Letter from the Game Director: 14 January 2008

[Ober]

Just because someone has to camp/twink/farm for an alt, doesn't make them unworthy of a pvp title

It means they're not PvP'n tho

[Vlain]

la de da

{...snip}A PVP TITLE SYSTEM WHERE YOU CANNOT LOSE A TITLE IS NOT ACTUALLY A TITLE SYSTEM{snip...}

QFT, agree 100%

[Balneator]

It means they're not PvP'n tho

While you're not at work, does your title and salary go down?

[Ober]

While you're not at work, does your title and salary go down?

Nope, but I get older, and new people enter my profession(s). + I get slower and more experienced.

"Theres always someone better, or someone younger."

[Sterva]

aren't those solo titles basically counting in japanese? lol maybe i'm way off there, but i dated a japanese girl one time and i seem to remember 1-10 sounding something like that.

not that anyone cares about my seal of approval, but i think those are all good changes that have a lot of potential to solve some real problems with AO pvp. just change the solo titles to something more fitting. O.o

Like, say, the names of my alts progressing to my main? I can PM you with a full list if need be.

[RedWatr]

I haven't read the entire thread and responses yet, so forgive me if it's been mentioned...

Would be decent of you guys to make it so that when we're dueling same faction that our AOE heals, etc. wouldn't help out our opponent. Not that I agree with landing points for killing same faction, but we all like a nice duel and like to practice fairly.

Also, I don't see how ANY solo person in BS would have a chance against even the gimpiest of teams in BS from this patch forth...maybe it's time to consider changes in the way teams are made for BS..max 3 person teams seems like a good alternative, giving a fleeting chance to those who wish to remain solo, or can't find a team.

6 person teams with the new blockers/buffs just seems a bit much, overkill even. This alone would keep alot of people from even trying BS imo.

[Silentslashy]

aren't those solo titles basically counting in japanese? lol maybe i'm way off there, but i dated a japanese girl one time and i seem to remember 1-10 sounding something like that.

not that anyone cares about my seal of approval, but i think those are all good changes that have a lot of potential to solve some real problems with AO pvp. just change the solo titles to something more fitting. O.o

Like, say, the names of my alts progressing to my main? I can PM you with a full list if need be.

LOL!

Yes i want to be Sterva Silentslash

please make this possible FC!

[Rewo]

I do think it is kind of silly to not be able to lose your title at all and can see why some people don't like the decay idea. The problem is you can't please everyone with a new system. No matter which way they decide to go it will be an improvement however.

Leaving the old mechanic in place for losing titles doesn't address what they are trying to do, which is getting people to avoid death at all costs.

A decay system isn't perfect either but I think it could be argued that it would give the new titles a little more meaning. It would mean that anyone with a high title is currently active in PvP. It also gives a reason for people to remain active in pvp and keep coming to BS long after they have all their VP. Having a way to show the highest title you have ever had might soften that blow a little, maybe a grayed out title or something, similar concept to leaving in legacy title options. At least with a decay system we won't reach a point where everyone eventually will get the top title.

Another option might be to leave the old title loss mechanic in place for the top title or two only in each category. This would leave an element of competition in place but would still largely eliminate title farming. It would also give much more meaning to holding the top title.

[Mastablasta]

Why is everyone talking about titles here, and the various names and so on? Don't people realise that after about 2 weeks, the lower titles won't even exist because it is impossible to actually lose a title?

Losing a title via decay is also a stupid system, unless the decay is sufficiently slow (as in "not playing/pvping for 6 months straight") slow, to decay perhaps ONE rank.

A PVP TITLE SYSTEM WHERE YOU CANNOT LOSE A TITLE IS NOT ACTUALLY A TITLE SYSTEM

It's not.

Implement title loss, equivalent to title gain, and as much as I hate duels, it needs to be put in, especially for duels. It doesnt make sense if everyone is a Grand Master Duellist, especially if some Grand Master Duellists have lost more duels than they have won.

It doesnt make sense.

