Letter from the Game Director: 14 January 2008

[Hacre]

Errrrrrr how about we just make it IMPOSSIBLE for someone 24 (TWENTY-Four) levels higher ... to be ABLE to kill me? That way he wont have to kill me 3 times instead of one.... Thinking BS here...

C'mon what business does a 174 have killing a 150.. what chance does the average 150 have?

I can hold me own with 165s but beyond that, its pointless!!

You could always turret up and exploit crat stun procs.

[BigT]

OH GREAT!!!! I get to go back to the old... Need out of BS, go to exit toon 20 levels above me kills me while trying to exit... back to buff room... run out.. try to exit... toon 20 levels above kills me AGAIn.. OVER AND OVER until I finalyl decide to log out.. except it takes 30 secs to log out and by that time a TEAM of Omnis find me sitting and kill me and back to buff room again...

YAY! JOY .............FAIL

You can just stand still for 3 minutes and go grab something to drink, you'll be auto-AFKd and outside by the time you come back...

[Thymoglobul]

ABOUT DUEL TITLES

It is maybe a good idea to have no penality for death in BS or NW.
But this clearly should not be the case in duels. Someone already sugested it, but I'd like to insist. The title system for duels should include a penality for death.

All the point of a duel is to kill or die. With the new duel system, preventing escape, the old title system is a lot more meaningfull.
Something like the ELO ratting used for chess would be very good.

You should introduce a way to declare it a draw. Yes it happens, when it is clear after some time that none of the duelist can kill the other. Doc vs Doc anyone?

A vast majority of the players are doing duels with no outside buff allowed. I bet on at least 95%. Make a poll, you'll see.


ABOUT TEAM TITLES

I am convinced that in a team PvP environment, players will not want to avoid death at all means like in solo, especially if you still get the points for a kill from your team even after your own death.
In a team, you have your teamate looking at you and waiting for you to play your role. If you slack, you'll not stay in team.
So keep the death penality for team PvP as well. Maybe only in case of a complete team wipe. But please keep the title related to skill and not grind.


Anyways, it is good to see Funcom is putting a lot of efforts on this subjet. Good luck with this hard task :-)

[gonegone]

If the death numbers are visible people will avoid dying at any cost just as much as they do now. If the kill numbers are visible people will farm their alts just as much as they do now.

Having the best kill/death ratios will be the real epeen-booster in this system rather than the actual titles.

best post in this thread.

read it. take action.

[Imnotamonkey]

If the death numbers are visible people will avoid dying at any cost just as much as they do now. If the kill numbers are visible people will farm their alts just as much as they do now.

Having the best kill/death ratios will be the real epeen-booster in this system rather than the actual titles..

Yeah can't help but agree....

This doesn't jibe with what Phar said about making death have no consequence...

I have watched people use their RK beacons and abandon their team and mission just to keep from having a "Killed by Aliens: " number , they are going to do the same in PvP if this goes into effect...

* On-the-whole, they look like pretty good changes, congrats for that, they will be a hit I'm sure (those solo level name do have to go though)

[RedWobe]

holy god I just noticed there's going to be a visible kill/death count, what a horrible freaking idea. Are they trying to kill PvP once and for all?

[mongomad]

not really the updates i wanted, however interesting or needed they may be.

FIX TEH LAG !!!

[ajukusoja]

You've left out the most important part to fixing orbital strikes....

• Players will now have to be in the level range of the Notum Wars Towers field in order to place a beacon. (+/- 20% of the middle tower field PvP Range)
• Players whom leave the suppression gas or the zone will no longer be able to use any beacon they've previously placed. (Similar to pets aborting their fights when owner is out of range)

runnin a few calcs, (i dont say its a bad idea, but more than it must be twinked a bit)

field ql 200-300, mid lvl 250

250-20 = lvl 230 now its time for 10 more lvls only for troxes, just to compensate lack of brains with lvls

Edit: oh sh!t didnt saw the %, i need coffee badly, but still the lvl idea stayz

[Jenshiye]

PVP and death
If it’s imperative you don’t die then you don’t take as many risks.

