Letter from the Game Director – March 2008

[Jenshiye]

... Well, mainly it was to try and provide something for everyone ...

Loving the social tab thank you guys!

*Bump for higher priority on more RK zones, fixing or adding RK dungeons.*

[Koizumi]

I like the new raidinterface idea BUT im all aginst making another channel for it.
Loot rights - ok, hp bars etc - ok...but making another chat chan for it(as i understood what you said) would only make a conflict with current bots...and im pretty sure many ppl wont like that.
Btw i wonder how will the loot rights work with it...
Will the LR still be applied to a TEAM that does most dd or to a raid interfaced 'team'?

[Jenshiye]

The impression I got was that it would be similar to /team in that those in your raid group would have access to /raid and it would exclude those not in said group.

[Koizumi]

Passing leadership, aswell as lootrights to certain items....mmm....

[Hacre]

but making another chat chan for it(as i understood what you said) would only make a conflict with current bots...and im pretty sure many ppl wont like that.

Well to be perfectly honest, tough. I'm not anti-bot, but bot's do not own the game, FC do and the new raid interface will only be successful if it offers a better alternative to zerg bot point farming.

Bots exist to fill a need, they'll only disappear if that need is addressed better by the new system.

I hope it is.

[Koizumi]

Well to be perfectly honest, tough. I'm not anti-bot, but bot's do not own the game, FC do and the new raid interface will only be successful if it offers a better alternative to zerg bot point farming.

Bots exist to fill a need, they'll only disappear if that need is addressed better by the new system.

I hope it is.

You think so?
Ok, then lets try simulate this:
We got only FC channels.
How is a RL picked? (there will be ALOT of problems evolving around this)
How will(if at all) the points from previous bots be transferred?
What about current banlists?
What about ffa'ers?
How would we enforce the raidrules if smbdy does not listen?
There are thousands of things that we dont yet see that might complicate the situation that raidbotted areas are in atm.
Imo, if something's working pretty well, it should be left as it is.

[Hacre]

You think so?
Ok, then lets try simulate this:
We got only FC channels.
How is a RL picked? (there will be ALOT of problems evolving around this)
How will(if at all) the points from previous bots be transferred?
What about current banlists?
What about ffa'ers?
How would we enforce the raidrules if smbdy does not listen?
There are thousands of things that we dont yet see that might complicate the situation that raidbotted areas are in atm.
Imo, if something's working pretty well, it should be left as it is.

Well a large flaw in your thinking here, is you're already panicking about losing what we currently get from the bots designed to fill a need.

As I said, we can't speculate any further on it until we see it/get some kind of preview as to how it is going to work. For all we know, it will work in tandem with the current raid bots, or, it will be such a wtfpwn system that raid bots will pale into nothingness.

Or it will suck in comparison and the raid bots will stay.

[Koizumi]

Well a large flaw in your thinking here, is you're already panicking about losing what we currently get from the bots designed to fill a need.

As I said, we can't speculate any further on it until we see it/get some kind of preview as to how it is going to work. For all we know, it will work in tandem with the current raid bots, or, it will be such a wtfpwn system that raid bots will pale into nothingness.

Or it will suck in comparison and the raid bots will stay.

Not quite panicking, just stating the disadvantaegs of what i see that COULD happen.
Just so FC knows what are my and quite some other people's thoughts on this.
Its good to run such simulations so FC does not waste time on something we'd never use/like..
But ur right, we must wait till we get something we can touch

[Rewo]

You think so?
Ok, then lets try simulate this:
We got only FC channels.
How is a RL picked? (there will be ALOT of problems evolving around this)
How will(if at all) the points from previous bots be transferred?
What about current banlists?
What about ffa'ers?
How would we enforce the raidrules if smbdy does not listen?
There are thousands of things that we dont yet see that might complicate the situation that raidbotted areas are in atm.
Imo, if something's working pretty well, it should be left as it is.

This post makes me sick to my stomach

The last thing FC should do is design the raid interface around the current bot system. It simply has to be a standalone solution. Every one of your concerns are based on the current public raiding system but if the new interface is done properly then the current bot system is and should be rendered meaningless. Sorry about your points but everyone knew all along that they don't mean a thing and were always at risk of going poof.

Once you view raiding as an org function or something done with a group of friends/co-op then deciding on RL, banlists, points etc don't mean anything. Not to mention that this interface will do a lot to help orgs with their own smaller raids when they have more than one team. Smaller groups should be the focus of this interface. If larger raid content that is currently zerged gets hurt in the process then that's just a bonus.

No more welfare raiding in AO please.

[Agustino]

Heh.. Another fought to make zerg pointbot raiding obsoleet is to make Pande and APF's raid group instances with.. them the timers could be hostile nanos running in the ncu of the players.

In the case of pande there could be timers for each zod, tnh and the beast. And for the apf the timer will start when zoned in.. Ofc. there will be some remapping for the pande raid zone, but i think it will be worth it.. But this is just my weet dream

[Vlain]

Heh.. Another fought to make zerg pointbot raiding obsoleet is to make Pande and APF's raid group instances with.. them the timers could be hostile nanos running in the ncu of the players.

