18.0.4 Update Notes

[Means]

Means have stated in a different thread (like 2 min ago) that the 36k nuke was not intended and will be fixed asap. The smaller DoT was intended though.

Stalker!

[Windguaerd]

The 36k nukes is a bug that will be fixed in the next update. Not intended. Seems like we might actually get to focus on more important issues in the near future

The cause of the nukes are reflects (ie: someone hits you and you reflect some damage back on them). IF possible do not use these in this instance and the nuke should not affect you. For those of you without this option this issue will be corrrected as soon as possible.

Thanks for the clarification Means! this puts my mind at ease, and probably many others who got unpleasantly surprised by this unexpected issue.

[Adross420]

I totally agree with LE calm, I'd be happy just to be able to calm aliens with it and leave it at that. I don't see where it overpowers in any way however just so much potential for exploit is where the problem comes in.

As far as stuns, I don't see where this is a problem in PVM. 220 crat in almost complete endgame setup. Going around and soloing content that is years old is pretty easy particularly with stuns and without. With newer stuff they dont' allow you do do anything you could do w/out them. I've teamed another toon of mine and hit things like technomaster db encounter just to test the waters on newer content meant to be teamed and stuns don't make a bit of difference, the boss mobs rip through pets pretty much instantly and me right behind that, not to mention most of the strats prevent any kind of soloing.

They do make small teams more effective but a stun is damage mitigation just like anything else(reflects,absorbs,hots,etc) and combined with these it does make a group large or small very potent.

The flaw is in the content though. The difficulty of the content does not compensate for the boosts characters have had over the years from new nanos, perks,gear, etc. Left and Right hand hit me harder than technomaster does and those mobs are ancient. I land my nanos on new content first cast almost every time. In arid rift I dont' even have to bother calming because the aliens miss so much and I'm not in full AI armor.

In my experience it doesn't seem that classes need to be balanced against one another but that the content needs to be kicked up a notch to compensate more for the increased power of players. Overall it will cause a lot less heartache to not have to nerf classes but still recreate the challenge in this game. Developers often seem to lack the forsight of the determination and capability of players and then the players later get punished for it with class nerfs.

Content could also cater more to the diff classes so that all classes are more essential rather than doc/tank/dps method.

Why not have some encounters where tons of high dd low hp adds spawn to make an NT useful?
Hard nuking bosses to make Nano shutdown coveted again.
Hostile nano programs that eat NCU to make fixers come in handy.
Tradeskilling objectives in encounters that would bring in a new angle for the tradeskilling classes.

As far as the 12 man RI, please turn it into a true 12man RI.
So much potential here.

Forcing us to fight all three at one time is a start.
Morph could happen more often and always to person on top of hate list.(tank)
Towers could spawn way more often.
The encounter could be timed.
AoE nukes would be a nice touch.

[sjefstab]

Had a wild misstry today.
After failing with 2 teams and re entering and having half RI killed insta again and again, I came to realize we have been spoiled for too long.

People keep asking for harder challenges, and when we finally get it, some go bitchin about fc failing totally, making it too hard.

People need to rethink strategy now. Rambo tactics was cool on movies and for a while in ao.

Anyhow, wasted 4 hrs raidlock on that try after doc gave up.
(not as a result of nukes, plain old owned by mobs)
In adition to this, after using so long to "fix" this, it results in many players being done camping this aswel, and the rest are now stuck LFT on hour without end, finally getting team and maybe succeed for an average of 5% chance of mixture dropping.

ONTOP of this, farming spirits in there really criples and delays the whole procedure compared to others
As a shade needs to loot more than one xan spirit for each slot, comparing with symb professions.
Often with more than 1 shade in team and crappy drops, they are forced to roll on spirits or mixture/cloth, and more frequent "loose" in one way or another more than the next soldier/doc etc.

This was no nag or bitchin, just stating the obvious.
again thanx for the shiney neuw spiwits.

[Ayria]

Removing the calm from that instance (and others) was never a long term plan but a quick band until we could get a more robust fix in. This fix seems to be working well. Now just one more small problem with the instance and we can leave it relatively alone.

We ARE eager to address the perceived issues with all professions. This was not about class balance but making the last LOX instance work remotely as it should.

To be honest Means, it should have been a long term plan. You and I, and everyone else, knows that PvM is pathetically easy. Being able to trivially dismiss bosses doesn't help this issue one bit. Many professions, not just Crats, toolsets make a mockery of PvM; you can't deny this.

And it does appear, with situations like this, that you (Funcom, not you Means specifically) favour some professions over others. Removing the use of (J)LMN from Elder Hall fixed the issue, you could have left it (taking the easy quick path you take with everything else) but instead you reinstated it's use in the instance having fixed the issue in another way.