Diminishing returns
... ‘farming’ their kills. ... we can minimize its effectiveness and make it more difficult. ... the more you target the same person the less reward you get for doing so.

...Players can choose to concede the duel by typing /duel stop. This counts as losing the duel.

It is fighting despite the risk that makes you brave, so they are only highlighting what cowards they are. With dimished returns and people can concede defeat do you need to remove death penalties?

"Cowards kill their enemies - for they fear them. Maim them to teach them a lesson but preserve life."

Otherwise:

*applauds loudly*

(Keep death penalty and I might start PvPing.

P.S. /concede should pause the fight and pop a yes or no dialogue to the dominator. They may really, really want to kill that darn ganker now they they have logged a twink! [being a once only per fight command

[Nanofox1]

Sorry for reposting this but I really want to hear what there is to say about lack of deminishing returns on BS. (feel free to answer the rest on top of page 11 though).

Diminishing returns

This system will not apply in the battlestation as we feel that in that environment where you have a limited number of opponents in a very specific scenario where people are dying and returning quickly its not particularly fair to not reward you for your kills there.

Diminishing returns is needed on the BS badly, or like I said above everyone will rush to 'squishy' profs and ignore the tough ones. This will just result in alot of profs not going to battlestation because they are just a huge target to be zerged constantly for an easy +1 to kill count or point for next title.


Should we all roll advs and keepers now in preperation?

[emergency56]

Sorry for reposting this but I really want to hear what there is to say about lack of deminishing returns on BS. (feel free to answer the rest on top of page 11 though).



Diminishing returns is needed on the BS badly, or like I said above everyone will rush to 'squishy' profs and ignore the tough ones. This will just result in alot of profs not going to battlestation because they are just a huge target to be zerged constantly for an easy +1 to kill count or point for next title.


Should we all roll advs and keepers now in preperation?

hummm thats odd thats what i did before the patch!!!! so nothing changes for me...

i mean really... how many people here see a soldi and go!!! OMG I WANNA FIGHT AND DIE TO THAT SOLDI..... besides traders <_> when i see a soldier.... i spam my macro .. "Soldiers suck, kthkbyi" and run away...

[Undead_Army]

WTB Desperate Dan!

Scuba Steve 4 lyfe!

[Hacre]

Should we all roll advs and keepers now in preperation?

Nah man, soldiers. There's enough advs/keepers to keep NTs/Traders at bay with the "zerg the squishy" encouragement. That done, soldiers won't have much to fear.

[emergency56]

btw wtf up with the visible kill/death count????

IN BS i ninja... its whats i do, i run around like a jackass ninja-ing points like mad and not only helping my team win but i'd say 50% of wins are due to mass ninja-ing on one of the sides... and that is a part of BS, if you can't stay and defend it like a man i'll ninja it ;D

but with the death count that everyone can see after 2hours of ninja-ing....

2kills/56785403deaths...


guess i still won't pvp... can't wait till i can get farmed at tara by the own side i fight for

PS: WTB KILL/DEATH COUNT VISABLE TO PLAYER ONLY!!! not other players.... other then that stupid thing you guys came up with i like the rest you guys really do read the forums... ;0 NOW fix bio coon ;p

[Mavritanic]

hummm thats odd thats what i did before the patch!!!! so nothing changes for me...

i mean really... how many people here see a soldi and go!!! OMG I WANNA FIGHT AND DIE TO THAT SOLDI..... besides traders <_> when i see a soldier.... i spam my macro .. "Soldiers suck, kthkbyi" and run away...

no, all be roll to keepers - thats prof is in unkillable mode 95% of time and can alfa all (who know prof whot can kill keeper easy?)

[Ciggie]

As I mentioned in the last letter, ... what it means to a PVP system.

All good, down to business.

PVP and death

There will be no consequences to death in terms of your new PVP score.

There, I said it. (Please do read on though before you jump to the ‘post’ button on the forums!) So are we copping out and making it ‘meaningless’ by not incorporating loss with death? I honestly don’t believe that or we wouldn’t be doing it. Having a death penalty for PVP, let alone a harsh one, means that it becomes a focus for players more than actually taking part in the action. If it’s imperative you don’t die then you don’t take as many risks, you don’t commit yourself fully to the action, and when you multiply that out over many people taking part it leads to the situation we saw all too often up till now where it was more important to players to very selectively pick their targets and not risk anything. At the end of the day we thought overall that was counter-productive to a more enjoyable PVP environment.

