Friday with Means - April 3rd, 2009

[zartosht]

Blurp

What part of: "And to add insult to injury, those who complained got accused of reading too much into Sil's statement" you did not understand exactly?

Since you like digging archives, I suggest you go back in there and read all discussions that happened around this communication **** up from Sil. But bottom line, the fact is that I should not need to call my lawyer to help me read through the "carefully" chosen words in FC release notes neither try to second guess all potential outcomes. I am not playing poker or chess with FC, I am paying them to entertain me.

[Windguaerd]

What part of: "And to add insult to injury, those who complained got accused of reading too much into Sil's statement" you did not understand exactly?

Since you like digging archives, I suggest you go back in there and read all discussions that happened around this communication **** up from Sil. But bottom line, the fact is that I should not need to call my lawyer to help me read through the "carefully" chosen words in FC release notes neither try to second guess all potential outcomes. I am not playing poker or chess with FC, I am paying them to entertain me.

Paying for entertainment is also a hit and miss sometimes.

For example, you pay about $15-$20 to go see a movie these days. However if you didn't like the film, the theater won't give your money back...

Also, nobody is perfect and huge ***ups can happen. Means was doing pretty damn good until the 12-Man instance... then he dropped the ball. It happens.

Past is the past, Sil made his mistakes, Means will make his... let's think about the present and the future.

[shadowgod]

For example, you pay about $15-$20 to go see a movie these days. However if you didn't like the film, the theater won't give your money back...

its been about a year since i last went to a movie.. but geez... thats crazy inflation to go from 8$ to 15 bucks!

[IHaveHugeNick]

Paying for entertainment is also a hit and miss sometimes.

For example, you pay about $15-$20 to go see a movie these days. However if you didn't like the film, the theater won't give your money back...

You are confusing false advertising with product not matching someone personal preferences. If the theather advertises there will be naked Angelina Jolie in the movie and she isn't, i can and would demand money back, because lets be honest, promising naked Angelina and not delivering should be punished with death sentence.

[Windguaerd]

You are confusing false advertising with product not matching someone personal preferences. If the theather advertises there will be naked Angelina Jolie in the movie and she isn't, i can and would demand money back, because lets be honest, promising naked Angelina and not delivering should be punished with death sentence.

All movies are advertised as being a "must see", "good film" and whatnot, when you want to throw your shoe at it... and can't get your money back, what will you tell the theater manager? "Well the tv ad sayd must see, so now that I saw it, I regret it, can I get my money back?"

There is false advertising everywhere. Game Directors have made a lot of mistakes, including telling people stuff before they were 100% sure they could deliver, or just delivering the content too early and thus bugged to high heavens.

Now you want to get Means to deliver on something Sil said? good luck, Means approach is different than Sil's. Also, you can't hold Means accountable for what Sil may have promised.

i.e. Bush made stupid mistakes, Obama now is trying to find solutions to the problems his predecessor caused.

If you feel something is owed to you because Sil made some sort of compromise or promise get a nice quoite from whatever post he wrote about it, then add your own opinion and get players to bump the thread in Game Suggestions.

[IHaveHugeNick]

All movies are advertised as being a "must see", "good film" and whatnot, when you want to throw your shoe at it... and can't get your money back, what will you tell the theater manager? "Well the tv ad sayd must see, so now that I saw it, I regret it, can I get my money back?"

You simply don't get it.

[shadowgod]

You simply don't get it.

well.. if a movie is advertised a "Must See!". and i go see it, only to discover i could have waited, or it was really a "shouldnt see!", how do you demand your money back?

not to mention movie advertisements are all the time using clips from movies that dont actually get in the movie. if you're lucky they might end up in a Director's Cut edition or something. but for the movie itself, they're advertising something thats not even in the movie!