What does this show to the community? Crats cry nerf, they whine and complain that your easy bandaid fix ruins their fun etc etc, and look a more robust solution is in place and their toolset restored. While other professions fall victim to the bandaid syndrome all the time, losing parts of their toolset (ie snares, ubt, roots, HoTs, evades etc) due to resistance or immunity and nothing is done about it.

Is it because these other professions have adapted and just delt with it? Is it because they didn't whine like 2 month old babies? (I can't use anything older then my nieces cause they don't whine as much as Crats did on this issue)

Being eager to, and doing so, are two vastly different things. I am eager to make millions of dollars and never have to worry about bills again, doing so is not going to happen.

You want Elder Hall to be as intended, make it a 12 man instance, don't make it easy by returning the use of "lolIwin@PvM" nanos. 2 people can do a 12 man instance and you talk about returning crats toolkit as the task that makes it (more) as intended? Seriously? You just made it easier again, now they can use less people on average. What next? Reports with FRAPS of it being soloed?

You want Elder Hall to be as intended, make it require 12 people.

[Hacre]

To be honest Means, it should have been a long term plan. You and I, and everyone else, knows that PvM is pathetically easy. Being able to trivially dismiss bosses doesn't help this issue one bit. Many professions, not just Crats, toolsets make a mockery of PvM; you can't deny this.

And it does appear, with situations like this, that you (Funcom, not you Means specifically) favour some professions over others. Removing the use of (J)LMN from Elder Hall fixed the issue, you could have left it (taking the easy quick path you take with everything else) but instead you reinstated it's use in the instance having fixed the issue in another way.

What does this show to the community? Crats cry nerf, they whine and complain that your easy bandaid fix ruins their fun etc etc, and look a more robust solution is in place and their toolset restored. While other professions fall victim to the bandaid syndrome all the time, losing parts of their toolset (ie snares, ubt, roots, HoTs, evades etc) due to resistance or immunity and nothing is done about it.

Is it because these other professions have adapted and just delt with it? Is it because they didn't whine like 2 month old babies? (I can't use anything older then my nieces cause they don't whine as much as Crats did on this issue)

Being eager to, and doing so, are two vastly different things. I am eager to make millions of dollars and never have to worry about bills again, doing so is not going to happen.

You want Elder Hall to be as intended, make it a 12 man instance, don't make it easy by returning the use of "lolIwin@PvM" nanos. 2 people can do a 12 man instance and you talk about returning crats toolkit as the task that makes it (more) as intended? Seriously? You just made it easier again, now they can use less people on average. What next? Reports with FRAPS of it being soloed?

You want Elder Hall to be as intended, make it require 12 people.

Methinks you haven't done Elder Halls since patch. So be quiet until you have. No amount of (J)LMN is going to make that a 2-3 man place. Unless you reckon you can splat 2 bosses in 45s, with 3 people.

[Ayria]

Methinks you haven't done Elder Halls since patch. So be quiet until you have. No amount of (J)LMN is going to make that a 2-3 man place. Unless you reckon you can splat 2 bosses in 45s, with 3 people.

If Means' desire and intent is to make Elder Halls "as intended" (read: 12 man instance as advertised) then he needs to either get rid of things that make it to easy, like (J)LMN, or make it so hard that it's irrelevant.

So it comes down to this: does having (J)LMN mean you can do it with less then 12 people?

If so then having it ruins the instance and the only reason it's there is not for balance or making the instance (more) "as intended" but to appease Crats because they whined like babies.

[Hacre]

If Means' desire and intent is to make Elder Halls "as intended" (read: 12 man instance as advertised) then he needs to either get rid of things that make it to easy, like (J)LMN, or make it so hard that it's irrelevant.

So it comes down to this: does having (J)LMN mean you can do it with less then 12 people?

If so then having it ruins the instance and the only reason it's there is not for balance or making the instance (more) "as intended" but to appease Crats because they whined like babies.

I'm dying to know how a FORTY FIVE SECOND calm, makes any boss encounter doable with less people (unless of course it can be exploited, but exploits get/got fixed).

Anyway, a lot of ifs there, so as I said, methinks you haven't done the instance since patch (or at all?) so until you have, you're making yourself look rather silly commenting on things you haven't experienced. Calming one or all of the bosses for 45s, isn't magically making an encounter that lasts far longer than that, any easier.

[Ayria]

I'm dying to know how a FORTY FIVE SECOND calm, makes any boss encounter doable with less people (unless of course it can be exploited, but exploits get/got fixed).

Anyway, a lot of ifs there, so as I said, methinks you haven't done the instance since patch (or at all?) so until you have, you're making yourself look rather silly commenting on things you haven't experienced. Calming one or all of the bosses for 45s, isn't magically making an encounter that lasts far longer than that, any easier.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=552342

Look through that thread and see how many people it takes to do Elder Halls. It is plain to see that it still does not require 12 people to complete, despite Means' intent to make it as intended. That means that the "fix" of (J)LMN didn't make this instance any harder, how much easier it made it is quite frankly irrelevant.