I think the original PVP title system that was introduced back in the day had very genuine intentions behind it, and in a ‘perfect world’ it would even sound like a very good system, and in many respects it served to provide something that some players have found enjoyable to varying degrees down the years. However with the wonderful tool of hindsight I think its fair to say that it had one inherent flaw – it placed far too much importance on not dying. This was the cornerstone of the choice that we were faced with when considering changing the PVP system. We went through various ways to try and consider how to handle death, but at the end of the day we couldn’t avoid the fact that the way with the least possible complications and possible exploits was to not have death affect your PVP progress.

So how does the system actually work?

Oh man that sounds cool for most cases, but theres nothing more satisfying than purposedly hunting down a nemesis till they feel sorry they stepped ure way, and now that even has no meaning since u cant deprive them of their epeen, err titles.

The New Ranks

As mentioned in the previous letter there will be three separate progressions for you to take part in with the new system. Solo PVP, Team PVP and Duels.

You will be able to choose which title is visible on your character (also selectable will be your ‘legacy’ pre-17.8 title if you had one).

Players will now have a series of new stats visible in their character sheet that display the number of solo kills and deaths, team kills and deaths and Duel kills and deaths. Each relevant kill also provides you with a score that is added to your total for that form of PVP (you can look on it as PVP exp as it were) and that score allows you to proceed up the available ranks for that form of PVP.

The score for each kill will be based on a calculation between your level and your targets levels. The bigger the difference the more or less points you will receive for killing that player depending on whether you are higher or lower than them in level.

If you are in a team (or killed by a team) the score is credited to your team score (and kill / death listing) as a team-kill rather than a solo-kill. Who is credited with the kill is decided by who does the most damage to the target.

So what are the ranks themselves?

Solo Ranks

· shodan

· nidan

· sandan

· yodan

· godan

· rokudan

· nanadan

· hachidan

· kudan

· judan

Team Ranks

· Scout

· Suppressor

· Captain

· Tactician

· Leader

· Commander

· General

· Distinguished

· Honored

· Hero

Duel Ranks

· Student

· Freshman

· Rookie

· Apprentice

· Novice

· Neophyte

· Veteran

· Experienced

· Expert

· Champion

Sounds good, finally something to reward low title skilled players who kill high titles players, and to encourage pack hunting.

But the solo PVP names? please change in the name of everythign holy O.o

Special Titles
There are two special titles available. If a player has max rank in both solo and team ranks then they are called a ‘Combat Master’ if they are max rank in all three rankings then they are called a ‘Grand Master’.

Does FC enjoy giving players a epeenifying status to boost our alternate ego? lol.
Good idea but if no one looses for dieing, how long have u anticipated till everyone and their neighbours mama get Grand Master?

Dueling

The final available ladder of progression will be for the new duel mode. Players will now be able to duel another player by targeting them and typing /duel which will send a duel invitation to the other player. (There will be an F10 option to auto-refuse duels so as to prevent people spamming this window on you)

Once a duel is accepted the fight starts and a beacon is placed on the ground. Players will have to remain within a certain radius of the beacon or they will forfeit the duel (this is to prevent players hiding far way to prevent them from losing). Players who zone or otherwise ‘evac’ will also count as having lost the duel.

Duels will be possible in any 75% or 100% zone, if you are in a 25% zone then the normal PVP system apply and duels are not possible (to avoid people being able to use duels to avoid the consequences of being in a PVP enabled area). You will be able to duel anyone regardless of their side.

When in duel mode you cannot be aided by outside heals or buffs. Any buffs applied before the duel starts though will still be valid as we felt this was part of PVP set-up that was important to players who enjoy this aspect of PVP.

Players can choose to concede the duel by typing /duel stop. This counts as losing the duel.

