The Dragon & Morgan

[Brutal Truuth]

I will say this though Farside ,I am more then willing to get abunch of my guldies Toghter and help yu next time around . Send me a tell ingame when Morgan is up and i will drop everything to help u .

[_____________Kungwho]

This issue has become important to some of my guildmates (Sumini and Truuth) and guild (CAS), and therefore I was hoping someone could shed light on a couple of questions for me here.

First, I assume that the player-organized Tara loot "administration" (for lack of a better word) was created by completely fair-minded folks who act fairly (i.e., dole out the loot using a good faith raffle). Some may find the rules (+125 level requirement) "unfair," but I assume they were created with fairness in mind and are applied fairly and evenly. (Btw, many of my friends think the 125+ level requirement is "unfair" because too low--150+ they think is more "fair.")

Second, the Tara administration has the active support of so many high-level players (like Azz), that it is practically a foregone conclusion that the admistration players will win the loot for themselves.

Third, if you try to outdmg the Tara administration players--compete for the loot--then you will be most likely "banned" from participating in the administration in the future. "Banned" because you post a threat to the proper administration of the administration (heh).

Fourth, there are 2 competing views here. One says that competing for kill loot is perfectly legitimate and makes AO fun. The other says that much effort has gone into an excellent player-organized administration for divvying up RK's most precious loot, and should not be undermined. Thus, folks who engage the administration in good faith under the first view are "banned" under the second. The message behind being "banned"--ostracism--to my mind is certainly negative--you mucked up and now are no longer welcome.

Personally I sympathize with both views as to the Tara administration. However, consider this: if a group of teams desires to challenge the "administration" for the outright fun in kill loot competition (first view)--with no intention of undermining the continued viability of the administration in the future, and indeed with the intention of support it (second view)--should these players be henceforth "banned" from participation in any future administration activities? Second, would the answer here change if the challenging kill teams--if successful--willingly share/raffle the loot with the administration players?

As another possibility--perhaps there should be times set aside when the administration does not control the Tara loot, and fierce, chaotic competition can be allowed to blow unfettered. Perhaps this is already the case, dunno lol.

[assassimon]

Originally posted by Kungwho
This issue has become important to some of my guildmates (Sumini and Truuth) and guild (CAS), and therefore I was hoping someone could shed light on a couple of questions for me here.

First, I assume that the player-organized Tara loot "administration" (for lack of a better word) was created by completely fair-minded folks who act fairly (i.e., dole out the loot using a good faith raffle). Some may find the rules (+125 level requirement) "unfair," but I assume they were created with fairness in mind and are applied fairly and evenly. (Btw, many of my friends think the 125+ level requirement is "unfair" because too low--150+ they think is more "fair.")

The chatbot was made by Asmoran, he is also hosting it and is the only one that can change anything in it. The admins have afew commands to open/close bot, open/close registration, starting the raffles etc.

The lvl 125 rule came when omnis owned Camelot and we needed as many people as possible there, they all helped us "take back" Camelot, imo I don't think it is fair to raise it now, else I would like to see a lvl 175+ limit, would work good too, but that won't happend I think

Second, the Tara administration has the active support of so many high-level players (like Azz), that it is practically a foregone conclusion that the admistration players will win the loot for themselves.

Everyone that is entering the raffles have same chance to win, the admins can't do anything except roll and the bot choose a name of all that have entered, only one that could "cheat" is the one hosting the bot.

Third, if you try to outdmg the Tara administration players--compete for the loot--then you will be most likely "banned" from participating in the administration in the future. "Banned" because you post a threat to the proper administration of the administration (heh).

Banned because if you don't want to follow the rules we have in Tarabot, why should we let you in the bot next time? (and again, it's nothing I decide, I'm not admin anymore and don't care what they do)

Fourth, there are 2 competing views here. One says that competing for kill loot is perfectly legitimate and makes AO fun. The other says that much effort has gone into an excellent player-organized administration for divvying up RK's most precious loot, and should not be undermined. Thus, folks who engage the administration in good faith under the first view are "banned" under the second. The message behind being "banned"--ostracism--to my mind is certainly negative--you mucked up and now are no longer welcome.

IMO, why would we be nice to you if you not nice to us?
I would probably have more fun if we competed for the kill and I would probably get more loot too, but I don't do it cuz Tara have almost always been omni vs clanners, not clanners vs clanners and I'm not gonna be the one that break the only thing "all" clanners do together.

