Friday with Means - November 21, 2008

[Kirana]

Commentary on what the left over 4 professions will be getting while the other 10 get neat new pvp mechanics to play around with?

Sorry..been busy.

1. The keeper fear immunity aura will be in its own line...there will not be any real or imagined downside to using this aura.

2. This aura is part of a free update...all affected professions will get it should they be inclined to obtain it from an OFAB vendor. As a free update it does not mean everyone will be included in the additions. Not every class will have fear and knockback...much the same as not every class will get TMS etc. If not in this update perhaps your profession will receive new toys in the next. I am not going to hand out "crap" to make it seem like everyone got something. Updates/items in the booster will likely be more effective for some professions than for others...perhaps the updates for classes that receive powerfull knockback and fear tools won't get such tasty treats from the booster? I'm certain we can all nod and wink knowingly at one another now.

3. Early cure albums are emo. Drunk teenagers get emo at 2am. This thread is EMORMOUS!

He answered in another post.

[Troxxor]

Altho I would love to talk with you about remaking the Blunt Perklines!

BUT PLEASE!!!! PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! comment on the 1/2 HB!!! (~ I am sure it was mentioned in the threads once or twice ~)[/COLOR]

Means et al. rocks!!!

thank you for all your answers Means, although, som attention regarding a look at the Enforcers blunt perkline would be very much appreciated. If only a recognition of if/when you guys are looking into it.

Folofal

(~cough~) 2hb love/Answers to our blunt questions (~cough~)

big bump for 2hb weapon fixes

Erm what these guys said really, please...

Are we likely to see any changes to 1hb or 2hb perklines/weapons?

[Blackdog]

Maybe this question has already been posted somewhere in the thread, but cba to look through all the 200+ posts :3

When can we expect to see some more screenshots/videos of the new rendering engine? It was first announced over a year ago, and still we've only seen 1 video and 1 screenie.

[Gothy]

He answered in another post.

Actually, no, he didn't. He answered that not everyone would necessarily be getting the pvp mechanics, and that he'd rather give nothing than crap. He, however, did not mention that the pvp mechanics would be ALL that's coming out. Asking if there would be something to look foward to for my professions in the upcomming content is not the same as asking if we get the new pvp mechanics, which, of course we don't according to a list that MAY not be complete, if you had actually bothered to read the questions posed (and unanswered) by other people in this thread.

Is my question slightly bitter in the face of being shafted in FC's poor misconception of balance in our current fun rock-paper-scissors PvP environment? Sure. But don't try and change my question into something that it's not. Until we know for 100% certain exactly what's coming out, my question isn't answered.

Of course, the answer to my question can unfortunately be "nothing". In my opinion, a negative answer is still better than speculation, though.

[Shii]

...FC's poor misconception of balance in our current fun rock-paper-scissors PvP environment?

This Metaphore is often used, though i think its not correct, as we have Less Scissors than Paper, and these few Scissors do well in cutting Rocks too...


(Anyone tested the Doc Nuke on test?)

[Klodovik]

(Anyone tested the Doc Nuke on test?)

Don't tell me they got another nuke now.

[Gothy]

This Metaphore is often used, though i think its not correct, as we have Less Scissors than Paper, and these few Scissors do well in cutting Rocks too...

I think, in that case, you're taking the metaphor too literally. There's no rule in rock, paper, scissors that you have to pick each choice once or equally. You simply pick which you think is going to be the one that smashes the other person.
Taking that rather obvious concept into play, I think it fit's AOs pvp system nicely. Personally, I look at the concept of rock-paper-scissors pvp more in the means that everyone has multiple amounts of rock, paper, scissors to combat another profession, rather than selecting a specific and singular choice to represent each profession (though honestly I feel that works too, except I don't find the imbalance you've mentioned an inaccurate metaphor, just a visible showing that FC fails at balance yet again).

Since FC gets to pick which profession gets what tool, you can look at it like this:

Instead of each profession getting all three options in varying degrees, say, 8 rocks, 6 papers, and 7 scissors, some professions are getting 10 rocks, 8 papers, and 8 scissors while others are getting 1 rock, 2 papers, and 4 scissors.
You can pretty much assume and generalize at this point that profession A would be considered a rock in this, and profession B would be scissors. However, even though paper and scissors aren't Profession A's strengths, against a person where they would be more effective, say Profession C with 10 rocks as well, but only 1 paper and 4 scissors, Profession A then becomes scissors to Profession C's paper.

I'm sure I could go on in depth in how I feel the metaphor works, but it's really quite redundant toward this whole topic (and thread) so I'll just stop now. :P

[Jaroba]

hm, next "friday with means" maybe we should be very short with comments and "blabla"? takes ages find the questions (I am blabla )

[Troxxor]

Lol Jar

Gotta love Friday with Means, this thread's just running out of steam as a new one comes along.

Yay for regular updates, I can grind constantly in the office on forums as well as at home ig now!