In the case of pande there could be timers for each zod, tnh and the beast. And for the apf the timer will start when zoned in.. Ofc. there will be some remapping for the pande raid zone, but i think it will be worth it.. But this is just my weet dream

They probably wouldn't even need to remap pande - just make the Zodiac's portal lead to the 'pand instance'. It could be accessible 24/7, but perhaps with the hostile timer regulating entry, as you mentioned before. And they could limit the max number of players in each instance to the max size of the new raid interface (i.e. 36).

They could just leave the Zodiac's portal on all the time, as opposed to having it pop when the Zodiac is killed.

I don't think it'd be that big of a deal if the occasional raid force managed to gain entry on someone else's Zodiac kill - actually, I'd bet that most raids would probably wait for the Zodiac & Hiisis to pop, in order to prevent untimely popping after half the force has already zoned.

[Agustino]

They probably wouldn't even need to remap pande - just make the Zodiac's portal lead to the 'pand instance'. It could be accessible 24/7, but perhaps with the hostile timer regulating entry, as you mentioned before. And they could limit the max number of players in each instance to the max size of the new raid interface (i.e. 36).

hmm.. You are proberly right.. But there are still an issue with finding a way to make Zods unfarmable, hence a little remap. Cause it woulden't be a good ideer to make a timer like on AFP caus ppl might wipe otw to Beast and that shoulden nesseary mean you have to wait 9 houres to do it agine.

[Vlain]

Yea, you're right. Perhaps put separate timers for killing a zod at each location (i.e. separate timer for east, west, mid & north), tnh, & beast... - not saying that's the best idea, but I'm sure they can I'm sure they can come up with something.

[PhoenixOfAges]

Quite a few people have asked if the new systems will support PVP based rewards. As I mentioned last time out this is something that is on the drawing board as it were. We will consider PVP based rewards associated with either your ranks or possibly some other associated goal. We won’t be doing it in the short term however. We want to give the new systems some time to settle in and see if we need to make any further tweaks or changes before we add rewards into the mix.

If you want to give PvP rewards for higher titles or what not then please make them only usable on other players or usable in PvP only zones (BSs, arenas, notum silos, the Will to Fight, the bar in Hope). Maybe add another wear tab for PvP items that only kicks in when in a PvP only zone. If you have something in a given slot in the PvP tab the regular slot is voided when in one of those zones but if nothing is in the PvP tab slot the regular item in that slot is used.

[Hacre]

If you want to give PvP rewards for higher titles or what not then please make them only usable on other players or usable in PvP only zones .

Why?

This smells of "I don't like PvP and I don't want those pesky PvPers getting something that I'll want thus forcing me to PvP". Much akin to all the PvP to VP whining.

To use this logic, AI perks/weapons should only work against aliens.

[PhoenixOfAges]

These titles are gained by purely PvP means, presumably because you like PvP so why not make the rewards aimed at use in PvP? Fighting mobs for one type of XP or another advances your char which allows you to build it for whatever your desired direction is. This is a base function in the game which affects all activities. PvP is something you can do after developing your char through PvM means and at least had been an optional side activity. So rewards for that side activity should benefit just that side activity.

Also the old means of PvP points was prone to abuse as there were those that paid their way to high titles. With the new one since the title of the one you're killing doesn't matter and how you don't loose points if killed it is even more prone to abuse. Look around in the 17.8 and pre-17.8 forum and there are various topics discussing how anyone could in time get high titles if they continue to PvP regardless of how good they are. Plus how easy it would be to just get together in groups or use alts once or more a day to willingly exchange wins and losses so as to power level as it were up the PvP titles without doing any real PvP. You complain that PvM is boring and easy, is being able to quickly advance through PvP titles by killing people over and over that let you kill them any better?

Behaviour such as yours towards the PvM community that asks that VP purely by non-PvP means be enough to make getting our items perfectly possible as we were told it would be is a good reason alone not to give the PvP community any more overt ease of access over general use items. Going around starting joke threads in the suggestion forum to mock those that start ones asking for better PvM VP is pretty childish and there were at least four of you that did just that. We don't need any more of that nonsense and making the rewards should they decide to give some general use ones will just make that situation worse. I would sooner avoid future conflicts on the matter that anyone could plainly see would arise from making them general use, why don't you?

You like PvP, I don't. You play mainly to do what you get enjoyment out of which is to PvP so why are you so bothered by the idea that your efforts in PvP would only improve your performance in PvP? Weren't you the one going on about how you can perform just fine with only basic carb armour in any PvM situation? If so, why would you care in the slightest if any new rewards from the new PvP system and titles only benefits your performance in PvP? You yourself have stated you don't need any of the new items for PvM anyhow so why act like making them PvP only would now be a problem? Seems like you're just looking to pick a fight, again.



