but great at pulling agg, keeping it (most of the time) and taking tons of abuse (except in pvp)

Soljas, while they may seem over powered in some areas I believe that a solja and being the primary ranged counterpart to enfs, they have a mild or limited ability to tank, strong ability to gain aggro (second or third best to enfs or possibly shades, and masters of all ranged weapons..granted they will excel most at assault rifles or should anyways..all ranged weapons should be somewhat viable builds..not just the assault rifle or pistol/smg setups as it is now

Traders..possibly nerf AR a bit at lower lvls but should be more or less the same just toned down a bit. Possibly add one or 2 other viable weapons.

Engies, increased AR on pets, otherwise good as is as far as I am concerned.

MP's ....still trying to get a good feel..even after having 4 I am still not sure how I would go about balancing these or how I feel about their current setups and options... Maybe add pistols or bows as a better more viable option...

Docs...being I haven't leveled a doc very much I can't make a reasonable stand about them..I do believe they probably could be toned down a bit in pvp and pvp but this is just a wild opinion as I don't have much to back this up on yet...

NTs...I have one love it but I do feel we can be somewhat overpowered at some levels and then again we don't have enuff power at others...

Agents....just nerf AS or at least make it check against def like FA does to make it not quite as over powered..no reason AS should always land and almost always cap on a fixer..or any other proff for that matter...

Fixers....you already discussed my issue more or less..make them unique again instead of just fast running soljas...

Advies...jack of all trades...add some better support for us ranged and possibly some better melee and ranged buffs over all..we aren't specializing in anything but we should have such a gap in skill buffs for 1he and pistol like there is compared to enf's 1he skills and buffs...

MA's .... I don't and cannot really say much about this class yet..still exploring...

Keeper...see MA

Crat.. See Keeper...

Again I do not expect everyone to agree but just some thoughts for consideration..I do believe the pvp system needs to be rethought... anyone being able to kill any1 in just 3- hits is a bit ridiculous..but eh that's my 2 cents

Feel free to post your thoughts as I would like to know how everyone feels about this...

[ArienSky]

nice post animaly

One thing struck me though:
you mix PVP and PVM up in your post..


You talk about enforcers holding agro,
but for agents you talk about a defence check for AS.
Concealment is the PVM defence check for AS, and you can only pull it off once.


I would suggest you play an Agent in PVM, it is not that easy, as they have the nanoprograms way later than other professions. and endgame they have few choices, compared to the 100ish and 170ish sweet spots.

These are based on toon ut to lvl 100, PVM only:

Doctor: It is not my playstyle, I find the DPS really boreing.

Adventurer: easy to play, with little challenges, unless you go for tougher mobs.

Trader: Fun, as it requires skill to be good, but when you pull it off, you can do spectacular things.

MP: They need to get the heal pet on newcommers island..
apart from that note, I find it semi-interesting, can be challenging commanding pets and fighting at the same time. They also have interesting debuffs and nukes.

NT: I like AOEs, they are a bit small in the start though, all in all a profession I like, challenging, as they are so fragile and rely heavily on nano (and a fixer long HOT)

Crats: Rocks the PVM world, almost as much as Traders, again with a challenge. It goes great when you are, but errors can be catastrophic.

Keeper: Extremely easy. Interesting in teams, with the auras, but kind of boring, unless you up the challenge. (like Adventurers)

Engineer: boring, so much time spend buffing up to get a good bot, and no nanoes to do it yourself, as MPs have. Very interesting auras concept, sadly most Engi PVM is hiding and letting the bot do the rest.

-----------
When I in the above mentions "easy" it is without a good DOC, and compared to Agents (any profession can do well with a DOC, especially NT shine going full damage).
As mentioned: you can always find challenges in combating more and tougher monsters.

I have not forgotten any professions, I have just not played the others to a degree where I feel I can make judgements on how they are in PVM.

My favorite professions:
Trader
Agent
Crat

The easiest professions to play:
Adventurer
Keeper

As you can see I like a challenge, and a reward for doing complex things.
Adventurer and Keeper are so easy that it does not feel all that much like a reward when taking on tough mobs. You just tank them.

With Traders and crats you need to calm and debuff, being on your toes, especially in teams, where the Trader can act as healer as well.
They shine in lvl caped dungeons, as you can feel how you are superior to your lvl, when you work for it.

Traders (and crats) require tactics: what mob to calm, is it wise to heal now, as my own health goes down? should we start teh next batte, teh charm is wearing off?

Keepers and Adventurers only have one worry: Is Biococcon available? Have I buffed myself?
And at times: Did I pull too many mobs to go AFK during combat?
Adventurers, having active healing requires some skill, but they have no "tricks", just fighting and healing.

Kind Regards
Ariensky

[animaly]

My apology for not separating the two. Yes I did in corporate both PVP and PVM. most of this was pvm based but there are snippets that are pvp based such as the agents.

Because this was about total game balance I figured it was appropriate I just need to clarify a bit better.

-- Ani

Quote Ariensky

"I would suggest you play an Agent in PVM, it is not that easy, as they have the nanoprograms way later than other professions. and endgame they have few choices, compared to the 100ish and 170ish sweet spots."