Implement a way of losing title points through being defeated in PVP, otherwise there is simply no reason to have a title system at all.

Period.

Because every long since figured out that people don't want to lose titles and therefore in this new system where anyone will get points from anyone these people won't want to come out of hiding in their BY untill after their flag is gone. Of course, they won't leave in the first place till they've farmed Duel titles to max on eachother first

AO is carebear max because people in the game can't behave. Simple as that. /duel has to be implemented because people don't like being ganked while dueling. And because people didn't like dying to duels, and instead did 25% duels. Oh no. Dying. Annoying, so avoided if at all possible. 1HP duels are rather nice now since it'll let people who wouldn't normally ever duel, duel, and progress at PVP, but generally, the problem with noone ever duelling was caused by the inability of others to behave. Almost all things carebear implemented in the game are there because people were too greedy, too spiteful, too full of themselves or just plain retarded. Blame the community, don't blame the developers.

[TheCookie]

Jinchuuriki or Kyubi should be top solo pvp rank imo

[Balneator]

Some good ideas by rewo, i like the "display the top title i had" option, though not sure if it would be possible to grey it out, i know arks can change whole player name colours but not sure about just the title section. Maybe the colour code the same as pets have would work?

[Infinitynova]

Has anyone else noticed that everyone will eventually be running around with Grandmaster and the the Pvp system still doesn't show the "true" skill of a person Pvp'ing?

It's true that it's been close to impossible to make a title accurate in terms of showing the skills of a person. So why not work around that and show something else? Like his dedication to pvp, likes, dislikes, strenghts, weaknesses and axis? Is your opponant actif in Duels Team Pvp, Solo? And this would be quite easy


2 Small modifications would bring a world of wonders.

A replacement of "Kills" and "Deaths" to a simple "Power Level" (Or something)
A tickdown for inactivity in the 3 domains (duel,solo,team) to the "Power Level"


-When you kill someone your "Power Level" goes up. (With the new Pvp Calculations that are used to show the title, why not simply show the calculations as the "Power Level"?)
-When you die nothing happens
-When you do nothing for a few weeks it slowly ticks down.

The Tick
It would be a slow tick but when you start getting to a higher Title Level it would speed up a bit. Meaning the limit is the limit you want to activly pvp in and it defines you for who you are.




Exemple:

Solo: Player 1: Solo Power level 1450 (1450 being lets say the 2nd rank in the ladder) Vs Player 2: Solo Power level 2350 (Being 3rd rank for instance)

The 2 fight, player 1 wins and increases to 1866, Player 2 remains the same.

1 week of inactivity in Solo Pvp bring Player 1 down to 1720 (or something)




This modification would have the following postive affects:

-Knowledge of a player's Pvp axes (Solo, Duels, Team) along with his sphere of Activity within what he does(since inactivity brings the level down a bit). That means you won't see someone doing Mass Pvp, Mass Dueling and Mass Soloing just to say "Ok I'm done, nothing left to do, I'm god"

-Incredibly more accurate view of the player's real pvp activities in game with thier skills, strenghts, weaknesses and axis in all domains: Being open and completly vulnerable for others to see you as you are is a much more enjoyable experience. To only do team pvp intensivly once just to get the maximum title and then to not team pvp for a year is a false representation of who the player is.

-No Kill Counts: Showing how much you kill someone feeds the ego way too much and you'll have the gloater running around killing everyone and showing how good he is. Being too postive about pvp will also have a negative effect and would in the long run discourage Pvp for others that will "never catch up" to the elites and thier mad numbers.

-No Death Counts: Seeing the deaths will only limit the amount of people wishing to activly do any pvp at all. If you want to motivate people into Pvp'ing don't make them realize they will lose something or will be laughed at. Encourage them to pvp more and more and more and become active.

-And of course it would avoid the fact that everyone will be with the same "Grandmaster" Pvp title within a month

[UnleashedFURY]

I hardly wait, the new title system, and hurray for removing afk from bs.

[Vlain]

Helen(Elastigirl): Everyone's special Dash.

