Friday with Means - February 6th, 2009

[Technogen]

Mp nanos.

[ArienSky]

Nice update Means, I especially like the "what has teh Devs done this week", it could be a good regular occurrence.

It's possible for almost any 220 to make 100m an Hr blixing RK missions... If you dont have credits it's because you're 1 in SL, 2 Not trying.

so when playing a weekend, 5 hours a day you max out your account?
Indeed please share how you do it.

Mp nanos.

Which of these nanoes? I spend 14 days getting 50 mil, running those and other nanoes on my level 165.

Kind Regards
Ariensky

[Hulk]

Mp nanos.

you can smoke those?? :O

[Wrangeline]

Mp nanos.

Putting the whole notion of making 100m an hour on "mp nanos" aside for now, if such methods is how people got too rich to begin with then those methods are what needs to be nerfed. Adding credit sinks to everyone, poor or rich, is not helping the actual problem as the problem would have been what you just tried to describe.

I personally think people have a lot of money because AO is closing in on EIGHT years old and by now, people have a lot of money. It's only natural for this to happen in such an old MMO.

[Technogen]

NOW I have seen everything on these forums...

A trader asking for a nerf to selling things to shops... Original!

[shadowgod]

Nice update Means, I especially like the "what has teh Devs done this week", it could be a good regular occurrence.


so when playing a weekend, 5 hours a day you max out your account?
Indeed please share how you do it.

Which of these nanoes? I spend 14 days getting 50 mil, running those and other nanoes on my level 165.

Kind Regards
Ariensky

today's secret word is,


anima.

[Wrangeline]

NOW I have seen everything on these forums...

A trader asking for a nerf to selling things to shops... Original!

If people have so much money from this activity you just described that FC needs to create artificial credit sinks JUST to remove some of their overflowing credits, then yes, it needs to be nerfed.

Obviously.

Obviously nerfing that source of credits is a better option than creating random credit-vacuum-cleaners in the game.

This is getting weirder by the minute.

[Hacre]

Jesus Christ, first people bitch to get credit sinks that people will use but then "wooaah hold on a minute, don't make them THAT heavy, 100m is a lot!"

I'm finding my ISP connection expensive, I wonder where I can post to cry and bitch about that and demand it be made cheaper?

It's pretty safe to say these days that no one in the game is currently sitting on credits they PERSONALLY got by selling ingots.

So anyone WITH credits has either earned them, or ebayed them. The latter is obviously an issue FC need to deal with, the former is a group of people that shouldn't be penalised because they took the time to build up some wealth.

Crying over a 100m cost for a full perk reset with a 72 hour cooldown, for example, is just LOL. Nanopwnerx, if you want to play a game that caters for ADHD afflicted "NOW NOW NOW MUST HAVE NOW" crowd, sod off and play WoW. AO isn't the game for you.

How often do you need a FULL perk reset? I mean really?

[Mekh]

...snip...
Maybe 250,000 credits per level that comes out at 55 million credits at 220.

I like this suggestion... Allthough still on the high side imo.

[Hulk]

In any event, Means already said "modest Fee" imo 100m to say the least can not be described as modest by my definition.

This was supposed to make "perk reseting easier" not "perk reseting easier for some"


Now about that timer

Is 24 hours too little for some of you who crave hindering functions that impede your gameplay?

Nanopwnerx, if you want to play a game that caters for ADHD afflicted "NOW NOW NOW MUST HAVE NOW" crowd, sod off and play WoW. AO isn't the game for you.

Firstly, I would have to say that you are quite possibly the least intelligent person on this entire forum.
That being kind from me as I could have said on the internet and then maybe have been closer to the truth.

Second, If I was part of that now now crowd you speak of I wouldn't still be playing this game.

However, in defense of WoW, they must be doing something right, I mean largest MMO, award winning, and arguably most fun MMO in history. Like it or not thats what it has become.

Third and last I have sense in my head to know that a game is supposed to be fun and inviting to new players.
Why do you insist on arguing that FC should make the game like work and not like play?

[Wrangeline]

Jesus Christ, first people bitch to get credit sinks that people will use but then "wooaah hold on a minute, don't make them THAT heavy, 100m is a lot!"

I'm finding my ISP connection expensive, I wonder where I can post to cry and bitch about that and demand it be made cheaper?

It's pretty safe to say these days that no one in the game is currently sitting on credits they PERSONALLY got by selling ingots.

So anyone WITH credits has either earned them, or ebayed them. The latter is obviously an issue FC need to deal with, the former is a group of people that shouldn't be penalised because they took the time to build up some wealth.

Crying over a 100m cost for a full perk reset with a 72 hour cooldown, for example, is just LOL. Nanopwnerx, if you want to play a game that caters for ADHD afflicted "NOW NOW NOW MUST HAVE NOW" crowd, sod off and play WoW. AO isn't the game for you.

How often do you need a FULL perk reset? I mean really?

You just said "people shouldn't be penalized because they took the time to build up some wealth".

What on earth does that mean? Are you saying if perk resets cost less than 100m, rich people would feel penalized? Why? What the hell is going on here?