The duel ends when a player is reduced to 1hp. This means that you don’t actually die and have to go through reclaim. Be warned though mobs ignore the duel mode and will still attack and fight you as normal, so find a safe spot to duel! Again this was required to prevent people from abusing duel mode as a means of navigating dangerous areas.

As mentioned above your number of duel kills and deaths will also be visible in your character display.

Sounds good

Diminishing returns

With a PVP system that awards points for kills one issue that always crops up is people ‘farming’ their kills. While we can’t hope to get rid of the practice entirely (we have enough experience to know by now that enterprising players will always find some way to try it), we can minimize its effectiveness and make it more difficult. With this in mind 17.8 will also see the introduction of a system of diminishing returns. That is to say the more you target the same person the less reward you get for doing so.

This system works by remembering whom you have killed over a time period and awarding you less points for subsequent deaths. Each kill is remembered for four hours, and each subsequent kill of the same person results is a reduced reward until eventually the reward is almost nothing in terms of points (after five kills or so, although that number may be tweaked during testing).

This system will not apply in the battlestation as we feel that in that environment where you have a limited number of opponents in a very specific scenario where people are dying and returning quickly its not particularly fair to not reward you for your kills there.

4 hours is not good, make it indefinite, since 4hrs is too short to avoid exploiting, and the only reason people duel same people over and over in short times is fun and BS, or training. In either case BS is covered and fun PVP shouldnt reward anything but experience imho, so please make it longer recharges.

Notum Wars Changes

Not really a fan of NW but u seen to have heard the people in some points, which is always good.

Battlestation AFK / Evac Changes

While hopefully the new systems will not incentivise people to feel the need to ‘evac’ as much one final note of changes for 17.8 comes in the form of a change to the /afk function. It will no longer be possible to use the manual /afk command while in the battlestation. The normal time-out version will still work, but you will not be able to use it as an instant escape anymore.

Great, now Im happy.

Conclusion

So there you have it, a rundown of the PVP changes for 17.8. I hope that this letter has explained things for everyone and we are looking forward to the testing and seeing these changes on the live dimensions. As I have said before we realize that PVP is a very dynamic element of the game, and fully expect that some of these things will need tweaking during testing, and more then likely after we have gone live with it as well once we see how players adapt to the new systems. So there are exciting times ahead for PVP and we are all very excited to see how they work out.

Sounds good, maybe I might bother to actually log in after all

[Autofil]

Awesome changes!

Only thing I dont realy like is the solo titles....
It would be awesome if the Solo titles could be proffesion and maybe side specific.

You guys at funcom could arrange a contest where the one coming up with best sudgestion for either side or proffesion wins a free gamecard or something....
There are alot of creative minds around on rubi-ka, why not put them to use?


i.e.

Fixer titles:
Clan - Neut - Omni


If not try to make them proffesion spesific please.







Anyway, BUMP for awesome changes!

[Vanzen]

Is there something I ve missed ?
No death penalty, no way to loose a title, but a diminishing return over a certain period if you kill the same personn over and over ?
Ok, so what prevent, lets say, 20 people, or better, a whole guild, to meet every day and duel every other, once loosing and once winning to gain rank ?
Thats whats happenned in SWG with the old Jedi ranking system before it was taken out due to this exploit ...
I just dont see the point of the new pvp system, it will show nothing whatsoever; the title will be pointless ...

[ukn0wme]

Is there something I ve missed ?
No death penalty, no way to loose a title, but a diminishing return over a certain period if you kill the same personn over and over ?
Ok, so what prevent, lets say, 20 people, or better, a whole guild, to meet every day and duel every other, once loosing and once winning to gain rank ?
Thats whats happenned in SWG with the old Jedi ranking system before it was taken out due to this exploit ...
I just dont see the point of the new pvp system, it will show nothing whatsoever; the title will be pointless ...

needed some change, can't copy/paste the whole duel system from wow

[Rewo]

The diminishing returns timer needs to be a lot longer. I would suggest something like 1 week, 4 hours is way too short.

Also, it just occurred to me that maybe future rewards will cost 'pvp score' and that system will serve to lower peoples titles as they cash them in. If not, then some system like decay is a must. Will be silly to have everyone running around with the same top title.