Dash: Which is another way of saying no one is.

...

Syndrome: *Everyone* can be Super! And when everyone's Super...[chuckles evilly] No one will be.

[RedWatr]

title gains could be ratio (death vs. kills) dependant after a point...e.g.- after the fourth title, you need a consistant 1:1 win/kill ratio to gain any points, after fifth title, you need 2:1; or some breakdown of that model.

would be some work figuring out and testing for a fair ratio/% of wins/losses necessary, but it seems like this would more be more indicative of someone pvp prowess than a straight shot to the top, regardless of how long it might take some.

[bungerman]

what about losing titles in the duel only mode? first off, if you never lose your title in this system, only for alittle while will people's titles be distinguishable. The actual good players will have higher titles quicker than the not so good players. Once everyone has challenged everyone enough though, they will all begin to blend together and you will no longer know who is actually good... which pretty much reminds me of the current pvp situation. As of now you have no way of knowing if someone's title is completely farmed, or if it was by (an example) dueling only and actually legit.

The determining factor with this new system of higher titles comes down to longevity and not skill. Even the n00biest player can eventually get the highest titles if there is no penalty, all it would take is time. More time than an actual good pvper, but once everyone becomes the highest title, how would anyone know except word of mouth or experience fighting them? The decaying title would alleviate some of this, but then again it would be back to who logs in the most and pvps most, not skill.

If you break down PvP to the fundamentals, first and foremost it is about fun. Secondly it IS about being able to kill someone else and not die. If you take that away and it's only about time played to gain these titles and not some sort of skill to separate good players from not so good players, there is no need for a title system to begin with.

[Xaun]

<Snip>

great post nicely formatted too. I agree with most of what you say here but have some things that have sorta dawned on me since.

edit: All battle station rules are a separate thing and would default to the team rule set while inside. It would play out the same as it would at a NW site in war gas. Anyone attackable by anyone of opposite side and no title gain/loss while under that ruleset, once flagged in combat a ruleset cannot change until all parties involved in the combat have ended ie no jumping to a duel to save yourself from dying solo just like joining a team cannot be done while in combat so same mechanics as whats already being used now. Just use the variables for a few more items.

Solo / Team PVP Titles & Rules
For team/solo pvp I agree it should be a number like you said a power level of sorts not a K/D ratio etc. And I think there should be a self flagging option you can turn on but to turn off has a 3-5 minute cool down as a hostile nano.. I am kind of thinking of it like this..

Team PVP Rewards & Penalties
A non degrading title and while teamed no other titles can be effected which will aid in the following described ideas. By making Team PVP its own this way and non degrading no one will be concerned over their deaths at NW/BS and will be encouraged to team in places where Teaming SHOULD HAPPEN MOST! See above and below for additional info.

Solo Title Rewards & Penalties
Solo PVP titles do degrade but have some other side effects to them. In my opinion one of the "rewards" *cough cough penalties* for getting these titles is a reduction of local area gas for you alone by 10-100% except when in land control areas where normal rules would apply or teamed. I believe that to engage ie attack first in this type of PVP both parties should have to remain un-teamed and be prevented from being teamed for 15-30 seconds or attack for 15-30s after dropping a team since this would also prevent farming off people. The dmg counter would reset if you drop team making team farming for solo kills not possible as well and making it compare team vs solo dmg to see who gets the kill credit. This will be basically making you reconsider if you want that solo title or not leaving only the most hard core of all people desiring to attain it as you will be basically always flagged even in backyards eliminating that problem as well. Mind you if it progressed slowly from a non titled beginner at 0% then moving down the line -10%, -20%, -30%, -40%, -50%, -60%, -70%, -80%, -90%, -100% it would slowly ease you in to this concept of being constantly flagged, allow most people to get and hold low end solo pvp titles still with a safety net but the more hardcore would have to truly put their monies where their mouths are and standing in bore waiting for someone to flag won't be an issue as people will be consenting to allow them self to be attacked anywhere anytime except the above mentioned and below detailed by others by gaining these titles and the subsequent tangible rewards such as items <see below>. If you looked at the existing map and augmented various "neglected" locations gas levels down like 5-15% 25-40% and put a few new Unique named Mobs nearby you would get open war tara in some areas that various titled level ranges only could play in because of how the gas would flag them. An example if you have a lvl 1 title you have -10% to all gas in every zone then you enter an area thats 75% you'd be really be at 65% gas (not sure how the engine handles non 0/25/50/75/100 numbers but would be a nice idea to implement this) the higher your title the less safe you are so basically if you have -50% and are in a 75% zone you'd really be at 25%... ^_~