The fact remains that this change, returning (J)LMN to use, was not a step towards balance or making the instance how it was supposed to be, it was a fix to satisfy the crying crats.

[Hacre]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=552342

Look through that thread and see how many people it takes to do Elder Halls. It is plain to see that it still does not require 12 people to complete, despite Means' intent to make it as intended. That means that the "fix" of (J)LMN didn't make this instance any harder, how much easier it made it is quite frankly irrelevant.

The fact remains that this change, returning (J)LMN to use, was not a step towards balance or making the instance how it was supposed to be, it was a fix to satisfy the crying crats.

Sigh.



The temporary nerf to LMN was to work around an exploit of hiding a boss in the side rooms, until more complex and permanent changes could be put into place.

In that thread, I see that it takes on average 10 well equipped people, so one could say it will take an average pickup of 12 people. Point is, it can no longer be 2-3 manned and none of the reason it only needs 10 now has anything to do with (J)LMN at all. So stop with your Crat hate and your conspiracy theories.

[Ayria]

Sigh.



The temporary nerf to LMN was to work around an exploit of hiding a boss in the side rooms, until more complex and permanent changes could be put into place.

In that thread, I see that it takes on average 10 well equipped people, so one could say it will take an average pickup of 12 people. Point is, it can no longer be 2-3 manned and none of the reason it only needs 10 now has anything to do with (J)LMN at all. So stop with your Crat hate and your conspiracy theories.

Hardly Crat hate, don't jump to conclusions Hacre both of us know you're smarter then that. The situation with (J)LMN and Crats is just the most recent example and the one thus most pertinent to use when making a point.

The point being, stated in my post towards Means, if he wants to make Elder Halls as was originally intended and advertised then adding in tools, however downplayed their power may be, that makes things easier isn't going in that direction. You cannot deny that PvM is to easy, giving in to Crats asking for it to continue to be easy or be easy again isn't going in that direction either.

Then the idea that they eager to address the perceived issues of all professions. Again Crat is just the latest example, last time it was Soldier (RI being intended etc); the point here is that they always seem to leave out a select group of professions while the favorites just have to whine and get what they want.

How long have Fixers complained? Ranged Adv? Agent? MA?

How long did Crats have to complain before a "nerf" to their toolset was thrown back in game? You and I both know that Funcom almost always takes the easiest solution. Clinic timed locked comes to mind recently. They could have left it not working in Elder Halls to get the same effect they have now; but they didn't, they took the extra effort to be able to put a Crat tool back in game.

Can you name another situation like that? Where another professions tool was removed to fix an exploit and was later returned once the exploit was fixed in a different way, can you name one?

[Hacre]

Then the idea that they eager to address the perceived issues of all professions. Again Crat is just the latest example, last time it was Soldier (RI being intended etc); the point here is that they always seem to leave out a select group of professions while the favorites just have to whine and get what they want.

Get what they want??

Where's AS in at least one of my hand or eye symbs? Or a viable and supported PvP weapon? Buffable Carlo? A non loltastic way to remove UBT from my pets? Working crowd control (the reason LMN got as much uproar as it did, fyi, because it was the only reliable part of the damn toolset)?

The "Crat hate" wasn't a hard conclusion to jump to either, with all the crat this, crat that, whiney baby Crats, comparing Crats to your niece or nephew or whatever. So don't now act as if I made some huge leap, because we both know I didn't.

If nerfing LMN was the only solution to solving the exploit, or if the instance was designed specifically so it didn't work (ie, it didn't work from the outset) then it'd be a whole different kettle of fish, that would be reasonable, obviously. You can't act surprised when stealth nerfs get spotted and the affected get all pissed.

Hell if LMN had the sort of duration that regular calms do, or was spammable/refreshable, I'd be right there with you because yes, it would make things retardedly easy. I'm even all for making raid bosses (Beast, AC, DX etc) immune to stun procs, but then everyone who knows me also knows I think they should be PvM only anyway. However stealth nerfing a tool that if not exploited or exploitable doesn't make or break an encounter, it's just useful, isn't going to be accepted by the ones on the receiving end.

Hell, look how unhappy Agents are with what a pain in the ass AS is in PvM. It's part of your toolset and imo you very much should be able to use it "as normal" in PvM.

[Ayria]

Hell, look how unhappy Agents are with what a pain in the ass AS is in PvM. It's part of your toolset and imo you very much should be able to use it "as normal" in PvM.

Yes, and look at where we are. Same place we were. Where's the rush patch to give us our toolkit? Where's the eagerness to help us in PvM?

Far far away from their eagerness to help Crats and other professions that's for sure.

