Nerfing Low Light Targeting Scope

[_________Traumatizer]

Originally posted by Valroshe
how long you been playing a month maybe 2?

Just because you've been here longer than others don't make you more right...or wrong in that case

[_____________Outlauw]

Originally posted by Hoops
You paid 150+ million credits for your scope? Big deal. Look at all the people who bought up the old Arul Saba gems that became worthless with this patch. Look at all the people who have lost countless millions of credits worth of goods in server crashes or other bugs... They got no lovin', why should you?

It took Funcom a long time to get it into thier heads that this should have been done. All it took was one +15% scope, Ithaca wielding Martial Artist to convince me that Funcom made a big mistake... Now, Funcom needs to remove the MA self-only crit buffs to put us all on the same page.

Cz, don't add anything to the old scopes. These things are just another thing that has had a huge negative influence on the game's economy. Nerf Grid Armor and Nullity drops and institute some quests for these items to help drag the economy back to normal.

It's not called whining, it's called Game Balance.

~Hoopspro

So true... I've seen way to many MA's wieding guns lately... What's the point of having a martial artist class if they are the best at ranged weapons.... 15% Scope+24%+4% TTS+5% base+two GoC's 2% = an MA with 50% crit for over an hour!!!

Now give that MA a QL184 river series 6 and 750 assualt rifle skill... and he will hit for every 2 seconds and every other shot will land for 2958 damage

You want numbers to show an imbalance... there are numbers for you... in ten seconds you will be crit 2 1/2 times you will be dead in under 20 seconds if you are a non healing class and probably if you are a healing class... now if that MA has a dimach and a brawl and then equips that weapon you are already hurting before he even whips out his 50% chance at a 3k crit.

the same thing can be done with an ithica to add an aimed shot and a fling shot at the price of 300 damage on a crit.


agents using these weapons can also get advantagous periods.. as can traders. albeit both for shorter periods of time....

[Hiddenq]

what about making the scopes work kinda like grafts do. You right click on it to use, and it casts it's effect on you (taking up NCU) and locks a skill in the meantime. Make the deciding factor of the effect the crit chance, so that a higher crit bonus cast on the person would cancel it in the same way other buffs work now.

I think many peeps would agree to this change before nerfing something they have worked so hard to get...and I don't even have one or want one....unbiased opinion here

Quynton lv116 trader
advisor of Opposing Force

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Traumatizer


Just because you've been here longer than others don't make you more right...or wrong in that case

Well, i would belive an old school player would have a vast ammout of knowledge over a new player.

One point i do have .
Old school players have been here a long time .
So what!! If we have a rare item, we earned it. We lived threw the hardest days of AO. Really bad bugs and patches.. the list goes on. I understand some people sold there lowlights and somethings are a little unbalanced.

I don't believe a nerf will ever fix things.
Just return the old lowlights back to the game now that ma crit buffs have been addressed.

[___________Comador64]

Silly funcom...

[gnuman]

Taken from: http://www.themis-group.com/services.phtml

MMOG support is very different than the tech support traditionally provided for games. Successful support demands knowledge of the proper internal policies and procedures for dealing with many sticky situations, such as:

- When and how to ban or suspend exploiters;
- how, when and what information should be communicated to the players about features and patch progress;
- how to handle harassment charges of one player against another; when should lost items be replaced;
- how, when, and even if to ‘nerf’ a character class, and what and when to tell the players about it, especially when hundreds of player hours might be voided;
- and many more.

Hehe, I see a lot of problems Funcom currently have in that list. Maybe you should consider re-hire that company?

[___________Firedrake]

The only real suggestion I have for you to take to the designers is NOT to go thru with this nerf. Have you any idea whatsoever of how sick players are getting of this constant nerfing? If they go thru with it, I'd then suggest you ask them what to say to players who ask why should they bother to work hard for ANY piece of equipment when at any moment it can be nerfed due to the whining of a handful or crybaby PvPers.

I swear, it's getting harder and harder to keep having fun in this game. I don't know how many more of these senseless nerfs I can stomach.

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Noer
Taken from: http://www.themis-group.com/services.phtml



Hehe, I see a lot of problems Funcom currently have in that list. Maybe you should consider re-hire that company?

your right noer, so right
/terminate

[_________Divinecross]

Okay start off by saying i'm doctor and dont really have good range init skills so I choose to trade very costly item for a 13% instead of a 15% because didn't like the extra -100 init from the 15%. I use a shotgun one that works pretty well with the minimal of a 10% scope. Now I hear about this scope nerf saying that my old ellts 13% going be nerfed. My scope is ql 177 if the critical % on my scope were nerfed to meet the scale between ql 1-250 VE then my critical % will probably to around 6-7% which something I would be very unhappy with and just use a ql 250 VE with a 8% chance. I would want some IPR's right there so could reset the skill. A lot of used lower than 15% scopes so wouldn't feel init -'s so bad but we didn't want to use 8% because they were too low.