Safety & Hacking / B&E Skill becoming useful
Then further this by making your home the only semi-safe spot you have in the game and your Org HQ the ONLY 100% safe spot... giving apts a further meaning making runners take one extra set of steps to that safe spot and then if your inside and flagged as in combat it enables someone with enough B&E skill to hack the door leaving it unlocked for a duration of say 5 minutes during which time the person running could not log out.. they'd have to keep running <see below>

Home Security == New In Game Money Sink
Mind you this could bring a new set of items into the game called home security systems such as improved home locks, inside mounted turrets *possibly considered a PVE death by a turret have to debate that xD*, which you could use as a huge money sink and add a whole new richness to interactivity with the current static world we exist in. I would also suggest allowing a VP or EXTREMELY expensive item on the luxury market called personal home grid that has an Apartment==1 type of check to it to be dropped on the ground making sure that it was placed inside their house. This item should be able to be "hacked" by a fixer based on their B&E skill vs the QL lvl of the devices "door/turrets/grid" and make a fixer hacking the grid instantly cause the person who hasn't used it yet to be stuck with a counter that slows down based on either B&E or Comp Lit. I don't pretend to know what a good B&E skill for a fixer is but I was thinking basically making it dependent on the QL of the Grid and give fixers an ability to hack the security items as well in the house. If the fixer hacks the grid before the person's hostile nano expires they break it making the person stuck there.. during this time both people are stunned. (this is called tactical as a fixer can hack the door temporarily making anyone able to follow so that you could get solo yet group based combat as people try to lure hunters into ambushes and hunters form parties to get them and those who could be waiting inside. If the persons comp lit + B&E is high enough it would increase the speed they access the grid making how it determines a winner based purely on character stat and modifiers.

Grid PVP
Then add something long over due to this game.. Grid PVP by allowing a fixer to chase someone into a grid with a robust set of actions and a persons Comp Lit be their defense with maybe a set of nanos or perks that are only useable in the grid based on their profession. Now imagine PVPing as nodes in the Fixer Grid based on Comp Lit & B&E with a special set of Hacker Titles.. I mean drool?

Org City Raid & Benefit loss
Just remove the loss of org benefits from the game utterly and make alien raids happen more randomly it would make world more impressive and dynamic because no one would bring pitchforks if these raids didn't end in silly penalties but instead just chaotic fun. This could lead to some of the most exciting game play in years as you would literally have chases that spanned the map and people hiding in their org HQ's rallying outside and battles nearby add in some random alien attacks and wallah!

Possible Carebear option
A security measure to prevent to much camping of people with titles would be only allowing someone of the same or within 1 level of your title level engage in this openly flagged 24/7 % based system I am proposing so that the best can't farm the worst.

Kills = Karma +/- to title and ganker titles ie negatively aligned
To further this is the karma effect of how killing of a opposing side/same side effects your total points. Obviously since the old system does not track this it would have to start everyone at 0 but gankers would earn negative stats awarding them with nefariously themed titles that would color thier personality. The penalty for killing your same side should be somewhere between 200%-2000% of the normal value of a kill for the other side so that people would truly think twice before ganking unless they really wanted to earn a nefarious title such as cutthroat or sabetuer etc..

Title Display Suggestions
To identify these people you could introduce a color name or flag (see below) shift of the sides normal color scheme based on brightness as each side is already represented by a color and people have been asking for colored names for ages anyway why not do this and make NPC's names Bold and a completely different font so confusion could not occur at all.

