Friday with Means - January 30th, 2009

[Lheann]

If there is no longer an upkeep balance, the need for warnings is lessened. Org bank doesn't have the limits the old system did and can be kept at a level that will cover rent for many months or even years in advance. More warning couldn't hurt though.

I think the advantages simply will not go down at all now. CRU market can hardly even be called a market these days with CRU being so readily available, it is very cheap now already so I don't see that as a factor in this decision.

The demolition on "bounced check" system is already in place with the current upkeep balance. Player items never get lost as they are tied to individual characters, not the org building or terminal. They are essentially bags that are only accessible via a terminal.

Well maybe some of the lower org upkeeps are not an issue. But at ~100mil for upkeep that changes somewhat. I have seen org bank pretty low during the summer when most of the member were on vacation.

And the last time I checked currently failure to pay gets your advantages deactived first and then X num days later boom the city gets demolsihed. So now it would be check for credits. If not there boom city is gone.

I am sure that older players like ourselves consider 1 or 2 mill for 100% CRU via ICE to be cheap or 2 mil for 25-40% CRU to be cheap. But there are new players that 2 mil items are like blessings. Hey CRU blitzing is listed as a get started making credits option in the newbie forums.

So while the items in the shops will not go boom with the city how do u get them back into your bank or inventory?

And to think that at least one city across 3 servers will not go boom simply because they did not have enough credits in the bank is not much forsight. We are talking as little as 1 credit casuing it to go boom.

[Kaitoujeanne]

Does this mean an org with an old city can also have a new city, and control them both

Bump for answer.

Will old Cities still be used? Can we have both?

[Lheann]

Ok I am seeing that your items stay with you but require an player shop to access. But follow my logic.

Org city goes boom. You log in and see it is gone. Rush to city plot and damn someone has claimed it. So until your org gets the money up to get a new old style city so you can re-open all your shops the items are gone.

Since the new instanced cities will not have shops there will be no easy recovery from this. Come on people think about it. There will be city farmers flying to all plots all the time looking for demolished cities. The chance that your org president can log in and reclaim the city before some farmer does is not in your favor.

Thanks for the answers but I think you have made it pretty clear that if your city goes boom and you fail to reclaim it before someone else that you loose access to shops full of items. Yeah some big org is going to get screwed and several members are going to scream bloody heck.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Well maybe some of the lower org upkeeps are not an issue. But at ~100mil for upkeep that changes somewhat. I have seen org bank pretty low during the summer when most of the member were on vacation.

Dont really need to go that far as bank running out. He sayd "Any cities that are in debt before the patch, will be immediately demolished on startup. (Old cities)" Now, we do realise not everyone reads forums, right? What if, simply, some small orgs have payments scheduled for a patch day or just before it? Its not enough time for people to adapt to new mechanics.

And you better take our complaints seriously , otherwise when patch kicks in, no one will care about checking out this booster you all are working on, because everyone will run around like madman searching for city plots to claim.

[Technogen]

Organization bank account: 2174999600 credits.


Thats an Org on TEST, I think that players can be smart enough to have 50m in their banks on live before this patch hits live, and if they cant be smart enough to get 50m in their org bank once a month (which can be put in by ANYONE) I think they dont deserve their city anymore.

[Technogen]

Dont really need to go that far as bank running out. He sayd "Any cities that are in debt before the patch, will be immediately demolished on startup. (Old cities)" Now, we do realise not everyone reads forums, right? What if, simply, some small orgs have payments scheduled for a patch day or just before it? Its not enough time for people to adapt to new mechanics.

And you better take our complaints seriously , otherwise when patch kicks in, no one will care about checking out this booster you all are working on, because everyone will run around like madman searching for city plots to claim.

We addressed the issue of "instanced cities". I have been asked a great number of questions on this subject and I was thinking I would answer some of the ones I can this week. This will involve some changes to the current way cities now work...so read up if you have one. We'll be announcing the hell out of any changes to current cities before we push this live.

Seems to me like he's saying he's not going to just spring it on the game.

[egadsrk2]

Well if auto demolision happens on patch day, you can bet your left nut there will be people ON THE PLOTS IT WILL HAPPEN TO at the exact instant servers go up. Dyna camping, with a much much higher profit margin.