Personally I sympathize with both views as to the Tara administration. However, consider this: if a group of teams desires to challenge the "administration" for the outright fun in kill loot competition (first view)--with no intention of undermining the continued viability of the administration in the future, and indeed with the intention of support it (second view)--should these players be henceforth "banned" from participation in any future administration activities? Second, would the answer here change if the challenging kill teams--if successful--willingly share/raffle the loot with the administration players?

The organized raids aren't for killing Tara really, it's for killing omnis and make sure they don't get the Tara kill, I don't think many are interested to make Tara a "see what team make most damage" competition without getting the loot if they win.
But ofcourse it's something that can be discussed if we want competitions like that( don't send tells to me about it, send to someone else)

As another possibility--perhaps there should be times set aside when the administration does not control the Tara loot, and fierce, chaotic competition can be allowed to blow unfettered. Perhaps this is already the case, dunno lol.

I think there are times when no admin is online, but usually someone start a chat and everyone join that anyway, so seems like most people want it this way, so why change?


I only tried to answer the questions, no need to send complains or anything to me about any Tarasque related stuff, cuz I won't do anything anyway, questions are always welcomed tho.

[Brutal Truuth]

You do know Azz that Pulling Mobs on anyone is a Very Bannable offense ..... I hope you nor anyone else does that .


As for the whole being banned from Tara thing . Yeah ok i wil live with that . Just get a team and bring it in to take it . Not that hard when u think about it . Things can be done the easy way or the hard way ... U know ? ( not directed at you azz )

[__________Nursebetti]

Back when I played EQ (many moons ago) and there were only 2 dragons - each on a 5 day (imagine!) spawn cycle - the way the large guilds handled loot was easy. We scheduled when each guild would go and attempt to kill a dragon.

A guild was added to the schedule when they demonstrated they were capable of killing a dragon. Once they had been added to the schedule and their turn was up, they had 24 hours to either kill their dragon or pass on the spawn and get moved to the back of the schedule. Guilds were allowed to invite a certain amount of help (limited to a small number) if they did not have enough members available to kill their dragon.

Now I know with the player event calander, the forums, the clan / org leader chat channels and all the other modern devices we have available - it would be impossible to SCHEDULE when people try a Tara spawn (bit of sacasm there for the daft). 18 hour spawn, that's 2 a day - how hard is it to share? If a clan/org can't kill it within 2 or 3 hours of spawning they have to pass and the next clan/org get's their chance.

Nahhh, it'll never work - too simple - and perhaps too un-fair to some (imagine a person who knows they can kill Tara not having a chance at loot every 18 hours! The horror!)

[assassimon]

Originally posted by Erinsuin
You do know Azz that Pulling Mobs on anyone is a Very Bannable offense ..... I hope you nor anyone else does that .

In Camelot only place to really pull mobs on anyone would be in T room if they are competing for kill and it's not very clever to pull mobs there cuz they can attack your own team that are competing, kinda pointless to train mobs somewhere else to kill fellow clanners.

(This is when it's clanners vs clanners)


I heared that clanners have trained box when omnis had it sometimes and omnis have done the same, havn't really seen it tho, only saw when Patk9 trained mobs into box to wake up all that were sleeping, but that was for fun and all laughted alot

[assassimon]

Nursebetti, I think the dragons in EQ needed alot more than 1 high lvl team to kill, so can't really compare it.

And would clan and omnis work together? Who would decide that someone wasn't allowed to go down there and kill omnis/clanners when it was their day?

and last...how fun would it be to just go down, kill the dragon, get the loot and leave, no omnis, no resistance, nothing.

[________________Miir]

Back when I played EQ (many moons ago) and there were only 2 dragons - each on a 5 day (imagine!) spawn cycle - the way the large guilds handled loot was easy. We scheduled when each guild would go and attempt to kill a dragon.

That's what they did on the gimp servers.
On our server, the guild who got force there first and enganged the dragon first, got the loot.

Schedules are for sissies.

[Jynne]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon
Nursebetti, I think the dragons in EQ needed alot more than 1 high lvl team to kill, so can't really compare it.

And would clan and omnis work together? Who would decide that someone wasn't allowed to go down there and kill omnis/clanners when it was their day?

and last...how fun would it be to just go down, kill the dragon, get the loot and leave, no omnis, no resistance, nothing.

