Friday with Means - April 3rd, 2009

[Hacre]

You really need to consider adding something to the loot table that will entice docs to do the instance once they have everything. Maybe some kind of bounty item they can turn in for creds or a doc only stim that will temporary increase their DoT damage or a temp increase in mc to help land the DoTs in the first place.

It is already hard to get docs now. Once the instance is set to it's final form there wont be many docs left needing it. It will be even harder to find one that isnt locked when you are free to do it.

Also add to the mix that this instance can be done by 4 (probably can do with 2 if you have a lot of patience) people of the right prof, many 'unneeded' profs will have an even harder time getting their loot.

Forced to agree here. Lots of teams hanging around outside the instance now, waiting on locked down docs.

I wholeheartedly expect docs to start charging at some point, lol.

[Nuclearsmeg]

Forced to agree here. Lots of teams hanging around outside the instance now, waiting on locked down docs.

I wholeheartedly expect docs to start charging at some point, lol.

Hmmm...may have to get my Doc through Arid Rift and Neretva now

[Berinda]

I have a doc, but haven't finished Arid Rift because it's a pain to solo due to low damage. 50% heal eff and capped breed -nano cost sure is popular with teams, though. So, no 12 man for that toon. I'm sure there's a lot of other endgame docs in a similar situation. What's happening here is what's happened to docs all along: no one wants to help them get through levelling to access content/meeting reqs to do content, because more damage is the better option, but everyone always wants them to doc random quest X or do raid Y for no real gain.

The solution isn't better loot to entice them to come back or reduce their lockout timer - the solution is team docs instead of going "nowai we dont need a doc lolololol moar damage" when it comes to things like Arid Rift, Inferno missions and everything else you feel a doc is a burden for.

[Ayria]

I have a doc, but haven't finished Arid Rift because it's a pain to solo due to low damage. 50% heal eff and capped breed -nano cost sure is popular with teams, though. So, no 12 man for that toon. I'm sure there's a lot of other endgame docs in a similar situation. What's happening here is what's happened to docs all along: no one wants to help them get through levelling to access content/meeting reqs to do content, because more damage is the better option, but everyone always wants them to doc random quest X or do raid Y for no real gain.

The solution isn't better loot to entice them to come back or reduce their lockout timer - the solution is team docs instead of going "nowai we dont need a doc lolololol moar damage" when it comes to things like Arid Rift, Inferno missions and everything else you feel a doc is a burden for.

I have to agree, I gave up on my doc because I could never, ever, find a team. Any time I was on LFT nothing came of it, if I'd advertise on OOC or talk with people face to face it was always "we have pocket" or "we don't need doc we have enough heals for xxxx"

[Klodovik]

Forced to agree here. Lots of teams hanging around outside the instance now, waiting on locked down docs.

I wholeheartedly expect docs to start charging at some point, lol.

Time to boost MPs.

[Windguaerd]

I have a lot of respect for you Means, but this time you have made a pretty big mistake.

The moment you were made aware of how easy the 12-man instance was, in my personal opinion you should have made a server-wide 10 minute announcement for downtime just to close the entrance to the instance. Then bring the servers back up with the apology.

Right now, it's too late.

Tons of 5/6 man teams are taking advantage of the easy cake instance now, and at the speed things are going either you go with it, or when it is fixed there will be no doctors or tanks available because they already have the loot needed.

My only hope is that the loot table is more than empty ncu's, cells, symbs, spirits and gems... otherwise it's "game over" for that instance because nobody is going to want to go and do a harder version of it (from when they got their loot) for no reason.

Sure, org mates will help you, but that shouldn't be a factor on the existence of the instance. You should be able to find 11 other people to raid with you, but I fear that by the time the instance is the challenge that was meant to be... there won't be enough people interested to do it on a regular basis.

So... we have no choice but join the "easy cake" teams or risk not being able to find teams later on to get the loot we need.

That is how things are, once most high levels get all they need from an instance, they won't go back unless a friend or guildmate convinces them to help out.

If the loot table drops twice as many items, but it's doesn't have more of what I already listed, then the only possible enticement for high levels to go back to it is more phatz... which means if it wasn't planned for it, more balance issues and whatnot.

A headache of a problem with what was meant to be the crown jewel of the booster pack.

I know it's been only a few days, but this weekend I've heard of people actually setting their alarms to wake up so they can farm the instance every 4 hours with a single team!

I hope the fix is made very very soon.

