Why the Jobe Explorer Personal Pistol is bad for Adventurers

[Soosis]

stuff...

you have enough FA skill to fire MORE than 10 bullets, which the clip is atm, hence your Skill isnt the bottleneck, its the clipsize, as you cant fire more than 10 rounds from a clip of 10. ;P

[Gunfytr]

Iirc, its fa skill + pistol skill/2, for FA results...After 10K, damage IS reduced...so, next to impossible to cap 15K with JEPP. WTB bigger magazine!!

[dummydoo]

you have enough FA skill to fire MORE than 10 bullets, which the clip is atm, hence your Skill isnt the bottleneck, its the clipsize, as you cant fire more than 10 rounds from a clip of 10. ;P

ok , please give me the formula to test

[dummydoo]

Iirc, its fa skill + pistol skill/2, for FA results...After 10K, damage IS reduced...so, next to impossible to cap 15K with JEPP. WTB bigger magazine!!

also true but will we ever get enough FA skill to land enough Bullets no matter clip size to cap? that is the question

[dummydoo]

some rough testing, ill be doing more proper testing with notes on exacly how much +damamge i start with etc.

With bigburger on backyard leets 16clip

You hit with 12 bullets...
You hit Leet for 10460 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 16 bullets...
You hit Leet for 11890 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 16 bullets...
You hit Leet for 11890 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 16 bullets...
You hit Contagious Rollerrat for 11890 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 2 bullets...
You hit Eleet for 1820 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 1 bullet... 
You hit Leet for 910 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 16 bullets...
You hit Eleet for 11890 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 16 bullets...
You hit Leet for 11890 points of Full Auto damage.

with frenzy 
You hit with 16 bullets...
You hit Leet for 12134 points of Full Auto damage.
with frenzy

You hit with 16 bullets...
You hit Leet for 12134 points of Full Auto damage.

with about +310 more damamge

You hit with 16 bullets...
You hit Eleet for 13358 points of Full Auto damage.

Switched to jobe pistol

You hit with 10 bullets...
You hit Eleet for 13512 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 10 bullets...
You hit Eleet for 13512 points of Full Auto damage.

with frenzy
You hit with 10 bullets...
You hit Eleet for 13665 points of Full Auto damage.


Now with Galahad Inc T70 Tsuyoshi 25clip

You hit with 20 bullets...
You hit Eleet for 14315 points of Full Auto damage.


You hit with 20 bullets...
You hit Eleet for 14315 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 20 bullets...
You hit Leet for 14620 points of Full Auto damage.

You hit with 20 bullets...
You hit Leet for 14315 points of Full Auto damage.

Notes: now as u can see +dammage helps a bit, as does clip size however it doesn't doesn't make that big a difference.

and no matter how hard i tried i could not hit for more than 20bullets max. my FA is 1588 atm.

let me ask you guys a question. when a trader? sacrifices do u hit 15k on a backyard leet? try with the 25clip pistol.

i really would love to try this with a ql100 shark however once again farming clumps is really low on my to do list.

[cacat]

I don't know if anyone noticed,but you can't seem to hit for more then your FA/weapon skill+aao (in total divided by 100) or something like that...Or maybe its just FA+AAO
Soldiers don't hit 30 bullet FAs,but Coen once twinked 3k(i think?) FA and he scored 30 bullets,that seems to be the max.
And most soldiers will put out 28-29 bullets,maybe 30 with OSB(hm/keeper aura or wrangle).

I can't say that it is FOR A FACT,i can say i noticed the link,so take my post with a pinch of salt.

[heartless888]

I don't know if anyone noticed,but you can't seem to hit for more then your FA/weapon skill+aao (in total divided by 100) or something like that...Or maybe its just FA+AAO
Soldiers don't hit 30 bullet FAs,but Coen once twinked 3k(i think?) FA and he scored 30 bullets,that seems to be the max.
And most soldiers will put out 28-29 bullets,maybe 30 with OSB(hm/keeper aura or wrangle).

I can't say that it is FOR A FACT,i can say i noticed the link,so take my post with a pinch of salt.

FA bullets is calculated like this, 5 bullets + FAskill/100, so 1 bullet every 100 skill +5 bullets static


coen twinked 2500 FA skill for 30 bullets, which was huge back then, i personaly have 2410 full auto skill and hit for 29 bullets


5 + 2400/100 = 29


so keeper aura or wrangle dosnt do squat on that, btw

[cacat]

FA bullets is calculated like this, 5 bullets + FAskill/100, so 1 bullet every 100 skill +5 bullets static


coen twinked 2500 FA skill for 30 bullets, which was huge back then, i personaly have 2410 full auto skill and hit for 29 bullets


5 + 2400/100 = 29


so keeper aura or wrangle dosnt do squat on that, btw

I was on to something after all ;p

[dummydoo]

All tests with "Galahad Inc T70 Tsuyoshi" QL 104. clip size 30

asked a fixer friend with 1535 FA. 

with 1 bullet

You hit with 1 bullet...  You hit Leet for 923 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 1 bullet...  You hit Leet for 923 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 1 bullet...  You hit Eleet for 941 points of Full Auto damage. 