Its an exploit, but it doesn't stop people. You can already cruise cities and check how much money is in the tower and when that payment is due. I know a guy who saved up billions for a city, none were for sale and went for a cruise. They found two that were almost 30 days over due, and were camped out and ready for when it happened. Got them both. Sold one, farmed the other.

Total Time Farming Ones Ass Off: A month
Total Time flying around Rimor checking very single city: 4 hours.
Total Time monitoring the shortlist: 1 trip a day.
Total Money spent after farming ones ass off: 2% on buying cleared plots.
Total profit: 3.8b

Anyway, BRB. I need to make my new Neutral org. 'I just stole your city lulz'

[Lheann]

Organization bank account: 2174999600 credits.


Thats an Org on TEST, I think that players can be smart enough to have 50m in their banks on live before this patch hits live, and if they cant be smart enough to get 50m in their org bank once a month (which can be put in by ANYONE) I think they dont deserve their city anymore

Wish 50 mil would cover city rent. Not really impressed with any testserver org having 2 billion credits in the org bank. Those of us that have played there for years know how easy credits are to acquire on test. You may not be aware but some cities have rent at or slightly over 100mil. A smal org that enjoys a city this size could be struggling with the upkeep at various times of the year.

Saying it is not an issue does not make it so.

[Technogen]

I have a medium city on live, rent is 51 mil, Small city rent is 25ish mil, large city rent can in fact be around 100m, we have a good bit before this patch goes live. If you have a large city and can't manage to put 100m in your org bank you dont deserve to keep that large city.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Seems to me like he's saying he's not going to just spring it on the game.

You should make up your mind , you either think warnings arent needed, or you think its all gonna be good because Means said there will be a lot of warnings.

Atm you just act like a teenage cheerleader.

Just like the warnings for the scheduled downtimes lately , right?

Or maybe there will be warnings in the launcher, the same launcher no one takes seriously anymore because its updated once a month and it can still say servers just went for a downtime, a week after the actualy downtime, and the other way around.

As far as trying to warn as many people as you can, they could hire and send a Playboy bunny to every city owner, and make them jump out of the cake with a YOUR CITY WILL GO BOOM IN 6 HOURS sign, and you bet your ass there will still be plenty of people who manage to lose their cities.

There is no such thing as enough warnings, but 6h is definitely in the "not enough" category.

[MajorOutage]

Each org has a private playfield with one city plot. Reachable by teleport from <to be decided>.
People not in org will be allowed in by <to be decided>.

How bout the grid?

City upkeep payments will be taken from the org bank at the announced time.

Yay, sort of. I liked having the upkeep money earmarked, instead of sitting in the org bank.

Warnings will be given in org chat at 6, 4, 2, and 1 hour before the upkeep is due.

That is way too quick, especially given how harsh it will be if you don't have the money there in time. Even in the current system, people fail to mention when they've seen 'in debt' messages. That message should appear on logon to every SC+ for a week before payment is due until there's enough funds in the bank.

Any cities that are in debt before the patch, will be immediately demolished on startup. (Old cities)

*Evil laugh*

Advantages will no longer disable due to controller charge being low.(Old cities and new cities.)

Awesome.

The instanced cities will be the same size as an "old" small city plot. Old cities will still have the advantage of having a market, so they will retain an advantage over the new instanced version.

Please, add some variety to the layouts. And make sure alien pathing doesn't mess with anything.

There is a lot of heated argument over this issue. My personal feeling is that instanced cities are not the target goal of hardcore orgs. To mean this should mean they lack a hardcore pricetag. Instanced cities should have a similar price to buying a small/medium old city plot. The upkeep will likely be similar to an small old city plot.

I'm with you on this. Not only are these to be targeted at small orgs that wouldn't otherwise have a chance at buying a city from another player, but they also should hold an economic advantage for farm orgs to persuade them from hogging valuable real estate.

[Technogen]

Just like the warnings for the scheduled downtimes lately , right?

Maybe you didn't notice that they are already attempting to correct this issue?

Nick, I know you always want to be right, but you really need to stop this, you're starting to make yourself look Emo.

[Ekarona]

Decrease in CRU prices is small price to pay for working advantage system. Atleast now it's seems to be workin quite weird and is annoying as it drops bonuses for whole org, sometimes for reason some times NOT.

