Nerfing Low Light Targeting Scope

[___________Reaperman]

Keep the scopes as they are , just add - 10000 to phys and melee init !!! - This will stop the meleers using em

Or do you want to nerf the snakemaster brigade as i call them .

Well stick a big shotgun debuff on the scope . There we'll have a big brigade of river series users now .

Ok Lets think of another thing - Halve the crit and add crit % / 2 xp% bonus . THere

[kilroy13]

Ok, i read everything in both threads on this and here are my suggestions:


First lets look at the intention of the LLTS, its to do damage. Period. People take a major speed hit so they can do MORE DAMAGE.

So trade skill increases, xp increases, general skill increases, hp and np are moot, that is simply not what you spent the money/ip on to equip it. It might be a nice tradeoff (ok, no matter what it sucks loosing the +15 crit) but its not inline with what EVERYONE that equiped the a LLTS wanted.

So any tradeoff increases need to be in damage.

+to attack ratings
+to damage
+to to offense

Every scope that was 8% or above stays at 8% crit increase, and as ql increases you get more and more of the above damage increasing effects.

I would also think that there would be some ammount of init penalty decreases also, since there is no way your going to make up for the loss of +7% crit just by increasing some damage, specially when the damage will never be increased enough to counter less crit.


And making this non-MA or less effective for MA's is just silly. Bracers were nerfed because people were reflecting too much when soldiers are the reflect masters. So bracers were nerfed the same for everybody. MA's are the crit class, so any decrease which effects something crit based needs to be equal on all classes. Do MA's crit like a son of a gun, yes, that is simply what they are supposed to do.

[______________Norton]

Here's a list of potential reasons that would "justify" the nerf. All in the eyes of the beholder, of course. Also some comments on some of the proposed solutions.

1.The LLTS is not available to newer players. A majority of you out there seem to think this is the reason the LLTS is being nerfed; that Funcom is just listening to a bunch of "noob whiners".

2.Certain combinations are overpowered. Are high level MAs using high level scopes (24% UVC + 15% scope + 4% TTS + 2% GoC = 45%) overpowered? How about the same MAs using ranged weapons? How about other classes/combinations?

3.Damage output too high in general. PvM fights too easy, too short at high levels. Damage needs to be cut back across the board.

4.Players with an LLTS have a significant advantage in PvP. Some might say that an LLTS is a prerequisite to participating in PvP.

5.The LLTS was overpowered in the first place. Rather than just preventing new ones from entering the game, they should have been removed altogether.

Now, a few of the proposed solutions:

A.Let the QL400 VEs (with 15% crit bonuses) drop, and keep existing LLTSs as they are. This solution would help if the problem was 1 or 4 above, but would make things worse if the problem was 2, 3 or 5. It would also decrease the value of existing LLTSs, which seems to be something we're trying to avoid.

B.Reduce the crit bonus on the LLTS, and for compensation reduce the init penalties/add a damage bonus/add to the AMS rating. This solution would help if the problem was 1, 4 or 5 above, but might make things worse if it was 2 or 3.

C.Reduce the crit bonus on the LLTS, and for compensation make the LLTS and the VE go into different HUD slots (so the bonuses/penalties would stack). I really like this one but don't think it would solve any of the problems listed earlier.


The point of my post is this: without knowing the reason for the nerf, any proposed solutions are just shots in the dark. Some of the players' suggestions may actually worsen the problem Funcom is trying to address. Without knowing the reason for the nerf, Funcom will have little support from the playerbase and will upset a large number of its customers (already seen in this thread).

Once you provide us with your logic, you should see more constructive responses. We may agree or disagree with your reasons, but at the very least we'll be able to provide better solutions.

Norton, 161 MA using LMA/UVC and 2% VE

[Cerber]

Why nerf?

My whole game play and all my chars are designed around mild LLTS 3-5% ones. How are you gona nerf them? Make them pathetic 1%? or 0.8?

I do not want to use any huge scopes I like using my aggro bar to enhance my effectivnes.

I really have very little ideas on how good the 'new' LLTs have to be.

No matter how you would try, you cant make them better then the Vision Enh. other wise people would just continue to whine.

Well here is a list of might be useful bonuses:

Make them add to your Deff. ratio (ala Def. rings of Luck)

Add a big bonus to inits.

Map navigation

Build in tools like HP, Nano Pool tellers.

Bahhh...i give up...dunno...if you want to nerf, just nerf it..i'll just bent and wait...

[_____________Opulent]

Well you would think I would have a lot to say about this but I don't. I'm tired of it. Tired of feeling like FC has my main printed out somewhere with a whole commitee devoted to think of ways to nerf him. I'm tired of arguing if these things are good or bad. Nerfs are never good. Outside of their potential to alienate more people then they appease, the unpredictablity they generate makes any sort of planning in game worthless. I didn't pay exhorbitant prices for my ellts's - I had them from before they were removed. I was saving for a +15 but I guess I can use the credits elsewhere. WS and EE are useful tradeskill for me. My shotgun probably has to go but I have been expecting that. The real problem I see is that I never am able to see a why behind any of these nerfs. So be it. It doesnt change anything for me as I'll play till I'm bored and then move on. It might just make that come a little sooner and when it does - no you can't have my stuff.

