Banning

[Grontha]

"Greetings,
I’m sorry to inform you that your account has been suspended. The reason for this: Abusing a leveling bug.
The account will be closed for one month from today. Exploited characters/characters used to exploit will be deleted. "



A friend of mine got this mail. No warning, no nothing, and a page full of details about how he can't respond to the mail.

If FC is banning someone for exploiting a bug "everybody" is using, they will run out of players in a sec. At least give a warning before banning.

I don't mind warnings and banning, but you just can't ban a few people that has been using a bug, when that same bug is used by allmost the entire playerbase.

[Gearbox]

There are warnings about this all over the place. He was obviously aware that it was a bug, and that he was exploiting.

And by the way- the entire population is *not* doing this- this is not AC.

I've got no sympathy for this guy.

[____________Dominata]

Ohhh, bad Funcom!

I'm with you 110% on this Grontha. There should be no banning or suspensions at all from now on. If people are stupid enough not to exploit it's their problem.
As you so rightly say, "eveybody" is using this bug already so why not let it stay as a feature? At least 1.500 close ingame friends of mine used this exploit and hasn't received a warning or anything, so that is totally unfair to your friend. He is probably the only one being banned for doing this. Sheesh.

Heck, I went from level 12 to 147 in two hours using this exploit. It was so neat!! I wonder why not more people level like this, it's so easy and convenient.

Lets spam all FC's forums until they "unban" your friend, this is a grave injustice!

(Do I have to add that this whole post is sarcastic?)

[Grontha]

you really got my point I see:-)

I'm just saying that most players have exploited from time to time...
Need to ban them all then, not just a selectiv few.
And don't give me the crap that few peeps xploit.
There are tons of small exploits in use all the time, and it has been like this since day 1.

Of course I want it fixed, and I also want people who uses them alot to be banned, but they CAN'T ban without a warning first, not when the exploit is widely used.

Example, when the treatment-machine gave you +100 treatment each time you pressed it, and the WHOLE playerbased played with that in mind. Would it be right to ban 10 of the players?

[_______________Vikie]

A few of my Members in my Guild have gotten this email also today. And i guess there is not much to say about it. FC do as they want and have done from the start.

Im 100% with Grontha on this (And im NOT sarcastic)

If a group of like 10ppl are gettin banned for something that ALOT of ppl been doing and still do. Its just lame.

I want the bug fixed also. But i guess they cant fix it, and to make us not use it they ban away ...

Anyway, i know for a fact that alot of ppl Do NOT read the forums.
Was there an announsment on the Launcher? -I myself havent seen one-
And me as a leader in my Org cant be around 24/7 to inform my members of what happens.

[_______________Vikie]

Originally posted by Grontha

A friend of mine got this mail. No warning, no nothing, and a page full of details about how he can't respond to the mail.

Guess its a page full of details that they dont give a ***** and that they wont answer your email anyway.
Cause thats what happens if u reply.

[MartekO]

Originally posted by Grontha
The reason for this: Abusing a leveling bug.

Before I can consider having any sympathy over this, I would need to know some things:

• Was this the bug involving using a higher-level NT with lower level chars to powerlevel?
• If so, did they "abuse" the "leveling" bug after notices were posted that it was now considered an exploit and should not be done?

In simple terms; regardless of the actual technique employed, did they exploit after fair warning to themselves or the community as a whole?

Martek

[____________Dominata]

Ok, time to get serious then...

First of all, far from all exploit from time to time, at least knowingly. As Blue Cat said, the exploit that your friend used was well known and there already were warnings about using it, so in a way he had already been warned.

At the time the surgery clinic gave you +100 each time you used it AO was still a very young and inexperienced little game. While there was a lot of debate if this bug was an exploit or not I seem to recall that FC never stated that using this was indeed an exploit. I know for sure that I didn't know that it was a bug, I thought it was supposed to work that way. At the time this was going on we also had the people killing and leveling from killing Slayerdroids and the Juggernaught in LF.
These killings played a big part in FC even getting a banning policy, up until that point I don't think that I had ever heard of anyone getting banned for exploiting. Since logs were not functional at thattime it was also very hard for FC to prove an exploit if they didn't catch them in the act.

