Friday with Means - March 6th, 2009

[IHaveHugeNick]

Regarding being nice to newbies: i love how everyone on forums is always very helpful, voluntarily spends countless hours explaining stuff to new players, helps them do the quest, gives away items, and generally everyone is always so nice they would give their kidney to a newbie if it was neccessery.

But when you get ingame and try to actually experience some of that charity, ohh yeah, that's when the fun begins.

We aren't nice to newbies. We aren't. There is no discussion about it. We aren't nice - but do you want to know why? Its because the learning curve and money farming curve for starting players in AO is so steep, even the pope wouldn't have the patience to help everyone everywhere all the time.

Honestly, i don't mind helping people , but i play this game to have fun, not to function as a fulltime school teacher. I turned of OOC 3+ years ago, i stopped answering random questions about my professions 2+ years ago, unless its the other "veterans" asking my opinion. Only remaining thing i can force myself to do, is making free carb and implants for lowbies, and i know plenty tradeskillers dont even do that, and have set very minimal prices for their services to avoid making lowbie stuff.

So yep, we can try and help , but AO needs more build-in ingame feedback. Updating the profession descriptions would be a good start.

[Technogen]

Regarding being nice to newbies: i love how everyone on forums is always very helpful, voluntarily spends countless hours explaining stuff to new players, helps them do the quest, gives away items, and generally everyone is always so nice they would give their kidney to a newbie if it was neccessery.

But when you get ingame and try to actually experience some of that charity, ohh yeah, that's when the fun begins.

We aren't nice to newbies. We aren't. There is no discussion about it. We aren't nice - but do you want to know why? Its because the learning curve and money farming curve for starting players in AO is so steep, even the pope wouldn't have the patience to help everyone everywhere all the time.

Honestly, i don't mind helping people , but i play this game to have fun, not to function as a fulltime school teacher. I turned of OOC 3+ years ago, i stopped answering random questions about my professions 2+ years ago, unless its the other "veterans" asking my opinion. Only remaining thing i can force myself to do, is making free carb and implants for lowbies, and i know plenty tradeskillers dont even do that, and have set very minimal prices for their services to avoid making lowbie stuff.

So yep, we can try and help , but AO needs more build-in ingame feedback. Updating the profession descriptions would be a good start.

What nick said, Following my "Techno 10" link in my sig and I've put down a good start for helping new players in game.

[bungerman]

All hostile debuffs running on the target should be visible, including stuff like Borrow Reflect. The "hostile" lockouts like AMS countdown, Concentration countdown, countdowns for 18.0 nanos, etc. - shouldn't.

what about when the target hits coon and it shows up in players NCU? That is much like the AMS problem, don't think it should be visible.

[Doctorhyde]

Means / Macrosun, regarding the NCU change ... any chance that it could be limited so you can only see the hostile nanos on your target that YOU put there?

Would fix issues like Sol AMS ... and would seem alot more fair to those toons being drained/GTHed/etc. There's a thread on the Doc forums that brought this to mind.

I still like the concept, just wondering about tuning it. It seems to me this was meant more as a "able to visually track your hostile nanos on target" concept (DoTs come to mind) than a "oh look, that poor schmoe has been GTHed and didn't think we'd notice ... KILL IT!" idea. This is how I've seen this concept in most other MMOs. And it would fit with the idea that we already have text-mode notifications of nanos wearing out.

Maybe instead of a live view into the NCU we could instead have the visuals based on the same timer as we get in the text channel.

[IHaveHugeNick]

what about when the target hits coon and it shows up in players NCU? That is much like the AMS problem, don't think it should be visible.

Well, i specifically said about debuffs. Things like cocoon, dance of fools, limber, NBG, AMS, and so on and so on, shouldn't be visible.

Means / Macrosun, regarding the NCU change ... any chance that it could be limited so you can only see the hostile nanos on your target that YOU put there?

Would fix issues like Sol AMS ... and would seem alot more fair to those toons being drained/GTHed/etc. There's a thread on the Doc forums that brought this to mind.

I still like the concept, just wondering about tuning it. It seems to me this was meant more as a "able to visually track your hostile nanos on target" concept (DoTs come to mind) than a "oh look, that poor schmoe has been GTHed and didn't think we'd notice ... KILL IT!" idea.

I cant really agree with that reasoning. What would be the purpose of your own debuffs having visual icon on the target? There is completely no need for that kind of functionality, as there are already text feedback messages.

Yes, debuffs should be visible and they should result in debuff player being targeted more, that's the entire point of debuffing - to cripple the target and in result eliminate it.

It would encourage team work and coordination on level previously unseen in this game. It also swings both ways - more and more debuffs become removable , so this feature will also help friendly players to remove debuffs from each other. For example Fixers would be easily able to remove GTH from Doc or NT.