[_____________Outlauw]

Originally posted by Zed Dabucho
here is my idea

ql 200 scope

10% crit
+350 to aim shot
+200 to fling
+200 burst
+200 full auto
+180 ranged init (or the same as the T.I.M scope)
-2000 melee init (this will make this scope a range only scope.)
-2000 phys init (this will nerf the MA from using the scope.)
weopon range 45

if this scope is for range only and you guys are pissed about MA being over powered then do this. the scope will still be worth something and some people will be happy.

then make a tool for melee person. that is more setup for them. sense it is only far they get a good tool to use to. maybe make it a enf only tool or ma only tool. just a little something to help out the people that funcom jacked over.

just my 2 cents

hmmm... then they could just rename it

the Elite Custom Heavy Suppressor Scope and everyone would equip a CHS

[________________Jinx]

Why not just make em drop again? That way everyone will be happy.

I don't care if everyone can have one, I just want to be able to use my ithaca and not have to go back to the boring Home Defender or Vektor.

The LLTSs are by no means overpowered, my trader has trouble taking down a yellow mob with just his 13% scope and ithaca without any outside buffs. My MA could easily take 2-3 yellow mobs at a time without any outside buffs.

Sometimes I wonder if FC replaced the original game designers with some cheaper, dumber ones

[_____________Outlauw]

Originally posted by Quamander
Well How to keep an item worth 300m (yes they have been going for that latley) and nerf its most desirable atribute, well.

ql200 LLTS -

modify self aimed shot 400
modify self critical chance 8
modify self melee init -400
modify self nano init -200
modify self physical init -600
modify self ranged init -200
modify self weapon range 15
modify self exp modifier 5
modify self chemical damage modifier 20
modify self cold damage modifier 20
modify self energy damage modifier 20
modify self fire damage modifier 20
modify self melee damage modifier 20
modify self poison damage modifier 20
modify self projectile damage modifier 20
modify self radiation damage modifier 20
modify self runspeed 250
modify self alloff 30


This might keep it half as valueble?=p I stress the word half

At least these are very reasonable... without be game breaking

[_____________Outlauw]

Originally posted by nirax
i dont know what level you are but

modify self Add All off 10
modify self Add All def 10
modify self all damage types +10

is another way to say "nothing"

Gee.. that's kind of funny.. because people are willing to pay over 100mil and willing to not wear items that add 100+ hp's and NP, AC.. etc...etc

just to where a Globe of Clarity with 1% xtra crit... and only 2 of those three items...

[Aftergloe]

This is a copout....again. Everybody knows you are catering to the new players and those who have played for less than 6 months...You've been doing that for a long time, longer than you should have. I know your eyes are rolling as you read this, but I had to add my name to the list of disappointed old school AOers that have been playing your game since release. Give us some credit and some loyalty, we've given you ours.

Akashha/Raawwr/Ridemption.

[_____________Outlauw]

Originally posted by Womble
What about adding +1 atk and +1 def per ql, or if that is deemed too powerful let us adjust them with a screwdriver to choose between atk and def. They could be like mini-grid armour.

and now for my selfish suggestion:

+1 to the special attacks every 5 ql's so a q200 would do +40 FA, burst, fling, brawl etc, that would keep the value up..

hmmm... the difference between

800 evades

and

1000 evades is very overpowering....


same as the difference between 1000 attack and 1200 attack

[Zed Dabucho]

hell do what you guys want to do if you want to nerf the hell out of almost everyone in the game do. i am at the point of jumping ship anyway. even if SWG is as buggy as AO at less i will have some fun anyway. as for all my stuff. haha delete it all.


SCREW YOU GUYS. I'M GOING HOME =)

just leave the scope the way it is or make it so melee char. can not use it

here is my idea

ql 200 scope

10% crit
+350 to aim shot
+200 to fling
+200 burst
+200 full auto
+180 ranged init (or the same as the T.I.M scope)
-2000 melee init (this will make this scope a range only scope.)
-2000 phys init (this will nerf the MA from using the scope.)
weopon range 45

hell is the +200 all the fling burst and auto is to much then give it a XP bonus, or maybe a damage bonus.

if this scope is for range only and you guys are pissed about MA being over powered then do this. the scope will still be worth something and some people will be happy.

then make a tool for melee person. that is more setup for them. sense it is only far they get a good tool to use to. maybe make it a enf only tool or ma only tool. just a little something to help out the people that funcom jacked over.

just my 2 cents

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Ridemption
This is a copout....again. Everybody knows you are catering to the new players and those who have played for less than 6 months...You've been doing that for a long time, longer than you should have. I know your eyes are rolling as you read this, but I had to add my name to the list of disappointed old school AOers that have been playing your game since release. Give us some credit and some loyalty, we've given you ours.