An alternate idea would be to color code the flagged stars and make the stars part of the title.. basically saying you get your name to look like this:

^Title Name*

^Title Name**

^Title Name***

^^Title Name*

etc like chevrons in a military or use a real icon which I don't know if the engine can do but would be better. For negatively aligned ie.. same sided killers it could be:

vTitle Name* etc... This could allow you to combine two seperate titles in to one title because the chevrons and name title would not compete. Like say the ^ / * is the solo title system.. and the Title would be your team or legacy title.

<snip>

I agree with this alot and have something further to contribute. How about an honorable actions system "engine depending" such as known behaviors like entering a backyard/apt in my idea with low hp or all perks down would earn a negative scoring to this "power level" which would again discourage rotten behavior. Basically if people alt+f4 and don't return just like normal they would die so it would keep with the fairness of todays existing title system in regards to people trying to cheat by laming out.

Dueling system & Ladders
Additionally I was thinking about making the Dueling titles in actuality in to multiple game ladders. Like say.. you go to the Account screen or in game to the ICC to sign up for Arena combat "literally" which enters you into a ladder that would actually have an RP friendly basis such as the ICC Battle of the Gladiators: Rubi'ka! open to both clanners and omnis as well as their neutral hosts alike to make money off their private prides of self boasting glory since after all the ICC is a conglomerate of mega corps why not setup a circuit ring of Arenas. Tir arena would be a clan only ladder, Omni would have theirs in their arena, In a Jujuwalker / sirNegs / etc Neuty land special make one of these older long forgotten spots into a thriving new area by putting in an arena and then put it connected to one of the unused wompah routes and make it the storyline of a migration and resettling of "Borealis refugees/settlers" who don't agree with the ideals of Mayor Toog and being that they are enterprising neutrals decide to sponsor the neutral only ladder. Then periodically these three ladders would pit their top 5 contenders against each other in "Will 2 Fight Battle Royale" in with some unique item such as "Xaun's Soulbringer" where the person gets to pick what type of weapon / item it is and the devs generate it and then to the winner in an in game televised <see below> awards ceremony. Oh yeah and with ARK/GM presence as over seers and absolutely a must is to have a new GM 2 GM and ARK 2 ARK only flagging if it doesn't already exist and have you all compete for our viewing pleasure where you all agree to some basic guide lines to consider fair and show off some of those GM locked items in the database WTB CLASH OF THE TITANS GM STYLE RK RUMBLEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In game Adverstising board suggestions relating to Dueling & Ladders
In my opinion you should see about having a few cameras positioned in each of the arenas that have a filter applied that only displays people who are currently in a duel and where combat is occurring for all to see. Well those that have enabled the video advertising board capabilities making those boards useful. Then between the rotating segments from all globally active duels in each of the various arenas "some boards display clan only say in Tir but in OA they display global" then put the commercials followed the latest stats from the local and global ladders and profile shots of the contenders.. and just continuously rotate this cycle all day. I mean think about it.. people would be jumping all over the dueling just to get their name in lights and their smug mugs broadcast all over the game not to mention the other various rewards.

TO FUNCOM!! This will drastically increase your amount of viewed ads in game by subscribers as many pay account holders will enable the ad boards to be visible just to see these updates! Please give the ARK team some direct input controls to handle IC commercial rotations such as the fantastic contests you do by allowing players to spend either credits or points to have their own AD rotated along with your regular Advertising sponsors who should love this and I betcha few people would complain about you putting their adds on the actual web representation of these ladder boards. This should equal $$$$ to Funcom which translates to more resources to make better games for us!