[gergiskoo]

Movies are a bad example. Think of a car. If it is advertised that the car's engine puts out 150 HP under normal conditions, and you get it tested and it turns out that it only puts out 120 HP under what the manufacturer defines as "normal conditions," that is false advertising. If you are told that you will get a free 20oz soda with the car but you only get a 12oz can, that is false advertising. Saying that a movie or game or car or whatever is a "must-see" or is "great" is simply the advertiser's opinion, and since opinions vary from person to person, it is not false advertising if you disagree with the opinion.

Anyway, it's silly to get enraged about how LoX was "falsely advertised" or whatever. They're fixing it, and they never really made any blatantly misleading claims about the booster. And if it were really falsely advertised, everyone would be up in arms about it, not just one person or two who wants his phatz ASAP.

[Tiralee]

What part of: "And to add insult to injury, those who complained got accused of reading too much into Sil's statement" you did not understand exactly?

Since you like digging archives, I suggest you go back in there and read all discussions that happened around this communication **** up from Sil. But bottom line, the fact is that I should not need to call my lawyer to help me read through the "carefully" chosen words in FC release notes neither try to second guess all potential outcomes. I am not playing poker or chess with FC, I am paying them to entertain me.

The fact is, as I said in my post, that Sil never said that they would grant another full IPR. He said that they might consider it. I think there's a big difference between the two.

Granted, that has to have been one of the most mispercieved statements I've ever seen on these forums. But as far as I can see, both in the LE Q&A on AO Vault (which is what my link was to) and in the LE posts here, there was never a statement from Sil promising more than that they might consider it.

I am trying to understand your point of view on this. Perhaps you can help me. Do you feel that Sil's "might consider it" statement really meant, or implied, that they were definitely going to give another full IPR? Or do you feel that somewhere, Sil actually said that they were definitely going to give another full IPR?

[zartosht]

That discussion has taken place so many times *sigh*...

Since you are not so good at digging out archives, I'll do it for you: treachery. This is the first thread in which Sil announced that FC had changed its mind. There have been so many other discussions afterward that it is rumoured that a full standalone server is dedicated only to store them.

If you do not see the problem with FC making statements that leads players to take a certain number of decisions and then simply changing their mind and thus making the previous decisions bad ones, then you are beyond repair.

[macattack]

Wow.. 'tis already Wed.. and only 4 pages on this thread.. light crwod this week (though it is Spring break for many)

[Tiralee]

That discussion has taken place so many times *sigh*...

Since you are not so good at digging out archives, I'll do it for you: treachery. This is the first thread in which Sil announced that FC had changed its mind. There have been so many other discussions afterward that it is rumoured that a full standalone server is dedicated only to store them.

If you do not see the problem with FC making statements that leads players to take a certain number of decisions and then simply changing their mind and thus making the previous decisions bad ones, then you are beyond repair.

We are very obviously talking about two different things, and perhaps that is where a misunderstanding is coming from.
My post - http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...8&postcount=57 - was only about whether or not Sil promised an additional full IPR.

The post you quote is where Sil stated that the full IPR was not, as inititally indicated, only temporary.

Two different things

I don't think you will find anywhere, about the additional IPR, where Sil ever said anything more than that they might consider it.

EDIT: Zartosht, it was never my intent to make this an argument. It was only my intent to put down what I believe is the truth about whether or not we were ever told that we would get another full IPR, as opposed to that they might consider it. If you can find anywhere where Sil said anything other than "might consider" it - that is, where he said we would definitely get another full IPR - I would truly appreciate a link. I will be happy to admit that I'm wrong, if you find that.
_

[zartosht]

...was only about...

Alas, you cannot separate one from the other. The whole representation about how full IPRs would be managed is one unique subject. It is the context that counts not the wording. If you disagree go take a law degree, at least afterward you would be paid to annoy us.

[Homeostasis]

I for one find this FWM refreshing. Sure, it would be great if it was all good news each and every week, but the reality is sh*t happens. What matters to me is what is going to be done about it. I am looking forward to next weeks FWM to see the progress - post panic and etc etc etc of course.