Suggestion 1 : keep all LLTS critical % the same % as the nerfed ones(8% maxium) example a ql 150 ellts would have 8% and so would a ql 200 ellts etc

Suggestion 2 : Less disadvantages in inits. Example as you go up in ql's in ellts you will find less - init's. example a ql 150 ellts would give say -400 init while a ql 200 would give say -200 init

Suggestion 3: Damage mods. Give damage modifiers in the ellts. Not like +12 damage but something like +80 for ql 200 ones and so forth to scale. Make the damage mod worth something.

Suggestion 4: range / as mods. Increase the range mods and aimshot mods on old scopes.


I am fairly unhappy about my scope being nerfed after the millions in items I spent to get it. If log on after the nerf find that my ql 177 scope has a 6% critical and now some crappy mods. I will want 2 IPR points and 150 mill in credits to make for the money I wasted. I will be fairly happy and consider my Ellts a vableable item given the suggestions I listed put into it.

[__________Nivenyrral]

Had an idea moved it to the improvement thread here:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=55706

[gnuman]

Originally posted by Nivenyrral
OK Cz, I have an idea that will make the scopes still worth the money people paid for them, and you only have to change a couple of things. First reduce the init penalty on them, and second, change the HUD slot they go in. Effectively, make it so that you can get the bonus for both a VE and a LLTS, and lower the init penalty on the LLTS enough so that the total init penalty for wearing both a VE and a LLTS is roughly equivalent to the penalty for wearing a LLTS now. I think that would preserve their usefullness and their value.

err... why change it then? You have same amount of crit. A lot bigger range buff and an insane aimed shot buff. Sounds like a crazy to my ears. lol

[_____________Joaquin]

Guys get over it...FC is Nerfing them. Its there Game they can do what they like you dont have to stand for it but then again you dont have to play it. I have a 10% ELLTS so it gets nerfed to 8% big deal stop crying about it and start thinking of stuff that will make it worth using them.

FC are listening to you....if you do good here then maybe they will listen to some of your other suggestions.

[Sparkyd]

Originally posted by Fistofpaper

I disagree, you're not supposed to be on the same page as an MA, someone who has trained to strike vital areas with their hands, doing the same damage you do with a high firing glob of plasma or shotgun shells. We're ueber at dmg and finding critical areas, you're not. Live with it. We play a tanking steady dmg class instead of hiding behind one, not you. This is called balance, it's also called delineating a proffession for those that feel a doctor should hit like an enforcer, fly like an MP, create dragon armour like an engie/trader, and solo. HELLO! You're a doctor, get in the back and heal!

Of course! How stupid of me. You need a targetting scope to punch someone better. You have to punch the vital regions of someone better.

Ok, fine. But then, MA's shouldn't be allowed to equip any weapons. PERIOD. Or if you do, this will automatically NOT allow you to cast UVC on yourself.

[RVWinkle]

I think I'm going to be lost in the sea of posts here but I wanted to point out that the coming init fix is going to have a significant negative effect on scopes already. Something tells me that nobody is going to wear a scope after the next patch and the developers are just going to put a small damage bonus on the old scopes.

Of course a shotty MA is still viable.

[labrutte]

CZ you hide behind the " give me a suggestion for the change of the llts" but there is no suggestion !!!
You nerf my scope so my ithaca will suck cause it does crappy damage in pvm or pvp without crit, same for my x9, i have raised blue skill to max and i will lost all these IP cause you nerf the game !!!

I play for one year and finally i have nothing more than the guy who begins one month ago (except some lvl more).

So cause some people cry in pvp you nerf my elts in pvm too
Yesterday you nerf my bracer, today my llts and tomorrow it will be my heals ???? (btw i'm doc)

So here is some suggestion :
2 ip reset point cause i have raise 2 trade skill i never use to 500+ to equip my scope
1ip reset to reset shotgun cause it will suck and you will only see agent or MA with shotgun after this
Thousand of apologies for this arbitrary nerf !!!!!


But we will have nothing all of this or even nothing valuable cause funcom nerf and does nothing good finally





Lachaude doc 151 rk2
Labonne engin 133 rk2
labrutte enf 125 rk2
letruand trad 93
and many more

[Voorg]

No comment on wether the nerf is valid or not)

Why do llts and ellts users get compensated in this nerf?