[Means]

I think, in that case, you're taking the metaphor too literally. There's no rule in rock, paper, scissors that you have to pick each choice once or equally. You simply pick which you think is going to be the one that smashes the other person.
Taking that rather obvious concept into play, I think it fit's AOs pvp system nicely. Personally, I look at the concept of rock-paper-scissors pvp more in the means that everyone has multiple amounts of rock, paper, scissors to combat another profession, rather than selecting a specific and singular choice to represent each profession (though honestly I feel that works too, except I don't find the imbalance you've mentioned an inaccurate metaphor, just a visible showing that FC fails at balance yet again).

Since FC gets to pick which profession gets what tool, you can look at it like this:

Instead of each profession getting all three options in varying degrees, say, 8 rocks, 6 papers, and 7 scissors, some professions are getting 10 rocks, 8 papers, and 8 scissors while others are getting 1 rock, 2 papers, and 4 scissors.
You can pretty much assume and generalize at this point that profession A would be considered a rock in this, and profession B would be scissors. However, even though paper and scissors aren't Profession A's strengths, against a person where they would be more effective, say Profession C with 10 rocks as well, but only 1 paper and 4 scissors, Profession A then becomes scissors to Profession C's paper.

I'm sure I could go on in depth in how I feel the metaphor works, but it's really quite redundant toward this whole topic (and thread) so I'll just stop now. :P

I am making your rock "mauve" to improve balance. Only because you injured my brain with this metaphor.

[Chrys]

<Roxx! Paperz! Scissors and Dice!>

That's what it would be in a best case scenario. But until they relook certain rox smashz all prof tools, then it isn't the case. There are some fairly all-rounded profs that dont have any one particular debilitating threat to them in PVP (mainly keepers and advies), but for the rest of us, we have to live with the fact that certain profs can #^&% us up the minute they see us.

[Gothy]

That's what it would be in a best case scenario. But until they relook certain rox smashz all prof tools, then it isn't the case. There are some fairly all-rounded profs that dont have any one particular debilitating threat to them in PVP (mainly keepers and advies), but for the rest of us, we have to live with the fact that certain profs can #^&% us up the minute they see us.

I don't think you quite understood my explaination of the metaphor.

[Chrys]

I don't think you quite understood my explaination of the metaphor.

How so? What tools does a fixer have to kill a 220 Bow MP? What tools does a NT have to kill a trader? What defense does anyone have against Mongo Rage (oh right, runspeed ) What defense does a doc have versus a trader?

[Gothy]

How so? What tools does a fixer have to kill a 220 Bow MP? What tools does a NT have to kill a trader? What defense does anyone have against Mongo Rage (oh right, runspeed ) What defense does a doc have versus a trader?

What does this have to do with your lack of understanding of the metaphor?
On top of that, you've proven the metaphor more correct than I could have with specific examples. All the professions with zero defense against the prior profession's tools can now be considered the pair of crushed imaginary scissors to the theoretical crushing rock. I have never in my life played a game of rock-paper-scissors where the scissors were attempting to fight back my rock through means of their pointy end.

That said, simply stop for five seconds and realize that I'm not actually disagreeing with you or arguing with you, because I believe in my initial post I showed with an example that there were gross inequalities affording no equal chances between certain professions because of their given toolsets while leaving other professions proficient if not better in all areas of opportunity. I apologize for your lack of reading comprehension, but I have now stated it in plain english for your viewing pleasure.

You're welcome to keep driving your (extremely unclear) point into the ground, but I call it quits as I don't know what you're going on about. This may come as a shock, but I don't particularily care, either. Last word is yours for the taking! <3

[Prynxkjui]

What I find really amusing is how the dev's now try to balance a totally unbalanced PvP situation.

They give some profs new PvP crowd control tools.
They give some profs a defence against those tools.
They give some profs neither of the two above.

And it's not the currently weak PvP profs that get something and the currently strong PvP profs that get nothing as you might think would maybe help bring some balance.

[Chrys]

You're welcome to keep driving your (extremely unclear) point into the ground, but I call it quits as I don't know what you're going on about. This may come as a shock, but I don't particularily care, either. Last word is yours for the taking! <3

Never mind, I read your convoluted metaphor as an argument that every prof has some defense against another.

And btw, the objective of using metaphors is to simplify and express your argument, not make people utterly lose your line of thought xD

[Xaun]

I am making your rock "mauve" to improve balance. Only because you injured my brain with this metaphor.

hahaha... if I were drinking milk it'd be coming out my nose..

[Towerblock]

I take rock every time.

And if someone covers it with paper (mind you that's a pretty weak defense), you punch them in the face with it, and then ask them casually how paper is supposed to stop that.

[Ktaul38]

I take rock every time.

And if someone covers it with paper (mind you that's a pretty weak defense), you punch them in the face with it, and then ask them casually how paper is supposed to stop that.

*chuckles* A defining Atrox approach.