Akashha/Raawwr/Ridemption.

You read my mind.. I agree 100%

Becareful they might suspend you like xeno.
He posted something close to this and they deleted it and suspened him..Neat, A.

[Jellobiafra]

Originally posted by Cz

On the BBI init fix being in 14.6? No, I'm not joking.

Will fixing the Manex Catastrophe from melee to ranged also be in 14.6?

[_____________Rolller]

Removal of the high crit modifier will have a trickle down effect. Once you remove the crit mod then certain weapons will no longer be viable ... players implant schemes will nolonger be viable .. Players IP schemes will no longer be viable.

Hope you (FC) don't think this is a little change. This is fundamental. Raise your true concerns. Right now we are just guessing it's MA's + UVC + LLTS. State as much and we can make suggestions and then the MA's can state thier cases.

Please move wisely ... removing things like this from the game will make alot of people bitter.

[aiwass777]

Originally posted by Fistofpaper



I disagree, you're not supposed to be on the same page as an MA, someone who has trained to strike vital areas with their hands, doing the same damage you do with a high firing glob of plasma or shotgun shells. We're ueber at dmg and finding critical areas, you're not. Live with it. We play a tanking steady dmg class instead of hiding behind one, not you. This is called balance, it's also called delineating a proffession for those that feel a doctor should hit like an enforcer, fly like an MP, create dragon armour like an engie/trader, and solo. HELLO! You're a doctor, get in the back and heal!

Actually, I'm not a doc, I'm a fixer. My primary weapon skill is green, this means that theoreticly I should be as well trained at killing people as a Martail Artist is (crit-buffs aside) from a flavor-text point of view.

Whatever.

The point I was trying to make is this: You are playing a game which you have no control over. If you lose something, tough luck. History has shown us that your loss means very little to Funcom. You should be prepared for the worse.

Regarding the economy, there are a few items that have a large negative impact on the economy at large. Grid Armor and Nullity Sphere discs, ELLTSes and 'special' loot (Shades of Lucubration, Heavily padded coats, etc). The cash-value of these items rise and the worth of credits drops and the effect is seen throughout the whole economy. This should be fixed and I feel that the nerf is a step in the right direction.

~Hoopspro

[Sephauri]

Well what can I say? I don't understand the reason for nerfing anything period. If it's about balance then find some way to balance the game around the scopes as most people are suggesting. Pure and simple nerfing them is a copout. And I really don't think you could do anything to the scopes that would make the owners of said scopes happy.

I'm so dissapointed but I guess like others not suprised by anything anymore

I just don't understand how Funcom can do things like this. Do they really want to screw their customers this much? Please feel free to share your reasons with us but I expect that's not going to happen

[_____________Shiggee]

K, Im still missing the point..
If you half the %crit you also have to half the init debuff or the llts will become useless.
If you half both the %crit and the init debuff then the llts and the VE will roughly be the same just the llts harder to equip. Again useless.
If you half the %crit and add damage or attack modifiers to equal it out it would change about nothing, so why the hell nerf it anyway?
Enlighten me please..

[Xeni]

For me it seems you(FC and others) want to nerf this item, because its a item that are not easy to get your hands on. I could made a very long list of other items that the same would aply to, and in same way as the ellts make the person having the item more "uber" compared to the ones not having it. But the case with the ellts, is that its very easy to see it advantages compared to others item, as you very easily see the damage people do to you or mobs, when they actually crits.

I say go ahead and nerf the ellts, but i dont think it would make the game that much more balanced, the inbalance would just be more invisble.

If you first are to do anything with scopes, just remove them all from game, new and old ones. I think that would be the best solution, make those profesions with crit specials ahve that, but not to much and those profesions without it, without increased crit chance.

Then to IPR points. I seen several say we need 2 IPR points if the scope is changed. Thats to little, as people also have put IP into other skills because of the scope. This applies to both Weaponskills and to other Inits the scope affects. The most easy would maybe to give us full IPR again, as you ended the last chance to full IPR without proper warning, making alot of people miss it with one or more of their characters.

Yes im the lucky owner of a 15% scope, i got it myself long time ago, long before their dropping was removed. As a agent the scope is the most precious i have atm, as it helps to compensate for the lack of the specials i have in longer fights and battles. Yes we have critnanos, but thats only good for a short fight evry 5th minute or more. Those occasions are rare for me now.

Edit: just some minor corrections

[________________Jinx]

Originally posted by Shiggee
K, Im still missing the point..
If you half the %crit you also have to half the init debuff or the llts will become useless.
If you half both the %crit and the init debuff then the llts and the VE will roughly be the same just the llts harder to equip. Again useless.
If you half the %crit and add damage or attack modifiers to equal it out it would change about nothing, so why the hell nerf it anyway?
Enlighten me please..

Heh, don't think for one second the stuff they add will be even half as good as the stuff they take away