Yes they cost alot of credits, that is just time spend collecting money.

Everyone whos bracers got nerfed, got nothing in return and the amount of time lost in finding them was easily comparible to lost credits. We spent weeks hunting.

[Wobble]

What about adding +1 atk and +1 def per ql, or if that is deemed too powerful let us adjust them with a screwdriver to choose between atk and def. They could be like mini-grid armour.

and now for my selfish suggestion:

+1 to the special attacks every 5 ql's so a q200 would do +40 FA, burst, fling, brawl etc, that would keep the value up..

[Skulldawg]

ok i must suggest if you do nerf the crit %
all classes should get a crit% buff = to UVC
why would you guys nerf something after you said ok these scopes are not gonna drop anymore so this limits them in circulation..sure a lot of old players have them but so what?
they are still the most prized item in game. even so a lot of new players may not have one.. but it's not impossible for them to obtain one if they can trade/buy it off a old player. nerfing these scopes is not a good idea due to many old players that have supported you =FC for well over a year now will probly quit since you are taking the fun out of the game for them..so what if some ppl have a few old scopes they have been with you FC for a long time and i think its due for them to have an item which isn't easy to obtain. it may be a disadvantage to the new players but even so.. these players have spent their money and time on you FC
and the way you repay them is to take away their prized possesion? this is just ridiculous i really hope you guys think hard about this before doing so cause this is a very good reason for us not to invest our time and money on this game which we have paid and spent time on as of the start if not close to it
every person without something they want will cry about like a child but hey thats a jealous young mind for you and life is full of them if you do give in to them well..then we prolly won't support your game further since you take the fun out of it for us
so i really suggest you give all classes a crit buff = to UVC or just put the ql 400 VE into the game for these n00bies
/adjust
/signing out

[labrutte]

CZ will funcom will do something for all the gun who depend on crit to be useful ?
Like the pistol raid 9X or ithaca or river serie 6 and many other ....
Now all ranged user will have an X3.

You don't like diversity you want to be like everyone in the game ?
Got an X3, an albrecht TA and come to AO

[_____________Condaan]

I very much oppose this change on principle. You (funcom) stated/implied that LLTS would not be changed/removed, and now you are reversing that decision. While I understand that in MMOGs it’s a living world, and that as a situation changes, RARELY previous statements must be contradicted, for the good of the game. I don’t believe this is one of those situations, though, and once again, you risk alienating your longest (thus best in terms of cash flow) term customers.

LLTS by their nature, have negatives associated with the benefits they provide. Negative Inits have a pretty significant effect on attack speed and agg/def settings as it is. This will become even more apparent, if the changes to Inits discussed in other forums are implemented. Namely that buffs/implants/item mods/trickledown affect recharge in addition to attack speed. Before you seriously consider nerfing LLTS, please implement the ‘bug fix’ for inits, as it will have significant impact on the viability of LLTS vs. VEs.

All of that said, if a nerf is coming, at least provide value for value. We all know that players, especially high levels, place a very large value on crits. There are many reasons for this, in PVM and PVP, but if you are going to remove a portion of the critical chance from LLTS, at a bare minimum give us other things that we value in this item. What do people 125 or 150+ value? All Off/Def is good. Max HP is good (though this doesn’t follow the theme of an LLTS). Stat mods are ‘ok’. Distinguishing visuals are ‘ok’ (may not be possible with LLTS). Plus all damage types is ‘ok’ (has to be significant, +10 dmg is pointless at this level). Evades are good. Reflect is good. Mods to special attacks are ‘ok’ for some, good for others. Exp bonus is very nice for some, useless for others. When it comes down to it, you can’t keep everyone happy. But, if you at least put some reasonable benefits on the LLTS to make it more valuable than a similar % VE, then folks will probably deal with it and move on.

Would I trade a:
15% ELLTS with ~neg800 mods

for

8% ELLTS with ~neg600 mods
+120 all Off
+120 all Def
+5 to all stats

I’d probably be ‘ok’ with a change like that. Would everyone? No, but at it’s better than just getting 300m creds and no scope, heh. Adding to All Off would help to offset the loss of damage from crits. Adding All Def would help me survive a bit more, to inflict more damage. A few points in stats trickles down all over the place, and is marginally helpful all around.

Basically it comes down to this…give us value for value. Just remember, people who use high QL LLTS value crits VERY highly, or we would have just blitzed a ql240-250 VE, and traded our scopes for some other nice item, heh.

Condaan