And again, please if you can, name one professions toolkit that was nerfed due to an exploit and was later returned because the exploit was fixed in a different way.

[Hacre]

And again, please if you can, name one professions toolkit that was nerfed due to an exploit and was later returned because the exploit was fixed in a different way.

This is relevant why? Name one profession's toolkit Means has nerfed to fix an exploit and NOT later fixed in a better manner?

[Ayria]

This is relevant why? Name one profession's toolkit Means has nerfed to fix an exploit and NOT later fixed in a better manner?

It's relevant because that's what this situation is. Crat tool was nerfed to fix an exploit and was restored later, far as I can recall that's not happened to anyone or anything else that has been lost/changed due to exploits. Everyone else just deals with not having their tool(s) work in certain areas; crats whined and got it restored.

If this is the start of Funcom really fixing exploits then great, but until such time as that becomes self evident (not evident because someone says that's what they're going to do) it is hard to say that this reversion wasn't because of crats whining and Funcom playing favorites.

Plenty of other professions are out on their asses, waiting forever, for their toolkit to be viable in general. I'm not seeing the effort on Funcom's part to rectify that, what I see is one tool in the Crat kit in one playfield vs 2 mobs was taken away and then returned after an uproar, while things like RI, GTH etc stay as is.

This is eagerness to balance the professions? Eagerness to help those that need it? Crats don't need help in PvM, end of story. Not even you can say they do Hacre (PvP is a different story). And yet, instead of helping others in PvM, they help out Crats. That doesn't show eagerness to balance the game out and make it more enjoyable for all, that shows eagerness to play favorites.

[Graftmage]

Anyway, a lot of ifs there, so as I said, methinks you haven't done the instance since patch (or at all?)

Who would want a lowbie gimp in their team?

[Windguaerd]

Crat's toolset is OP, period. I have a 220/70/26 crat, I can pwn about 99% of mobs, the only exceptions are the Ananasi Hands/Scary Spider probably and perhaps LOTV.

Crat is meant to be crowd control, if you have 20 mobs, crat can calm/snare 19 so the ONE you're going after can be pulled aside from the other mobs and taken down.

However if you're facing 2 or more bosses at one time, you shoudn't be able to calm any of them so the encounter turns into a joke of a fight.

The devs obviously have created encounters meant to be challenging, the mistake with the uber crat nano can easily be fixed, make some mobs uncalmable, not ALL, but enough that you can't just go calm/calm/calm, pull, easy fight anymore.

I am satisfied how the devs fixed the 12-Man instance, I don't however like the period of time they took to fix it. What should have happened is the immediate block entrance to the instance until it was 100% fixed from the moment it was known to them that is was not working as intended. P

People will take advantage of an easy instance, not their fault, they can't avoid it because they fear once it's fixed there won't be enough people to do it with (a reasonable fear). The fault and responsibility is the devs, and Means as the head honcho, we knew eventually he was going to make a mistake, he is human.

Hopefully the experience will lead to the devs not allowing an instance which is not working properly, to be removed immediately to avoid problems.

[Hacre]

However if you're facing 2 or more bosses at one time, you shoudn't be able to calm any of them so the encounter turns into a joke of a fight.

Ok, Mr Crat.

Please enlighten us all, as to why you and everyone else...

Are ignoring the fact...

That...

Calming a boss mob for 45s turns nothing into an easy joke at all!

It is FORTY FIVE (45) seconds, 3 quarters of a minute. If a calm of that short a duration allows you to go from start to loot without engaging that mob, then the encounter is a joke to begin with and NOTHING to do with the Crat calm.

You and others keep commenting like the mob can be kept calmed indefinitely, or for at least as long as a regular 7+ minute calm. Why? Why are you continuing to make out like a boss mob being immobile for 45s in an encounter that takes LONGER than 45s suddenly makes the instance go from OMGHARD to LOLOLOLEASYPEASY?

I mean really, did you roll and level a Crat, just so you can carry more weight when you strut around claiming that Crats are OP due to some weird hatred towards them?

I like how you try and be all knowledgeable about Crats, then make claims like "I can pwn about 99% of all mobs, the only exceptions being <insert mobs that a Crat can actually solo here>".

[saxobul3]

Complaints about how Malaisse lands but UBT doesn't? A calm that was created to be able to calm everything, although people don't like it, should do what it says. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't complain if you got right hand agg and a crat calmed it It helps people re-establish agg, but does not make the new instance necessarily easier. A 45 second calm with a 10 minute lockout/mob immunity seems fair to me...somebody would probably hit the mob anyway lol...

[sjefstab]

Still no working resolve to the increasing ninjaloots.
RI was GREAT idea aslong raid is less that 36 players.
If so it needs to swap team members for each pande/42 etc winner.

Recomend more time fixing this and enable possibility to ban, less time on making new stuff.