20 clip pistol with full clip

You hit with 20 bullets... You hit Leet for 12800 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 20 bullets... You hit Leet for 12865 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 20 bullets... You hit Leet for 12749 points of Full Auto damage.

now with FA buff- 1655

You hit with 21 bullets... You hit Eleet for 13093 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 21 bullets... You hit Eleet for 13023 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 21 bullets... You hit Leet for 13077 points of Full Auto damage.


now with a solda whose +dammge i will twink(as much as possible) to match the fixers- 1852

You hit with 1 bullet...  You hit Leet for 911 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 1 bullet...  You hit Eleet for 916 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 1 bullet...  You hit Eleet for 916 points of Full Auto damage. 
You hit with 1 bullet...  You hit Eleet for 926 points of Full Auto damage

FUll cip
You hit with 23 bullets... You hit Leet for 13211 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 23 bullets... You hit Leet for 13104 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 23 bullets... You hit Leet for 13216 points of Full Auto damage.

now with 1992 FA
You hit with 24 bullets... You hit Eleet for 13274 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 24 bullets... You hit Eleet for 13473 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 24 bullets... You hit Leet for 13716 points of Full Auto damage.

so in conclusion it's obvious number of bullets does relate to FA skill.

now how the Q's i have -
1.If they increase the clip of Jepp will it do 15k?
2.IS there a hard cap to the dammge these guns can do?
3.why is a hawk able to cap 15k ? - well acaully got an answer for this already- it seems a hawk simply hits for way to much per bullet. but then.... it comes to my last Q
4. if i get sacrifice from a trader will i then be able to do 15k with jepp or?

so more testing yet

edit: lol wish heartless888 had posted before i started testing, but nm. it's good to confim. my Q's still stand though

[erozc]

I won't comment on the FA skill needed and how many bullets they produce, but the soldier forum has an informative thread on full autos over 10k:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=520480

Basically, the thread has three conclusions:

• Bullets in full auto can crit
• Damage is nerfed to 1/2 from 10k to 11.5K
• Damage is nerfed to 1/4 from 11.5K to 15K

Edit: I had a bug in my calc in this section, edited for accuracy - thank you Camar

So from this data we can make the conclusion that putting enough bullets on the JEPP would help us reach 15K full autos in ideal situations. Consider a 1500 normal hit from a JEPP - 10 bullets will not produce a 15K full auto as I think all are aware. What's needed really is 10k+1.5k*(1/2)+3.5k*(1/4) = 27.000 non-nerfed damage. Basically this means a 2.7K hit from JEPP for each 10 bullets, by crits or otherwise.

On the other hand, if the JEPP had 15 bullets, only 1800 damage would be needed for normal hits. Also, this would mean that if you don't want to spam reload before every FA, firing only 13 bullets at a time, 2077 damage would be needed per hit.

Edit: One thing to consider is how likely advys will be to land consistent 15 bullet full autos as well...

So in the end, answers to questions presented in the last post:


1.If they increase the clip of Jepp will it do 15k?

Maybe, see above post.

2.IS there a hard cap to the dammge these guns can do?

I don't think there is a gun-specific hard cap for damage.

3.why is a hawk able to cap 15k ?

More bullets, better damage per bullet.

4. if i get sacrifice from a trader will i then be able to do 15k with jepp or?

Yeah, hit 2k damage per bullet and you should be there.

Please correct me if you find any errors.

[dummydoo]

great post eroz. ill test and let u know

i already answered my hawk Question myself though.

however i am curious to see if there is a hard-cap involved there as well. so for that i shall get my fixer friend to use a ql200 hawk with 10bullets and sacrifice running

[Jihla]

Am I the only person who feels that spitting out 15K full autos every 11th second is something that should be left to soldiers?

I'm happy with the damage potential of the JEPP. I really am! But... You need high FA skill to make it reliable, and as it has been stated countless of times you just can't get enough FA to make it reliable enough. And it's very add dmg dependant, and the #1 concern for me here is the missing support for dual Arul Sabas. Think that's the main reason why JPGPP/KMP5 soldiers were dealing so much damage: They had the add damge AND the FA skill to make it more reliable.

[dummydoo]

pointwise

Am I the only person who feels that spitting out 15K full autos every 11th second is something that should be left to soldiers?

that's u'r opinion and you are entitled to it. i respect that.