6h is way too short, 7 days should be suitable, for message every time you log on if there isn't money in org bank...

Why not allow markets for instanced cities, and if they are for onces with "real" city too, make them separate so we can share junk in org ;D

[Warhead]

Placeholder post to ensure you stay on page 1?

Those who lack the ability to convey their thoughts without writing up a ****storm of useless words but have the urge to stay on page one, do that, yes.

[Tiralee]

Q - How do you get/request a city?
A - If your org currently does not own a city you can simply enter the instance door...and purchase your city. Entering the door from then on will take you to your city.

"If your org currently does not own a city" sounds as if an org that already has a non-instanced city cannot purchase an instanced city. I'm not sure if that's the case or not, but let's just say it is. If so, I'd be curious if an org that has an instanced city can later purchase a non-instanced city and still keep the instanced city. If so, this would mean that some orgs would be able to have both types of cities, while others would not. Hopefully, all orgs would be able to have both types of cities, or all orgs would only be able to have one type of city, and not a mix-and-match depending on which type of city the org owned first.

Any credits in the upkeep pool will be transferred to the org bank. (Old cities)

I'm sure that this will go smoothly. However, just in case of glitches, what would be a good form of proof that there were creds in the upkeep pool? A screen capture, perhaps? Or something else?

[Technogen]

Those who lack the ability to convey their thoughts without writing up a ****storm of useless words but have the urge to stay on page one, do that, yes.

Not always, its that people don't read all of the post though out the thread, so being on page 1 tends to help get your post across. Example, instead of repeating myself over and over again about the cost and why their arent org shops in the instances I just updated my 1st post to answer these questions.

[If6was9]

Sounds like a great step forward.

[Rewo]

Decrease in CRU prices is small price to pay for working advantage system.

Now that I think about it some more, I think it will increase demand for CRU. So many more people will be consuming it with this system. Price will likely get higher than it is now in short order.

[Tiralee]

Ok I am seeing that your items stay with you but require an player shop to access. But follow my logic.

Org city goes boom. You log in and see it is gone. Rush to city plot and damn someone has claimed it. So until your org gets the money up to get a new old style city so you can re-open all your shops the items are gone.
...

Your items will be in any shop that you open later, not just your org shop. If worse comes to worse, you can ask an org with a city to give you a temporary invitation to their org so that you can open a shop, take out your items, close the shop, and rejoin your original org. I know of at least one, and probably more, orgs that would give someone temporary membership in a case like this.

Of course, if you are the org leader, it's a bit more complicated, since you would have to give up leadership temporarily to do this.

[Chrisax]

Booster:
Metaing tells me the Engi mines (version 1!) will be in for testing in the next build...which I am hoping is this weekend.
The first team instance "Mitaar Hero" will be testable this week too. I'm looking forward to seeing some of you on test to try out the new areas.

I'll be there on my Main and also my engi for the mines.



Instanced cities: all good, even great. My only regret is that we can't change the whole way cities are implemented though.

City upkeep payments will be taken from the org bank at the announced time.
Warnings will be given in org chat at 6, 4, 2, and 1 hour before the upkeep is due.
If the upkeep amount is not available in the org bank at the time it is due, the city will be demolished. (Also applies to old cities.)

Yes on the principle; auto-payment is great. But the delay for warnings is much too short. Especially when you know that NOT all ranks can see how much money there is in org bank!

There is a real life (RK4) besides AO and many many things can occur that make possible no one sees the warnings. I'm not speaking of large organizations like ours (AP and GoA) which have hundreds of millions, if not billions, permanently in our bank but of smaller orgs that need to "feed" the bank every month for the upkeep. They don't deserve to lose a city because they miss 6 warnings over 6 hours!

Also, ANY org can make an error some day, even big ones.

Please make that something like 24 warnings / 24 hours + warning to all org members when they log on + one extra warning in the last 15 minutes.

Any cities that are in debt before the patch, will be immediately demolished on startup. (Old cities)

Please issue a LOT of system messages before that.

Advantages will no longer disable due to controller charge being low.(Old cities and new cities.)

A dream comes true at last! Long overdue. Thanks a lot really.

The upkeep will likely be similar to an small old city plot.

Perfectly consistent.