This is not the first time we have been in this situation. You say things should cost more, I say they should cost less. Can you please tell me WHY perk resets should cost 100+ mil a pop?

And I mean an actual reason. Why should it cost a lot rather than costing a little?

[Obtena]

My concerns about the perk reset are that the time between resets is too long and also the cost.

Assume that you have a way to make 10 million credits per hour. Also, consider it takes 140 hours for a full perk reset. If you choose to think in this way, you can evaluate the 'cost' of a full perk reset as 1400 million credits for a full reset.

Perhaps that seems excessive but the reality is that if you think of the value that people put in a full perk reset, it's not out of the question for it to be worth about the value of credits you can make in that time.

Now you could argue "Well, i'm not going to farm for 140 hours so you would rather do it the old way" so obviously, it's putting a cap on the cost.

Personally, I don't want to have my toon 'locked' in a twinking perk setup for more than it needs to be so I would lean towards a expensive, no-time lockout scheme for this reset since moderately priced, moderate time lock-out makes me wonder why the hell I would pay for perk resets? If I have to wait almost as long for the lockout as I would perk reseting the old way, I'm just going to keep my credits.

Any justification for expensive perk resets to punish the rich are stupid. You are only punishing the poor with those schemes. Rich people will pay for a perk reset if they see the value in it. Personally, I would like to see this perk reset as a paid points service. You either have RL money or you have RL time for a perk reset. If you have neither, you should question if playing a subscription MMO is good for you in the first place.

[Wrangeline]

My concerns about the perk reset are that the time between resets is too long and also the cost.

Assume that you have a way to make 10 million credits per hour. Also, consider it takes 140 hours for a full perk reset. If you choose to think in this way, you can evaluate the 'cost' of a full perk reset as 1400 million credits for a full reset.

Perhaps that seems excessive but the reality is that if you think of the value that people put in a full perk reset, it's not out of the question for it to be worth about the value of credits you can make in that time.

Now you could argue "Well, i'm not going to farm for 140 hours so you would rather do it the old way" so obviously, it's putting a cap on the cost.

Personally, I don't want to have my toon 'locked' in a twinking perk setup for more than it needs to be so I would lean towards a expensive, no-time lockout scheme for this reset since moderately priced, moderate time lock-out makes me wonder why the hell I would pay for perk resets? If I have to wait almost as long for the lockout as I would perk reseting the old way, I'm just going to keep my credits.

Except you can perfectly well farm credits while doing perk resets. Doing perk resets one perk at a time does not stun your character in place until it's over.

This new perk reset thing Means is planning is there to make perk resetting easier. He also said a "modest fee". None of what I have heard from "high cost"-people in this thread so far fits in with this at all.

[Hacre]

You just said "people shouldn't be penalized because they took the time to build up some wealth".

What on earth does that mean? Are you saying if perk resets cost less than 100m, rich people would feel penalized? Why? What the hell is going on here?

This is not the first time we have been in this situation. You say things should cost more, I say they should cost less. Can you please tell me WHY perk resets should cost 100+ mil a pop?

And I mean an actual reason. Why should it cost a lot rather than costing a little?

The penalty comes in the form, of making that effort of amassing yourself some wealth, bears no reward in the shape of making it easier to do what you want with your character, if people who can't be arsed to farm any money get to do the nice things as well, then there's no advantage and no reward for the effort.

Why should it cost "more"? I say "more" because 100m just is not "a lot". It isn't. Not with how fast you can earn credits in AO these days.

Why "more"? Because this is a luxury fast track feature. You're going from 20 hours to reset a single line, to "hey CLICK all my perks are available!". A nice luxury that should cost you something.

I'm sorry you decided to ragequit or whatever the circumstances were behind you quitting and you've decided to come back to the game. But that's how it is.

Did you expect everyone to make symbiants, armour and whatever else cheaper for you, to avoid the cruel necessity to earn money to buy back your equipment?

I can go out now and buy a car for 500 pounds. I want to go to Scotland. That car will get me there just fine. Should Ferrari make their cars much cheaper for me, because otherwise I cannot afford one just because I want to get to Scotland faster? Er no.

[Nuclearsmeg]

The penalty comes in the form, of making that effort of amassing yourself some wealth, bears no reward in the shape of making it easier to do what you want with your character, if people who can't be arsed to farm any money get to do the nice things as well, then there's no advantage and no reward for the effort.

Why should it cost "more"? I say "more" because 100m just is not "a lot". It isn't. Not with how fast you can earn credits in AO these days.

Why "more"? Because this is a luxury fast track feature. You're going from 20 hours to reset a single line, to "hey CLICK all my perks are available!". A nice luxury that should cost you something.

Agree.

[Wrangeline]

The penalty comes in the form, of making that effort of amassing yourself some wealth, bears no reward in the shape of making it easier to do what you want with your character, if people who can't be arsed to farm any money get to do the nice things as well, then there's no advantage and no reward for the effort.

Why should it cost "more"? I say "more" because 100m just is not "a lot". It isn't. Not with how fast you can earn credits in AO these days.