I'm happy with the damage potential of the JEPP. I really am! But... You need high FA skill to make it reliable, and as it has been stated countless of times you just can't get enough FA to make it reliable enough.

maby, thats what im doing the tests for.

And it's very add dmg dependant, and the #1 concern for me here is the missing support for dual Arul Sabas. Think that's the main reason why JPGPP/KMP5 soldiers were dealing so much damage: They had the add damge AND the FA skill to make it more reliable.

see my thread about using dual saba's so bye bye ur concern. it's not easy, in fact it's a pain in the but it is possible.

linky -
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=522225

as for the pistol soldas.. they are dead u know. ominous isn't it?

[Ocene]

2.IS there a hard cap to the dammge these guns can do?

I don't think there is a gun-specific hard cap for damage.

I think there is, it's 15K (speaking about FA damage cap).
Some backyards shooting using a DShark:

You hit Biofreak Carcass for 15000 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 9 bullets...

You hit 34-I Helper for 15000 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 28 bullets...

with a single crit of
You hit 34-I Helper for 4688 points of cold damage.Critical hit!

So clearly there is a damage cap.

The FA skill defines how many bullets you can fire, capped by the clip size.

The weapon damage (crits and normal) define how much damage each bullet will make. Damage halved at 10K and further halved at 11.5K.

Went back to the backyards but this time I used our version of the advy gun, the Jobe Portal Guard Personal Pistol.

With a FA skill of 2346, I was consistently hitting for:

You hit 34-I Helper for 12690 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 10 bullets...

You hit Biofreak Carcass for 12690 points of Full Auto damage.
You hit with 10 bullets...

(that's the full clip)

Adding some damage modifiers helped a bit. Suppressive Horde + Energize bumped the damage to 13190 points of Full Auto damage. With some insane damage mods, you might be able to reach 15K, but with classic setups the FA on those guns is in the order of 12K (not a cap, I concede).

But that's pretty much it. Problem is clearly the clip not being large enough.

Concerning the JEPP, increasing the clip will only help a bit though, because your bottleneck will then become the FA skill required to fire more bullets.

Sorry if I wasn't very clear during my chat with Dg, but was AI raiding at the same time.

[erozc]

I think there is, it's 15K (speaking about FA damage cap).

You misunderstood me a little bit - yes, the Full Auto attack definitely seems to be capped at 15k. However, all guns that have full auto are most likely to share the same cap of 15k, theoretically (if you can reach the damage and bullet count needed).

[wolfmyth]

Even a 15 bullet clip would help greatly, as then we don't have to reload before a FA. I would be happy with 9+ bullets in the clip before you can fire your next FA. Yes I'm lazy to double reload before every FA.

[Gunfytr]

Special damage hardcaps are:
FA 15K
Burst 13K
Fling 13K (not that u'll ever see THAT)
AS 13K

That MAX damage each special can do in a PvM situation.

[Fifty50]

Even a 15 bullet clip would help greatly, as then we don't have to reload before a FA. I would be happy with 9+ bullets in the clip before you can fire your next FA. Yes I'm lazy to double reload before every FA.

I my opinion reloading before FA is plain stupid, because it takes time. I assume u loose 1 regular shot from reloading, just by time spendt.

So if u hit over 10k FA, those 1-2 extra bullets only does 1/3 of the damage they did if fired as regulars, so it still adds up to less.

On top of that, it is typical in my experience that even if u do reload, half of the time u score lower than 10 bullet FAs anyway.. loose-loose situation imho.

Dont reload, but do try to get that FA off as soon as possible.

[dummydoo]

I my opinion reloading before FA is plain stupid, because it takes time. I assume u loose 1 regular shot from reloading, just by time spent.

So if u hit over 10k FA, those 1-2 extra bullets only does 1/3 of the damage they did if fired as regulars, so it still adds up to less.

On top of that, it is typical in my experience that even if u do reload, half of the time u score lower than 10 bullet FAs anyway.. loose-loose situation imho.

Don't reload, but do try to get that FA off as soon as possible.

well the shot you do loose is generally from the JEPP it's self so it's not that big a deal. also I've noticed with DDumper that the JEPP does a lesser number of regular shots anyways.

so yeah reload before you cap recharge after... don't really matter

edit: thanks for the post and clarification ocene

[erozc]

Special damage hardcaps are:
FA 15K
Burst 13K
Fling 13K (not that u'll ever see THAT)
AS 13K

Now, maybe us advys should just get rid of the JEPP and its erratic full auto and stop asking for an upgrade to that. Let's start asking for a gun that is capable of consistent 10K+ fling and burst with possibilities to cap them too.

After all, we get so many fling shot buffing things in the recent patches...