I have actually, as a fr00b and with SL....as much as I believe AS is overpowered I do feel it performs well in PVM especially as it is the agents only real weapon skill. PVP however being it almost always caps and ALWAYS lands...just makes it seem a bit unrealistic. Even based off of modern day or futeristic snipers. Possibly if an agent had to sneak to perform it each and everytime I could see this as possibly being valid but to run around with fixer hots and snipe away at moving targets and always scoring crits is unbelievable to me....

maybe that is what they need, just to be forced to use sneak b4 each shot in pvp as well or to increase the min recharge so they cant kill you in 33 secs (assuming u have no reflects, absorbs ect)

[viandante]

You can't look at the current views of those on DNW bc of the ppl blabbing on the forums. That survey DOES show how people on DNW think. The MAJORITY want to stay.

The majority of the remaining ones. Most of the 220 in my org left the game in the last 6 months. There are only 3 active now. They left because the game was boring to them, frustated with not being able to build/get teams to do new and old content. Yes there is new boring content to "solo" like 12 man and voteex, that means more things to do and less people to make it. And I am rk1... Some bigger orgs are starting to feel population problems at higher levels, although they still survive because they cannibalize the smaller ones.

I would like a 3 server's merge and I know I have lots of things to loose, but increasing population will at least make the game playable again.

About the language, its obvious that most actual players of the game are from countries where english is native or where they don't have an spread native language so english is frequently used too.
I've always wondered why there where so few spanish speakers in AO while it is the mother language of more than 400 million people. Most of the friends that tried it left before leaving and the explanations where they don't like the game, but when you try to question why they don't like the game and they answers are that graphics sucks, sound sucks, and they barely understand all the english environment, so they don't have real access to the history, plots and roleplay.

Adding some more language specific channels would help and Newbs need to be able to talk to veteran players. All players should be able to read [newbie OOC] if they want to.

Dear means,

I joined anarchy online for the STORY of rebel clans fighting evil omni space empire
not for meaningless items with meaningless stats

items and stats appeal to veteran players but NOT NEW PLAYERS

focuing and revitalizing the story and dramitically increase rp activity and hire more rp staff


also: ITS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE FOR NEW PLAYERS TO FIND A VIABLE WEAPON WITHOUT OUTSIDE HELP. armor is ok, but getting good weapons are a big problem.
the damage of the shop weapons need to be increased from stupidly useless to at least viable

Couldn't agree more

Hai there

Cool, lots of good ideas

About noob island : You don't have to be subtle and good looking.

I started in the old backyard, there is boxes there floating with "shift+click" on them. So I did so and got basic infos. Also I started shift + clicking everything such as terminals, items, myself, etc...

Add these boxes to noob island explaining what is what and how to do item, add a huge ''right click this guy!" behind the paramedic, there is nothing wrong as putting such things as is serves the most vital info.
After that, what lupus said, plus it's hard to manage your cash and inventory without info.

One last thing that doesn't help keeping new players in is sound. Or the lack of it. Sound in AO sucks, and while music is great there is plenty of places where you don't hear any. That almost all of us have sound disabled is a good sign that it should be looked at.
I'm not kidding, I see people looking at the game complains about the sounds before even the graphics.

You can be subtle, where is Nurse Wiatt?

[Ayria]

Possibly if an agent had to sneak to perform it each and everytime I could see this as....

.. making us as horrible at PvP as we are at PvM. You know there's a reason why Agents have been asking for a new rifle for sometime. It's because we only get one AS per fight and our damage sucks without it.

If it worked the same in PvP then we'd get one AS, or none, every group fight. Pop outa sneak, AS one guy, manage to kill him but not before a second guy gets agg and you can't get back into sneak to AS again. Or the ever wonderful "Hold agg across the entire BS from a turret" scheme that would totally ruin Agents.

Not really what I'd call, ideal.

A better solution has been suggested in the past and that is to make (in PvP at least) AS check vs a defense. Conceal vs Perception. That way we'd still need to IP conceal to land AS but we don't have to rely on Sneak itself and can AS multiple times in a fight so long as the check passes each time.

[animaly]

.. making us as horrible at PvP as we are at PvM. You know there's a reason why Agents have been asking for a new rifle for sometime. It's because we only get one AS per fight and our damage sucks without it.

If it worked the same in PvP then we'd get one AS, or none, every group fight. Pop outa sneak, AS one guy, manage to kill him but not before a second guy gets agg and you can't get back into sneak to AS again. Or the ever wonderful "Hold agg across the entire BS from a turret" scheme that would totally ruin Agents.

Not really what I'd call, ideal.

A better solution has been suggested in the past and that is to make (in PvP at least) AS check vs a defense. Conceal vs Perception. That way we'd still need to IP conceal to land AS but we don't have to rely on Sneak itself and can AS multiple times in a fight so long as the check passes each time.

You have valid points, however It is my belief that agents are not supposed to be front line dmg dealers anyways but to pick off a few players from a distance then run/sneak. I do believe that AS should check against def so we are in agreement there.

As far as only surviving 1 AS, I duel lots of agents on many of my alts and twinks and I seldom see that to be the cast especially after tl4/5 where most agents go enf/doc for HP against lower hp proffs. Now I can see agents being able to utilize a "camo nano" that makes them harder to see/target and easier to sneak. Even on top of the ruse line of nanos...