Dueling Ladder Rewards / Socketed customizable armor
These particular ladders should have some sort of real rewards for those willing to put their name in those lights but it should reward those who do poorly in some part just not as quickly as those who are better which would only further their desire to improve them self but help them to get there and unlike the BS VP GEAR this gear should be ridiculously uber looking based on the new specs of the upcoming game engine yet to be released completely the opposite principal as what you have done by reducing the fanciness with LE core items. These items should have socketable type configurable stats allowing each person to chose the visual style and customize it the way they want it with stats. This will be basically eliminating the need for mix n match horrendous outfit combos that happen sometimes at all stages in the game. Make this stat socketing system require a hole in every new PVP only item. Again a balancing of the force. Sure its uber looking and has AN uber advantage over existing amors BUT unlike existing armors these new armors and weapons are flawed meaning make it have a weakness. Such as a sacrifice of AC for extra AR or evades etc.. basically copying your already existing and ingenious implants principals and applying it to other items.

Solo & Team Rewards
You can make the rewards for the team/solo PVP be more akin to symbiants as predefined sets and even borrow from diablo by making completed sets give bonuses for being complete but again have a weakness as great as the reward causing a shift of AO back to its old state where all items were flawed in some way. This will basically allow for further end game customizations and you can even hold community contests for designs for this new gear periodically.

[Xaun]

EDIT: I KNOW I REQUESTED IT LAST NIGHT BUT PLEASE DO NOT DELETE!! MY PREVIOUS POST HIT THE MAX 16K And I am still going LOL..

Conclusion to Dueling suggestions / Stat Tracking K/D Ratio etc
At this point it would track each fought duel and win loss vs each. This would 100% eliminate ALL concerns of farmers and huggers because it would keep things such as recent activity who they fought against how many times they were killed vs there would be 0 debate by anyone in the forums about "xyz killed your xyz" yadda yadda if it happened it is in there because you cannot even get to duel without it. Also I think that by making it registration only and have a deprecating value over "logged on time" and through the honorable actions of the person such as logging off, meeping, etc during a duel. This would distinguish the various types of PVPing players properly in all their many diverse forms. Some people ONLY NW, Some ONLY Duel, Some ONLY BS... etc.. Some like me like it all baby!!

New Nanos for NW/OS
Give a new nano "Aura of Deflection" to keepers that makes them a walking beacon of what the engi pet would have done.
Give shades the ability to use an AOE "Find and grab marker" nano then let them target an enemy and use another nano allowing the beacon to be relocated to the targets feet.

Both nanos could have increased usefulness at as it goes from a lvl 10 nano to the 220 variants giving both keepers and shades a purpose in lowbie TL wars because currently if you bring either a keeper twink or a shade (not truly twinkable) to a tower fight you will probably die before you can notice everyone laughing at you :P you could for laughs make the shades baby versions of it only pick it up and give the transfer it to a target later on basically making them a running suicide bomb :P or just make them literally consume it making it utterly vanish altogether at baby levels and transfer at the higher TLs and have the keeper nano start with 25% and scale up to 95% or something and make the shades range of being able to throw it at a target increase till they can finally go at max 40m range at 220.

PS: I think that to add some life to the game this should be carried over to the shadowlands. It would basically turn Pande into a 25% gas zone xD


PS I just hit this page with 10,000 pts of wall of text dmg ^_~

[Chrys]

what about losing titles in the duel only mode? first off, if you never lose your title in this system, only for alittle while will people's titles be distinguishable.
...
The determining factor with this new system of higher titles comes down to longevity and not skill. Even the n00biest player can eventually get the highest titles if there is no penalty, all it would take is time.

QFT

Eventually, the only thing people will look at is your kills/deaths ratio (assuming that part is visible), since everyone will be Champions etc. in a few months.

Also, I think the original titles should go to the solo kills mode (especially since a lot of the names imply tutelage, which isn't something you'd associate with duelling), and duel titles should have a completely new ranking, e.g.:

1. Thug
2. Brawler
3. Provocator
4. Fighter
5. Second
6. Duellist
7. Fencer
8. Pugilist
9. Gladiator
10. Victor

[FoolishManX]

I really like this update but I truly dislike the names for the solo PvP title. May I sugest one?

How about Greek letters? From worst title to the best.

Alpha

Beta

Chi

Delta

Epsilon

Gamma

Kappa

Lambda

Sigma

Omega