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Thread: Friday with Means - January 9th, 2009

  1. #41
    A Nuclear Blast from the sky... doing a knockback? Sorry, but that's completely silly, same with OS doing partial damage to player. It doesnt literally make any sense, and you know it very well. Better to remove it altogether if you are going to castrate it this way, and give NW a proper upgrade it deserves , new towers, new turrets new contracts, new control towers, and so on.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SSK View Post
    With zone idea it can be 3 separate nukes with different range 30% dmg each, so in closest range you get all 3 nukes and less if you're not that close to tag.
    This. If APTs are no longer killable with OS, it'll make lowbie NW a pure numbers game (and mechs/apts have already fubar'd lowbie NW )
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    A Nuclear Blast from the sky... doing a knockback? Sorry, but that's completely silly, same with OS doing partial damage to player. It doesnt literally make any sense, and you know it very well. Better to remove it altogether if you are going to castrate it this way, and give NW a proper upgrade it deserves , new towers, new turrets new contracts, new control towers, and so on.
    you've clearly never seen what a bomb can do when its exploded above the ground, and not when it hits the ground.

    partial damage can be totally explained via some sorta nanobot/notum tech.

    Level 1 to 300 in 8 Years! Pwn!
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    you've clearly never seen what a bomb can do when its exploded above the ground, and not when it hits the ground.
    Indeed i didnt , but if can you give me more details on what planet you have witnessed those laser attacks made from orbit, i'll just jump into my spaceshuttle, go into warpspeed and check it out myself to get more personal view on the matter.

    Yeah.

  5. #45
    If the purpose of OS is to scatter players, and if killing people in one blow is an issue, make the OS last much longer if client ressources allows it and make its damage a considerable dot instead of an insta kill. No need for complicated knockbacks or radius layers. Everyone can easily remember where the OS landed and reform the blob in 10 sec. To me, only a longer OS would prevent this.
    Last edited by Joey; Jan 10th, 2009 at 03:45:38.
    Joeymtl The Renaissance
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    A Nuclear Blast from the sky... doing a knockback? Sorry, but that's completely silly, same with OS doing partial damage to player. It doesnt literally make any sense, and you know it very well. Better to remove it altogether if you are going to castrate it this way, and give NW a proper upgrade it deserves , new towers, new turrets new contracts, new control towers, and so on.
    Watch Independance Day. Buildings blowing up is really pretty
    Ebondevil - Omni Level 220 Agent on Atlantean, Feel free to contact me any time if you have questions, in game or out.
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    Feel free to send me any tell in game or a Private Message if you require anything.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggysmallz View Post
    I like idea of dispersed crowds fighting other dipersed crowds so it is like combination of many mini 2v1;2v3etc. situations.

    However if one crowd gets dispersed and other doesn't (one which used OS) it will still be massacre of 50players picking of players one by one which imo is not cool at all.

    I for most enjoy outside pvp battles a lot (or I did some while ago) but the most awesome ones were some 15v15 basically with small numbers - less lag, don't die in 0.00001.

    So imo aim would be to get many combinations of small mini battles, don't know how others view it and how to implement it though
    I second this. If the aim is to have dispersed outdoors pvp, a knockbacking OS would only disperse one side. There would be no incentive for the other side to not blob. I see the new strategy being "the blob that OSes the other blob first gets to pick off the enemy one by one".

    Sadly, as much as I'd like to make a constructive criticism, I dont know what would be a good incentive for both sides to not blob.
    Jake "Deathorglory" Harper
    Omni-Trans, Security Division

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebondevil View Post
    Watch Independance Day. Buildings blowing up is really pretty
    I did. It was really pretty, but for the sake of argument, i'd recommend watching a documentary or two about the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathorglory View Post
    I second this. If the aim is to have dispersed outdoors pvp, a knockbacking OS would only disperse one side. There would be no incentive for the other side to not blob. I see the new strategy being "the blob that OSes the other blob first gets to pick off the enemy one by one".

    Sadly, as much as I'd like to make a constructive criticism, I dont know what would be a good incentive for both sides to not blob.

    If everyone would be scattered equaly, why would we use it? The point of coordinating an OS is also to have an advantage.
    Last edited by Joey; Jan 10th, 2009 at 04:00:50.
    Joeymtl The Renaissance
    Tsbish (Tradeskiller)
    Shibasama (lvl 5 with Feeble Gladiatorbot & Red Line)
    Achiever 66.67%, Killer 53.33%, Explorer 46.67%, Socializer 46.67%

  10. #50
    Most of u guys are passing the actual problem, as ive seen it u saw a Unredeemed Mob lift up in the sky and then vanish... movement was impossible and then a big flash of light, even if the damage on an OS would get lower Omni SB would still root ppl and make them easier targets. Now u could try and say that being able to unroot with Clan SB should counter it but in this case the attack of rooting as an element of surprice leaves little time for Clan to react.

    Back to the ideas, i like the thoughts about OS and it should indeed not be a battle decisive weapon but rather a tool. Debuffs and or lower damages sound like a great tool instead of a doombringer. Still it would be usefull as ud occupy ppl with debuffs/having to heal up and therefor in the "Anarchy" created they cant focus on the main goal of shooting the opponent side

    Hope more ideas will rise so a good choise can be made

    (My idea)
    Make the OS do less damage or debuffs like has been explained in other posts BUT
    Also make the OS prebuff everyone on the field under it with a 100% root/stun resist and also a whipe of root/snare currently on the troops in the arearange of the OS.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Solstiare View Post
    er...