The playerbase are much more aware now of what is an exploit and what isn't so FC are not so forgiving anymore. If they catch one way or the other you will be banned, simple as that.

In a game as complex as an MMORPG there will always be numerous small exploits that a lot of people will use, a lot of times not knowingly. There are also some BIG exploits that are used to gain BIG advantagies over the rest of the playerbase, such qas leveling/XP 'ploits. These BIG bugs are used by players knowingly, no way that you simply stumble over it. Most likely they are found by players actively looking for various way of exploiting, and it is much more important to FC to stop those.

Frankly I di o not get your point since the best way of stopping exploits is to ban people, make them realise that they will get caught and will suffer more than a slap on the wrist. I agree that all who did this should be banned but FC probably have to settle for banning the ones that they actually manage to catch. It's not like they have a log police on duty, reviewing every single log to see what players are up to.

Your friend took a chance, gambled and lost and you will not find an ounce of sympathy here.

[______________Yazule]

example of exploit used by at least 60% of the servers

*debuff self to break root*

I am an enforcer so I have rage (when it is not broken), but everyone else (at least melee) exploits.

*shrug*

[Grontha]

Dominata, you said:

"At the time the surgery clinic gave you +100 each time you used it AO was still a very young and inexperienced little game. While there was a lot of debate if this bug was an exploit or not I seem to recall that FC never stated that using this was indeed an exploit. I know for sure that I didn't know that it was a bug, I thought it was supposed to work that way"

Why is there a treatment req on the implants if you could get unlimited treatment. Looking at what you said, I doubt you are dumb. You knew that the machine was supposed to only give +100. I refuse to believe otherwise.

And as for warning??? Where do we get a warning? I haven't seen ANYTHING about this sploit. I don't have time to read through the 200000 posts that show up in the forums each day, and I suspect this is the same for ALOT of players.

Read Hitch-hickers guide to the galaxy. This reminds me of the start of that great book. Hide important information deep into the forums, and say "you have been warned". This should have been up on the login page if they planned to ban loads of players for it.
I know for a fact that alot of the higherlvl friends of mine are lucky to not be banned at the moment, because EVERYBODY I know have tried several exploits, some just for fun, but still there. They were just lucky not to help a lowbie, or have fun with their own alt during these "2 weeks". And now they just ban a few of them. It's beyond words.

[____________Dominata]

Originally posted by Grontha

Why is there a treatment req on the implants if you could get unlimited treatment. Looking at what you said, I doubt you are dumb. You knew that the machine was supposed to only give +100. I refuse to believe otherwise.

Believe it or not but that is the way it was. AO is my first MMORPG and I knew next to nothing about the game mechanics when I started. My poor first character was gimped beyond belief...
As a Nano mage NT it was difficult enough for me to fulfill the secondary req's for my implants and money was very tight. I thought that if you had the money and was prepared to pay for it you could indeed raise your Treatment skill more than +100. Back in thise days I didn't even know about Superior First Aid...
Bah! I'm in defensive mode!!!

And as for warning??? Where do we get a warning? I haven't seen ANYTHING about this sploit. I don't have time to read through the 200000 posts that show up in the forums each day, and I suspect this is the same for ALOT of players.

There were several warnings about this by CZ in sticky posts throughout the forums about this but I agree that far from all read the forums.

Read Hitch-hickers guide to the galaxy. This reminds me of the start of that great book. Hide important information deep into the forums, and say "you have been warned". This should have been up on the login page if they planned to ban loads of players for it.
I know for a fact that alot of the higherlvl friends of mine are lucky to not be banned at the moment, because EVERYBODY I know have tried several exploits, some just for fun, but still there. They were just lucky not to help a lowbie, or have fun with their own alt during these "2 weeks". And now they just ban a few of them. It's beyond words.