[Grim-One]

Maybe an item to upgrade beast armor should be added to make people go back once the zone has been fixed.

[Mikenche]

I have a doc, but haven't finished Arid Rift because it's a pain to solo due to low damage. 50% heal eff and capped breed -nano cost sure is popular with teams, though. So, no 12 man for that toon. I'm sure there's a lot of other endgame docs in a similar situation. What's happening here is what's happened to docs all along: no one wants to help them get through levelling to access content/meeting reqs to do content, because more damage is the better option, but everyone always wants them to doc random quest X or do raid Y for no real gain.

The solution isn't better loot to entice them to come back or reduce their lockout timer - the solution is team docs instead of going "nowai we dont need a doc lolololol moar damage" when it comes to things like Arid Rift, Inferno missions and everything else you feel a doc is a burden for.

If you think Arid Rift is hard to solo, try Neretva B. There are three towers you need to have down at the same time, they have around half a million HP and respawn in around three minutes. Good luck doing 400k+ damage per minute solo with any prof, or even in a small team. I tried it with a friend as doc + trader, both of which are reasonably well equipped, and we could not get even the second tower down before the first one had respawned. And this was supposed to be soloable... Or maybe I'm mistaken and only Arid is soloable, while Neretva was meant to be a full team affair?

[Brampfine]

4 player to complete Area B
2 kill the left tower at the same time as the other two kill the right tower and after sync. kill run to the middle and kill them to run behind the disabled fence.

[Kaylinne]

If you think Arid Rift is hard to solo, try Neretva B. There are three towers you need to have down at the same time, they have around half a million HP and respawn in around three minutes. Good luck doing 400k+ damage per minute solo with any prof, or even in a small team. I tried it with a friend as doc + trader, both of which are reasonably well equipped, and we could not get even the second tower down before the first one had respawned. And this was supposed to be soloable... Or maybe I'm mistaken and only Arid is soloable, while Neretva was meant to be a full team affair?

Funny, I did B on my fixer several times with only one person and didnt notice they had that much HP. Did something change with new patch?

[Mikenche]

Funny, I did B on my fixer several times with only one person and didnt notice they had that much HP. Did something change with new patch?

"With only one person" meaning one besides yourself? What prof?

The HP is a very rough estimate based on my guess on our damage output (around 150k per minute) and the time it took to kill a single one (3-4 minutes). I dunno if they've changed something, but it was simply impossible to get even two towers down at the same time with a 216 pistol doc and a 217 melee trader. Not sure if this was in 18.0.1 or 18.0.2.

[Kaylinne]

"With only one person" meaning one besides yourself? What prof?

The HP is a very rough estimate based on my guess on our damage output (around 150k per minute) and the time it took to kill a single one (3-4 minutes). I dunno if they've changed something, but it was simply impossible to get even two towers down at the same time with a 216 pistol doc and a 217 melee trader. Not sure if this was in 18.0.1 or 18.0.2.

I was with a soldier. And though he had to wait a bit for me to finish my side, I killed my tower without any problem with my fixer. I dont have any dd meters and dont pay attention to my damage output but I dont remember taking me that long to kill single tower. And none ever respawned for sure.
Maybe they did change something, dunno, I am not some uber PvM dder.

[Mikenche]

I was with a soldier. And though he had to wait a bit for me to finish my side, I killed my tower without any problem with my fixer. I dont have any dd meters and dont pay attention to my damage output but I dont remember taking me that long to kill single tower. And none ever respawned for sure.
Maybe they did change something, dunno, I am not some uber PvM dder.

I can imagine a fixer and soldier having enough DD to kill the middle tower after a synchronized kill of the first two. Especially if you're able to tank them without a healer. My friend needed me to heal her almost constantly, which meant that we had to be both on the same tower, and I couldn't keep my DoTs up all the time either.

As an addendum to that "simply impossible" claim I made above, I have to say that my friend is a tradeskill/melee trader, and thus has no IP for evades. With a combat-oriented trader, it might have been possible (I was able take on a tower by myself).

Still, I'm wondering if this was supposed to be soloable or not.

[Omutb]

How about the fact i have an arbalest on my OMNI trader?



That certainly isn't OE.

It must depend on the item.

Tokenboards most certainly go 0% and cease to give bonuses if you are the wrong faction.