    A Giant Death Ray Laser Beam Explosion from space SHOULD kill you. But for the sake of having an even fight, have OS locked out for 10-20 minutes per side for that LC area...targeting issues from the dust clouds, say.
    Well, clearly this is a feature that they can either acknowledge as a stupid idea poorly implemented and get rid of it, or acknowledge it as a stupid idea poorly implemented and change it.

    So, option 2 please. RP namby pamby stuff can explain it as ICC regulations force a technology change that instead of a DEATH RAY FRICKIN LAZER BEAMZ, it is a shockwave instead, intended to control and disperse.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    A Nuclear Blast from the sky... doing a knockback? Sorry, but that's completely silly, same with OS doing partial damage to player. It doesnt literally make any sense, and you know it very well. Better to remove it altogether if you are going to castrate it this way, and give NW a proper upgrade it deserves , new towers, new turrets new contracts, new control towers, and so on.
    It doesnt make sense like guys with machine guns fighting guys with swords? Or engineers who make robots to fight for them but dont make them awesome enough to kill someone in 5s. There are a lot of things in this game that dont make sense, but it is only a game. If you dont like being knocked back when os'ed just type /terminate while you are snared and you can have the current mechanic.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    My current impression is that the orbital strikes have "gone too far" in terms of their effect on the outcome of tower battles. The original basic concept was to "spread out" combat to make individual contributions more significant.
    I wouldn't go changing game elements because of an "impression" of based on the outcome of tower battles. If players don't mind losing an NW battle because they don't want to deal with spaceships shooting lasers from space in a sci-fi game, well that's their problem, not Funcoms. This isn't WoW. Don't cater to people wanting easy mode.

    Keep in mind that what can be done by clanners can be done by omni just as easily. Willpower is what determines who gets what. Not OS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    The general feeling from the community has been that OS mechanics have an overpowering effect on the outcome of these battles and really highlight the balance issues that exist between the sided shadowbreeds. Data would also indicate that high level bases rarely if ever change hands. This could of course be for many reasons...but again OS mechanics could be a possible cause.

    The "community" thinks a lot of things are overpowered. It's just whining.

    Also, I think that the reason high level bases don't change hands often is because 1) there are more toons that are geared for PvP than at other levels and/or 2) there is no more "regular level" grind and therefore more free time at 220 that can be spent assisting at NW....even PvM toons can contribute nicely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    AO is a game where we push individual character power to the extreme and I have always had a hard time accepting the basic idea that being killed from space, without ever seeing your enemy, could be "fun". Especially when "killed from space" can (and does) happen multiple times in a single tower battle. Before I make any changes I would like the oportunity to discuss our ideas for change here.

    I wasn't aware that any kind of dying was "fun", doesn't matter if it was from a laser in space or a well placed aimed shot.

    Personally, I think having to watch my back for a laser beam from above adds an extra layer of excitement. And if OS were really a problem, both sides would have nuked each other to death so much that a truce would be called among the players.



    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post

    I'll be checking in here daily to participate in the discussion
    Don't forget about the credit spammers, bugs, lag in the game. You do remember that stuff right?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Perfekt View Post
    I wouldn't go changing game elements because of an "impression" of based on the outcome of tower battles.
    So they shouldn't change an aspect of the game that only affects tower wars based on the outcome of tower wars since that aspect's release?
    Last edited by Berinda; Jan 10th, 2009 at 06:44:49.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Perfekt View Post
    Keep in mind that what can be done by clanners can be done by omni just as easily. Willpower is what determines who gets what. Not OS.
    So if I try really really REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hard, I can chain SB root Omnis and OS them back to Pande?

    Plz sho hao nao. Then I'll start bumping to leave OS as it is.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    <...insert impressive text size here...>

    To clarify, I meant that all sides have access to OS, so OS in itself is not a problem.

    But people would rather whine about OS and let themselves die to it in an attempt to prove their point rather than use their brain a bit. Sadly, FC will likely cater to these vegetables.


    One other note:

    If your raid force gets wiped over and over by chain SB+OS, then that was a sorry raid attempt to begin with.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Perfekt View Post
    To clarify, I meant that all sides have access to OS, so OS in itself is not a problem.

    But people would rather whine about OS and let themselves die to it in an attempt to prove their point rather than use their brain a bit. Sadly, FC will likely cater to these vegetables.


    One other note:

    If your raid force gets wiped over and over by chain SB+OS, then that was a sorry raid attempt to begin with.
    Right. You're still armchair PvPing I see.

    Omni SB root.
    Clan SB Cleanse.
    Omni SB root again.
    Clan SB Clea....oh wait, can't, locked out.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  18. #58
    How come FwM isn't on the AO homepage anymore?

    Oo someone gonna get in trouble now arent they oO

    Oh yeah and wasn't some new screenies or video about the new engine supposed to be out?
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    I did. It was really pretty, but for the sake of argument, i'd recommend watching a documentary or two about the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
    whats the point? if people dont understand those events already...

    besides the fact, modern bombs make those things look like a fire cracker, even without the fallout.

    Level 1 to 300 in 8 Years! Pwn!
    - Join us on Discord! -
    AO WIKI!
    Arcanum!


  20. #60
    *laughs at ppl trying to prove the "logic" in how a big laserbeam in a game MUST spell death to everyone in range*

    As if AO was "realistic" in any way.

    Where is the "logic" in an identical aimed shot or fa doing 10k dmg to 1 individual and 3k to another?
    And where is the logic in one being able to attack a person inside an lca but not 5 yards outside it?
    Oh and where is the logic in one clearly dying when zoning but turning up alive on the other side of the whompah/door?



    I guess there is just no limit to how much some omnis are willing poop on themselves to keep their precious iwin button.
    Please keep painting yourself into a corner. It's entertaining.

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