Gotta love that book...
The thing about this exploit though, is that it is a very involved one and it takes consent and planning to do, and as such I would imagine that FC frowns upon it a bit more than usual.
You can compare this to RL, even. If there is a riot or whatever which involves a lot of people breaking the law, the police can only arrest the ones they are actually able to catch. There are a lot of others out there too, but they happen to be beyond the reach of the police and therefore get away. I believe and hope that this is the case with your friends banning too, but if it turns out that FC knows about people that has done this and they go unpunished I will join you on your soapbox, I promise.

Besides, it'll be good for your friend to go out and enjoy RL for a month. I sure wish I wasn't stuck here, chained to my comp and sentenced to trolling the boards and playing AO constantly.

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Grontha

I'm just saying that most players have exploited from time to time...

only exploiters think that way.

it's the same mentality people have in riots.
looting/vandalizing/breaking the law is ok because "everyone else is".

well.. in those sort of situations, not everyone gets caught.
but the ones that do get caught, get punished, and
"everyone was doing it" doesn't get you off in court.

most of us don't cheat.
and if you cheat, we dont want to play with you.

I'm glad your friend got banned.

Funcom let exploits go unpunished for way too long,
and it was the reason a lot of honest players left.

I could list a hundred exploits I knew about since release day,
(most widely known) and I didnt use a single one of them.
Even the treatment lab one that "everyone" used.

It's a game. Games are nothing but a collection of rules.
If you can't play within the rules then wtf is the point?

It's like if you were playing monopoly and you just took
a fistful of cash out of the bank stack whenever felt like it.
The other people playing wouldn't want to keep playing with you.

Cheat all you want in single-player games,
but dont cheat when you're playing with me.

[MartekO]

Originally posted by Grontha
And as for warning??? Where do we get a warning? I haven't seen ANYTHING about this sploit. I don't have time to read through the 200000 posts that show up in the forums each day, and I suspect this is the same for ALOT of players.

Well, since you haven't told us what exploit you refer to when you say "this sploit"; how can we, whom you obviously want to know and think about this since you posted to the forum, decide if you didn't see it because it wasn't there, or because it was posted but you missed it for one reason or another? The "NT powerleveling" exploit was well posted about in a sticky forum ANNOUNCEMENT at the top of most or all the forums (still there, though with a new annoucenment in front of it now), and even on the launcher for a while. So, you are asking for support but are being somewhat vague about the circumstances.

Martek

[Dudicas]

Originally posted by Grontha
"Greetings,
I’m sorry to inform you that your account has been suspended. The reason for this: Abusing a leveling bug.
The account will be closed for one month from today. Exploited characters/characters used to exploit will be deleted. "

WTF do you call that? It is a warning. Quit crying about wanting a warning. What do you think I’m sorry to inform you that your account has been suspended means? It's a warning, your friend will get his account back in a month and he'll be free to exploit till he's caught again.

Sometimes I really think you people need a reading comprehension test before you'r allowed to post.

[Cz]

This is not an issue for the bulletin board at all, but since people are mostly level headed about it I'll just move it to the social forum and close it. I don't work with exploits myself, but allow me to make a few comments.

'Everybody' using an exploit is no reason not to act against those we catch doing it. It should be pretty obvious that this leveling method circumvents the rules, and gives a huge benefit to people involved; i.e. an exploit.

And trust me, it's not that many using it. It's only that you hear about it everywhere these days. If only the fact that it is an exploit, and doing it is a huge risk, would spread just as fast... no more cases like this.

The e-mail detailed how to respond, including how not to respond. It never stated that you can't reply, but that you should reply to exploits team, nobody else. We've seen people e-mailing all Funcom addresses they could find (and logging in with a secondary account to petition too), spamming people who can't act on the issue anyway, hence the strict rules on how to reply.

I believe I have already spoken with the customer this involves, and I trust that the person has already replied on the e-mail.

Thank you for not taking this to a new thread. Let the people directly involved handle the case.