Aye, Lady Vox and Lord Nagafen (the original dragons of EQ) still need at least twenty five and possibly up to 40 players between levels 45 and 52 to reliably defeat. Back when EQ first came out the maximum level was 50, and player character power was generally weaker, it always took more towards 40.

There really isn't any decent comparison between AO 'uber mobs' and EQ 'uber mobs.' Especially blue server EQ.

[Brutal Truuth]

What it all boils down to was some little Ma wanting a tortureing tool only to have his/her dreams crushed by the Bigger fish . whether it is right or wrong by them is not something anyone can decide . It just goes to show the recklessness of these people and how uber loot oreinted they are . Personaly i have no intrest in the loot Tara spawns . Even Azz knows that . What i am intrested in is the fact that people can ban others for speaking out about what they did ie helping this little Ma . Lets all step back for the moment and look at that one little fact . Lets stay on topic

[_____________Kungwho]

Good points Azz, especially for a player like myself who has not had a lot of interest in Tara. I can see that the Tara administration was designed primarily to keep Omni out of the loot, and is therefore a boon to all clanners.

The nub of the thing seems to be "Why be nice to those who are not nice back?" Well, if it was intended by the "challenging" players to raffle the loot as per the administration rules (thus the affair becomes a dmging competition, not a loot KS), then they would be "nice" to my mind, and therefore should not be "banned." (Regardless of whether the tarabot mechanics allows this sort of thing--prolly doesn't.) But perhaps you're right and what folks really care about is KS'ing the loot.

Perhaps folks are bored with the perceived "bureaucratic predictibility" of it all--dunno, or perhaps flinch at having to obey certain non-FC mandated rules and players--dunno again.

In any event, when viewed as a organized effort by clan to keep omni out of the tara loot, the Tarabot administration personally becomes more palatable to me.

On further thought, a team goes in and kills Morgan for the loot (it seems that Morgan and Tara should not be bundled together), with no intention of registering with tarabot. They are subsequently banned from participation in any later tarabot activities--this does seem draconian. Tara loot requires greater organization and resources to acquire, therefore moreso justifying a Tarabot administration. But perhaps Morgan should not be bundled together with Tara despite the nearness of the spawns--Morgan can be done with a couple of high-level players and putting it under bureaucratic control, so to say (lol), is imprudent (for reasons that have given rise to this thread), especially when draconian consequences await the unsuspecting.

[Jynne]

My own opinion is that Morgan should not have the same re-spawn time as Tarasque; she should spawn several hours faster. Her drops are hardly what I'd consider overpowering and she would be a nice 'mini-boss' introduction to Camelot for lower level players.

That said, players make do as best they can with what they're given. I don't go to Tarasque raids myself, but since Morgan and Tarasque spawn at almost the exact same time, every time, it is hardly surprising that whoever dominates the dragon, also dominates the dominatrix

Over enough time the two become linked in the minds of most people, naturally enough, and the result is situations like this.

[_____________Kungwho]

And btw--Neutrals don't get to partake in the raffle? I hope this is not the case lol. If a neutral is invited to participate, then he/she should partake in the spoils just like everyone else imho.

[Jayde]

Originally posted by Kungwho
And btw--Neutrals don't get to partake in the raffle? I hope this is not the case lol. If a neutral is invited to participate, then he/she should partake in the spoils just like everyone else imho.

Nope. Neutrals are not allowed.

I showed up at the Tara raid the other evening with a few guildies just for the fun of it... (We didn't really expect to get loot, and one of our guys had never seen Tara before.)

Two of us three met the level criteria, that being myself at level 133 with my Advent, and another Advent guildmate at level 140.

While the folks there were very friendly to us for the most part (Big props to Xscape from Pax Romana for shouting and reminding people not to Tab-kill us. We appriciated that. =) when I contacted whoever was in charge of the loot at the time (can't remember who...I'll look into it for a name) and said, "Don't suppose there's any way a few of us neuts could get in the raffle?"

Well, she replied: "Yes. Get to level 125. Then get a clan application form and go clan."

I then said, of course, "Well...I've been neutral until level 133, I'm not changing this late in the game. =)"

Reply being, "Then you don't get Tara loot either."