[Kaylinne]

For example Fixers would be easily able to remove GTH from Doc or NT.

I doubt anything in this game will be done to make fixers useful for something else but stationary buffs.

[Arlancor]

First - Thanks for keeping us updated with the progress of the work being done with ao!

Second thing - Was it a bug to make the enfo fear not usable after last patch, or is it "Working as intended"?

[Nab2000]

The NCU spy thing should only include hostile buffs YOU casted on the other player. I'm fine with seeing all hostile buffs on friendly players, but having enemies see all hostile buffs running on me, would make me quit playing, it's just to much of a change. If you can't make it work so others can only see their own hostile buffs, please don't put this ingame.

[Technogen]

The NCU spy thing should only include hostile buffs YOU casted on the other player. I'm fine with seeing all hostile buffs on friendly players, but having enemies see all hostile buffs running on me, would make me quit playing, it's just to much of a change. If you can't make it work so others can only see their own hostile buffs, please don't put this ingame.

Other people can already see what hostile nanos you have running on you, they have visual effects.

[Gastastic]

...
Can this week be "Be kind to n00bs week!". We did an experiment this week where each of the devs would make a new character and try to get help..and god forbid...an invite to an organization. I think the most diplomatic way of describing the outcome would be to say there were "mixed results". AO is a very complicated game...please try to remember how it felt when you first started out and try to extend some kindness to these people...Rubi-Ka is a dangerous complicated place...a little help goes a very long way!...

Send more noobs.

[Polarbaer]

3. No...my NCU...I feel naked when others can see it!!!

This is why we ask for feedback on new game mechanics. Soldiers, quite rightly, feel it would be unfair for others to see when their TMS is next available. Knowing this is a significant issue for soldiers means that we can make it so that this specific timer-nano is not visible to others. When we can see that issues of this kind are addressed we can look forward to this new feature...and not before.

please add enforcer's challenger cooldown to the 'not to be seen'-List :-)

[Doctorhyde]

Other people can already see what hostile nanos you have running on you, they have visual effects.

Not all have visual effects (or at least I've never noticed it from things like OFITG, DoTs, etc), and the visual effects give you no idea how long the nano will last.

Many effects are similar if not identical, too, so you can't know for certainty which nano it is you are seeing the effect from.

And if the effects were "enough" then we shouldn't need the more detailed icons. I'm still throwing my weight (LOOK OUT!) behind only seeing hostile nanos YOU cast via icons ... then relying on nano effects for those from others.

[Lektronik]

On a personal note:

Can this week be "Be kind to n00bs week!".

Why should we help noobs make FC profitable when FC harasses the playerbase for 3 years straight (credit spam + broken /ignore system, among other things)?

*que the flames*

[Klodovik]

Means / Macrosun, regarding the NCU change ... any chance that it could be limited so you can only see the hostile nanos on your target that YOU put there?

This, please.

Other people can already see what hostile nanos you have running on you, they have visual effects.

Not all have it and it's only on initial cast, which can also skip here and there (visual notification) so you have to look through damage/system log (which is also not highlighted in a distinctive color - it should be) to see if you landed it at all (not practical).

[Theotus]

Stop lying to yourself. AO has never required "Skill" to PvP, it was all completely about what items you get.

you mean that ENF spamming AS is not using skill?

[zartosht]

We did an experiment this week where each of the devs would make a new character and try to get help..and god forbid...an invite to an organization.

May I suggest that you renew this experience by rolling characters in the range of 150+ and try getting a team to level or characters of range 210+ and try to find help to do DB quests and then we talk about it?

[Technogen]

From what I understand they are taking the chrs to 220 zart, to try out all of the new content as a new player.

[Klodovik]

From what I understand they are taking the chrs to 220 zart, to try out all of the new content as a new player.

Then you didn't understand well.

[Kaylinne]

From what I understand they are taking the chrs to 220 zart, to try out all of the new content as a new player.

May I suggest that at least one of those 220s make a fixer and try to get pick up team for some of that "new content"

[Technogen]

What do you want Kaylinne, for Means to magicly snap his fingers and fixers become the most uber pwns? YES fixers are bad off right now, YES means has said so on the forums that they are. There are other professions bad off too, there have been other professions WORSE off then fixer currently is. IT will get fixed its just not going to instantly happen and its not going to be a 1 patch thing unless its a massive patch that addresses every profession's shortcomings.

If you want change stop whining about it, make a list, and post it at every thread addressed to a fixer. Put it in your sig and point it out. "fixers are experiencing troubles, here is a census from the fixer forums about our problems and how we would like to see them fixed."