As an added note you'll see I said they could add a PvP wear tab, this is something PvPers would rather like I should imagine. While at 220 you generally can get your gear on easily enough at earlier levels it takes more work. So not having to twink back and forth to get your PvP and PvM gear on people would welcome I would think.

[Ulcero]

Hey Sil,

So what about the Character transfer ???
Please give a statement.


regards

[Vlain]

These titles are gained by purely PvP means, presumably because you like PvP so why not make the rewards aimed at use in PvP? Fighting mobs for one type of XP or another advances your char which allows you to build it for whatever your desired direction is. This is a base function in the game which affects all activities. PvP is something you can do after developing your char through PvM means and at least had been an optional side activity. So rewards for that side activity should benefit just that side activity.

Also the old means of PvP points was prone to abuse as there were those that paid their way to high titles. With the new one since the title of the one you're killing doesn't matter and how you don't loose points if killed it is even more prone to abuse. Look around in the 17.8 and pre-17.8 forum and there are various topics discussing how anyone could in time get high titles if they continue to PvP regardless of how good they are. Plus how easy it would be to just get together in groups or use alts once or more a day to willingly exchange wins and losses so as to power level as it were up the PvP titles without doing any real PvP. You complain that PvM is boring and easy, is being able to quickly advance through PvP titles by killing people over and over that let you kill them any better?

Behaviour such as yours towards the PvM community that asks that VP purely by non-PvP means be enough to make getting our items perfectly possible as we were told it would be is a good reason alone not to give the PvP community any more overt ease of access over general use items. Going around starting joke threads in the suggestion forum to mock those that start ones asking for better PvM VP is pretty childish and there were at least four of you that did just that. We don't need any more of that nonsense and making the rewards should they decide to give some general use ones will just make that situation worse. I would sooner avoid future conflicts on the matter that anyone could plainly see would arise from making them general use, why don't you?

You like PvP, I don't. You play mainly to do what you get enjoyment out of which is to PvP so why are you so bothered by the idea that your efforts in PvP would only improve your performance in PvP? Weren't you the one going on about how you can perform just fine with only basic carb armour in any PvM situation? If so, why would you care in the slightest if any new rewards from the new PvP system and titles only benefits your performance in PvP? You yourself have stated you don't need any of the new items for PvM anyhow so why act like making them PvP only would now be a problem? Seems like you're just looking to pick a fight, again.



As an added note you'll see I said they could add a PvP wear tab, this is something PvPers would rather like I should imagine. While at 220 you generally can get your gear on easily enough at earlier levels it takes more work. So not having to twink back and forth to get your PvP and PvM gear on people would welcome I would think.

Leave it to Phoenix to take an off handed comment by Hacre, and seque right back into her favorite argument. I'm sure Sil will be happy to see this same discussion in yet another thread. Apparently you subscribe to the, 'if you ask the same question enough times maybe you'll get a different answer' school of thought.

I see no reason to make items un-useful in pvm just because you don't like to pvp.
Oh noes! ...Phoenix don't like pvp...guess we can't put any AC's or weapon skills on this armor cuz it might be seen as useful for pvm.
And despite your claim that pvp'ers would like gear to have a pvp only tag, I happen to like that ofab can be used in both pvm & pvp.

Those joke threads were made to illustrate the ridiculous double standard you propose regarding VP. The whole issue continues to revolve around a group of people that think they are special, and should be able to simplify or otherwise bypass an element of gameplay simply because they don't like it. That's why similar threads are a joke to begin with - the whole concept is ridiculous on its face - wah, I don't like pand, so gimme burden in VP shops.

You can make that sentence with any grind/reward, and they all sound just as ridiculous:

wah, I don't like XP/SK pvm grind, so gimme XP/SK for pvp kills
wah, I don't like tara, so gimme dchest from APF

and ofc, your favorite:

wah, I don't like pvp, so gimme better VP from AXP mish

And you still love to grasp at some fleeting notion that you're not getting something that FC 'promised'. FC didn't promise to award VP in pvm according to your personal standard of viability, they only promised that VP would be available in pvm to some degree, and that the BS was meant to be the best means of acquiring it. Getting enough VP via pvm is already possible, I've done it myself, and I found it very viable.

You love to continue to deny that VP was created as the reward currency of the pvp reward system, even when it is so blatantly obvious that it was created explicitly for that purpose. Take VP out of the game, and we no longer have a functioning pvp reward system...interesting. VP isn't just 'part' of the pvp reward system...it is the glue holding the whole thing together.

[Hacre]

More win than on a pirate ship full of pirates

Ah, welcome back Vlain, its been a while.

[PhoenixOfAges]

I barely touched the topic of VP in my posts but you two centred your entire posts on the matter, yet I'm the one that's trying to bring this thread it to that topic? As I said before you're trolls looking to start a fight on that topic, I'll discuss the matter but you're not looking to do that, just provoke and annoy others with hostile posts. Since you're not looking to discuss the matter, I presented my reasoning for my request and you two have only gone to prove the validity of part of that reasoning by looking to start a fight on the VP issue.

By the way, I'm a guy. I just like the look of the avatar image I'm using.