Even heard someone chat in vicinity that Tara loot was one of the advantages of being sided instead of neutral. Like it was a friggin' token board or something. =P

Again, I've heard that when the Omni were running it, they let neuts in the raffle. But, AFAIK, Clan raffles are Clan-only--no exceptions.

We did have fun helping kill the dragon--especially the guy who had never been there before... And, to their credit, we didn't get shot and killed. (Occasional DoT, Blind, or Episilon Purge...but nothing major. lol) But, it would have been a little more fun if, after waiting an hour and a half and participating in the kill...if we could have gotten into the raffle like everyone else.

-Jayde

[_____________Kungwho]

Sorry about that Jayde. Certainly not all clanners (me ) feel it proper to RP so emphatically in a "looting of specials" context--at least so emphatically as to preclude Neuts from a share in the loot. Tara killing is no war-against-OT Corp context--Neuts should partake imho.

[assassimon]

Clan Tara raids are for clanners only, you have a choice to go clan if you want to be on our side and fight the omnis.

The raids are organized for clanners to have fun and kill omnis, if they are lucky in the raffles they can get loot.

We usually try not to kill neutrals but sometimes people attack by mistake or even for fun, so it's not safe to be a neutral when clanners are there, but it's usually more safe than being an omni

[Brutal Truuth]

Once again i get the run around , You people find more ways to keep people out then to let them pertake in the event . Azz , would you be so kind as to Post the rules of Tara for us . I am tired of being told i cant because of this that or anything else that these so called "rules" prohibite .


Javaschick : I wanted to do this the easy way . You leave me no other choice but to do things the hard way . Pls post the Rules so i can throw them into ur face .

" You have to break a few eggs to make a mighty fine omelette "

[_____________Kungwho]

Imho, if clanners invite Neuts to participate, and those Neuts do--such as fight off Omni--then they should be entitled to raffle for loot--without having to convert to Clan. They are like guests is this context, have assisted in the kill, and to exclude them from deserved spoils unless they convert seems extreme and unfair--not to mention unpolitic and greedy.

I encourage the Tarabot rulemakers to reconsider this, as well as reconsider putting Morgan back in the "public domain" of AO activities. Tarabot organization in the case of Morgan goes overboard imho--players should be able to freely organize teams to kill her without fear of pissing anyone off, of being perceived as "not nice," and worst of all of being "banned" from an opportunity to win Tara loot--the most special loot in RK.

[Jayde]

Well, I guess I can just wait for a neutral Tara raid, then?

Honestly, logic like that is bunk. It's just an excuse to keep the pot of people in the raffle as small as possible. There is no reason to exclude neutrals from the raffle at all. Neutrals are not the enemies of the Clans. In fact, most neutrals I know (espcially our org) have helped a number of Clans on a number of occasions.

If the Clans are holding the loot, and Omni come in while Neutrals are in under the invite and OK of the Clans, Neutral members will (likey--I know I would) help the Clanners.

I've never seen a Neutral in that kind of situation do anythign to the detriment to any Clanner, and we were more than willing to help buff, heal, etc. anyone who was there. Yet we are excluded from the raffle because we are not Clan. Absurd.

Also, the raids are not orginized to "have fun and fight Omnis." They are orginized to get ph4t 1007 from Tara. If you wanted to fight Omnis, you'd go to 2H0. Keeping the Omnis out is a way to secure more loot for yourself. Likewise, making up a poor excuse to keep the neutrals out of the raffle--even if they helped you out--means more loot for you. THAT is what it's all about. To make up silly RP reasons to the contrary is a waste of effort. =P

Fact is, I have a lot of clanner friends, and I team and assist clans ALL THE TIME. A lot of them are willing to try getting me Tara loot as they have the opportunity, and I guess that's my only option at the moment.

It's just really unfortunate that people have to be so greedy. =(

-Jayde

[labrutte]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Farside
[Banned by the Admin of the Dungeon



WTF !!!

Lol shame on you, it's just a game not a business. who are you to think that you can rule a playshift of this game, i guess you are lvl 200 in one ubber guild, you have all T loot in twice and several coat and T armor, but you want more !
More for you and for your friends, and in your greedy quest you don't see the players like this MA who just want to have fun.




My god finally i'm so happy to be on rk2, but we have also some greedy players, they are less btw....



Lachaude doc 151 rk2
and many more