[Kaylinne]

I can imagine a fixer and soldier having enough DD to kill the middle tower after a synchronized kill of the first two. Especially if you're able to tank them without a healer. My friend needed me to heal her almost constantly, which meant that we had to be both on the same tower, and I couldn't keep my DoTs up all the time either.

As an addendum to that "simply impossible" claim I made above, I have to say that my friend is a tradeskill/melee trader, and thus has no IP for evades. With a combat-oriented trader, it might have been possible (I was able take on a tower by myself).

Still, I'm wondering if this was supposed to be soloable or not.

Well I can imagine a doc and tradeskiller having a harder time. Lot of people claimed Arid Rift wasnt soloable and yet I had no problem there even with the trains. I dont have lot of dd power but I do have decent AAD setup on my toon so I can generally outheal anything apart from turrets in other Neretva zones.

If you had to heal your friend all the time of course you couldnt take down 2 towers simultaneously and that is the point. So I would say that since you do have to kill 2 spread apart towers at the same time, there is no chance that zone B was supposed to be soloable. Duoable yes, probably, but then it depends on how capable your toon really is.

[zartosht]

Now we have given out another free IPR. Keep in mind with profession balancing on the horizon there will be another one coming in the not too distant future.

Last time anything was advertised about full IPRs it was Silirrion saying, when LE was released, that the full IPR would be temporary and another one would be granted later on. He then proceeded to do the exact opposite: the full IPR never expired and another one was not granted.

And to add insult to injury, those who complained got accused of reading too much into Sil's statement

What's the real deal this time?

[Tiralee]

Last time anything was advertised about full IPRs it was Silirrion saying, when LE was released, that the full IPR would be temporary and another one would be granted later on. He then proceeded to do the exact opposite: the full IPR never expired and another one was not granted.

And to add insult to injury, those who complained got accused of reading too much into Sil's statement

What's the real deal this time?

http://aovault.ign.com/View.php?view....Detail&id=164

From that link:

We might also consider an additional reset window a couple of months after the expansion once we see how people react and adapt to the new items, tactics and character development options.

Both in that article, and in the forum posts on the subject, we were told that they might consider another full IPR. We were never told that we would get one - only that they might consider it.
_

[lugoman]

Tons of 5/6 man teams are taking advantage of the easy cake instance now, and at the speed things are going either you go with it, or when it is fixed there will be no doctors or tanks available because they already have the loot needed.

The problem is that making it just harder wont necessarily help those who arent getting a team now. Teams will just add sols/shades to the preferred profs. FC needs to give mobs abilities/debuffs that can only be offset by the under used profs. Give it a nuke like the inf key mobs so you need an mp with nsd. Make it debuff ncu so you need a fixer or give it a shield so you need engi or trader to disable it. I believe one inf spirit has attack based on how much nano it has. Give a boss one of these so gth would be helpful.

[macattack]

I have a doc, but haven't finished Arid Rift because it's a pain to solo due to low damage. 50% heal eff and capped breed -nano cost sure is popular with teams, though. So, no 12 man for that toon. I'm sure there's a lot of other endgame docs in a similar situation. What's happening here is what's happened to docs all along: no one wants to help them get through levelling to access content/meeting reqs to do content, because more damage is the better option, but everyone always wants them to doc random quest X or do raid Y for no real gain.

The solution isn't better loot to entice them to come back or reduce their lockout timer - the solution is team docs instead of going "nowai we dont need a doc lolololol moar damage" when it comes to things like Arid Rift, Inferno missions and everything else you feel a doc is a burden for.

Ya with arid rift having tumble weeds rolling through it, my doc is stuck 1/4 of the way through. I have had tons of requests for mitaar/vortexx >.< gotta get the others first though... 'tis what happens when you miss the rush. It was easier weeks ago on my enf... most mobs were dead or the PF was easier to get around becasue of all the toons farming AIXP. Not so now. Well all you raid needing docs... just gonna have to wait for us to nickle and dime DD the way there

[Kaylinne]

The problem is that making it just harder wont necessarily help those who arent getting a team now. Teams will just add sols/shades to the preferred profs. FC needs to give mobs abilities/debuffs that can only be offset by the under used profs. Give it a nuke like the inf key mobs so you need an mp with nsd. Make it debuff ncu so you need a fixer or give it a shield so you need engi or trader to disable it. I believe one inf spirit has attack based on how much nano it has. Give a boss one of these so gth would be helpful.

This.
What is the point of being able to do the quest line when I know I will get stuck on lft forever if I want to do any instance after that?