Why "more"? Because this is a luxury fast track feature. You're going from 20 hours to reset a single line, to "hey CLICK all my perks are available!". A nice luxury that should cost you something.

I'm sorry you decided to ragequit or whatever the circumstances were behind you quitting and you've decided to come back to the game. But that's how it is.

Did you expect everyone to make symbiants, armour and whatever else cheaper for you, to avoid the cruel necessity to earn money to buy back your equipment?

I can go out now and buy a car for 500 pounds. I want to go to Scotland. That car will get me there just fine. Should Ferrari make their cars much cheaper for me, because otherwise I cannot afford one just because I want to get to Scotland faster? Er no.

I see. You view this new perk-reset system as a "Luxury" version of the current perk reset system. From that point of view, you are basically right. However, I don't view this new system as a luxury version of the old one. I don't think FC views it as a luxury version either because if they did, they would not have used the word "modest". Luxury and modest does not really go hand in hand as I see it.

I'll wait for Means to say more about it.

The way I personally view this new system is basically this:

The current system is too slow when it comes to big perk-setup-changes, so FC adds a faster way. Not as a luxury version of the old system, but as an option. You have the old version of changing single points back and forth when needed and then you have this new system for FULL reset so you don't have to spend so much time doing it 1 perk at a time. You simply use the full reset if you need to do a massive change in perk-setup and you use the old free 1-perk resets when you need to do minor changes.

As someone else said in this thread, this new system is supposed to make perk resetting easier, not "easier for some".

So I guess that is where our views differ.

[Hulk]

The penalty comes in the form, of making that effort of amassing yourself some wealth, bears no reward in the shape of making it easier to do what you want with your character, if people who can't be arsed to farm any money get to do the nice things as well, then there's no advantage and no reward for the effort.

Why should it cost "more"? I say "more" because 100m just is not "a lot". It isn't. Not with how fast you can earn credits in AO these days.

Why "more"? Because this is a luxury fast track feature. You're going from 20 hours to reset a single line, to "hey CLICK all my perks are available!". A nice luxury that should cost you something.

I'm sorry you decided to ragequit or whatever the circumstances were behind you quitting and you've decided to come back to the game. But that's how it is.

Did you expect everyone to make symbiants, armour and whatever else cheaper for you, to avoid the cruel necessity to earn money to buy back your equipment?

I can go out now and buy a car for 500 pounds. I want to go to Scotland. That car will get me there just fine. Should Ferrari make their cars much cheaper for me, because otherwise I cannot afford one just because I want to get to Scotland faster? Er no.

This is where our differences lie.

I think that making it less expensive will give people the opportunity to experiment with different setups making ithe game a more interesting and enjoyable experience.

[scenenheard]

The penalty comes in the form, of making that effort of amassing yourself some wealth, bears no reward in the shape of making it easier to do what you want with your character, if people who can't be arsed to farm any money get to do the nice things as well, then there's no advantage and no reward for the effort.

Why should it cost "more"? I say "more" because 100m just is not "a lot". It isn't. Not with how fast you can earn credits in AO these days.

Why "more"? Because this is a luxury fast track feature. You're going from 20 hours to reset a single line, to "hey CLICK all my perks are available!". A nice luxury that should cost you something.

I'm sorry you decided to ragequit or whatever the circumstances were behind you quitting and you've decided to come back to the game. But that's how it is.

Did you expect everyone to make symbiants, armour and whatever else cheaper for you, to avoid the cruel necessity to earn money to buy back your equipment?

I can go out now and buy a car for 500 pounds. I want to go to Scotland. That car will get me there just fine. Should Ferrari make their cars much cheaper for me, because otherwise I cannot afford one just because I want to get to Scotland faster? Er no.

took the words quite literally out of my mouth... well typed

This is where our differences lie.

I think that making it less expensive will give people the opportunity to experiment with different setups making ithe game a more interesting and enjoyable experience.

the typical answer from the "hey can you lend me $500 to try out a new fashion, I'm not convinced these rags are doing the job" type attitude

[Nuclearsmeg]

I think that making it less expensive will give people the opportunity to experiment with different setups making ithe game a more interesting and enjoyable experience.

This excuse gets used every time people want stuff faster and easier.

Guess what - people HAVE been experimenting making the game more interesting and enjoyable for a looong time before this.

some things need to be expensive, some things need an arbitrary timer on them for lock-out.

If not, everything may as well be instant.

That's what sucks. FC makes 1-2 things a bit easier/faster...the cries for "it's not good enough" and "now give us xxxxxx" follow not too far behind.

[Hacre]

This excuse gets used every time people want stuff faster and easier.

Guess what - people HAVE been experimenting making the game more interesting and enjoyable for a looong time before this.

some things need to be expensive, some things need an arbitrary timer on them for lock-out.

If not, everything may as well be instant.

That's what sucks. FC makes 1-2 things a bit easier/faster...the cries for "it's not good enough" and "now give us xxxxxx" follow not too far behind.

You beat me to it.

I'm looking forward to all of the "new, unique never tried before" setups that will clearly come forth as a result of faster perk resets.