Tell me that it aint true you quit?!?Originally posted by Athx
hehe...dodge has all the NR stuff(2xrings, 2xfocus, triple implanted) good to hear others then enfs can resist divests...especially your divests =P
Tell me that it aint true you quit?!?Originally posted by Athx
hehe...dodge has all the NR stuff(2xrings, 2xfocus, triple implanted) good to hear others then enfs can resist divests...especially your divests =P
weeeeee
NERF ENGINEERS!!!!!!!!!!
Rosbif Advocate for the enslavement of Octodogs as an alternative form of energy.
NERF CRATS TOO!!!
They have roots/snares and can stop a soldier from killing them if they survive an alpha.
I think there has been pretty good points in there and I would like to see more thoughts from a broader range of professions. I thought some of the fix suggestions were decent. It would in no way change the PvM game.. but would give other professions a chance against Traders who typically out of 11 other professions could consistently beat 10 of them.
I don't care if Soldier is one of the classes that a Trader will always be able to beat. It makes sense that in Funcoms world a Merchant can murder a professional soldier with ease.
But It should be like any other profession and be weak to 50% of the other classes.
WORKSHEET FOR TRADERS:
1. Name all of the professions as a wholeand on average, that will consistently beat a Trader every time 1 vs. 1 in pvp?
2. Now name all the professions that typically as a whole, a trader would win 1 vs. 1 in pvp nearly every time?
Well at least you can still go down to the Department of motor vehicles or the post office and shoot up a storm! Where as in the real world postman are greatly feared!
BTW all these RL analogies are kind of silly. I earn a living just like every one else on RK, I go to offices, murder a bunch of people and go through their pockets, take their boots and stuff, then take the stuff to a ATM and drop it in for fast cash. That is my character's DAY JOB. Mass murderer, mugger, thug. That is everyone’s profession on RK, if you are a merchant of death, an administrator of pain or a soldier of slaughter.
I mean how many soldiers in RL report to no one, and go off and depopulate office buildings or mines on a daily basis, going through everyone’s pockets methodically... for a LIVING =]
Yep comparing this game to RL is like comparing Thomas Jefferson to GW Bush.
Kind of off topic but still not...
I dont really see the need for FC's proffesional program since this Trader nerf fix whatever isnt being discussed with the pro's but by a soldier that got killed one time too many in pvp...
Get over it
SS - Grandmaster of Fall Damage
Property of the Devil
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for anyone drops to zero
I love threads like this...
Who said soldier should kill everyone in 1v1? Soldier by far best mass combat character i can think of.
Two sisters practicing medicine on Rubika and Shadowlands Pomy and Julka.
As a doctor i would prescribe you to use some common sense and a vacation to Real Life"
If i ever start a new character in Eve i will choose a name something like "aieerjjnnvajjnasdio11e3".
i m not sure of that, but it seems i evade more hit from divested mobs (no real test doen, just a feeling )
for NR :
my friend agent can t land gaze of death cause of my NR (only a 150% one VS my 700 NR )
and the prof i fear the most with my trader is MA (Shen + Dimach hurt so much ) 50% win against skilled MA
Lohem improve your prof, it s a more important issue than nerfing others
Soldier is the gimpest prof with engie(and boring : TMS alpha run)
tavumebotte
trader 167
Definetely. When i duel, I get a drain off 50% of the time, and with the NR boost coming, it's going to be even harder. Let's take a soldier vs me for instance. I attempt a drain, he counters, while in the mean time he's doing his fling, burst, full auto, then takes off his gun and dimachs me, kills me. The reason why I chose a soldier as an example is because I see mostly soldiers whining about drains and calling for a nerf on them, yet, you can easily kill a trader at least 50% of the time! And even more in mass pvp in camelot/2ho unless I get a good jump on ya. Most of the flamers and whiners are basing their opinions and conclusions based on sub lvl 75 pvp, and others who are higher probably are just following other opinions and haven't even tried themselves!! C'mon guys! I see all you soldiers refusing duels at the arena, and half of you haven't even given a trader a shot. I've done plenty of tests with soldiers and there have been SEVERAL times where if that soldier had given me a dimach and/or an AS from a supernova, I would have been dead.Originally posted by Womble
It's bad enough calling for nerfs,
It's worse calling for nerfs because of pvp,
And it's ****ing terrible calling for nerfs because of your experiences of the class in pvp at level 74!!
wtf.
Level a little, explore further options when your class has fully matured, and you have IP to spend on other things like maxing evades, first aid, dimach ( yeah soldiers, dimach ), and you'll see that traders really aren't the absolute gods all you noobs think we are, we are very killable.
So PLEASE, stop the whining and play the game! And Lohem wtf? Your account is CANCELED and you are QUITTING, so why flame and call for nerfs man? I don't understand, you trying to get back at a trader enemy of yours you had beef with while you played? What's the deal?
I must have said about five times in this thread and in the original: I'm getting married in two weeks, I'll be moving, I need to get situated in RL, I have to wait for Broadband installation at my new residence. I will be back in November.Originally Posted by Illphil
So PLEASE, stop the whining and play the game! And Lohem wtf? Your account is CANCELED and you are QUITTING, so why flame and call for nerfs man? I don't understand, you trying to get back at a trader enemy of yours you had beef with while you played? What's the deal?
Actually I was thinking of even renewing my subscription even though i won't be able to play just so I can maintain opinion on the message boards and keep in touch with guild and in-game friends.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAOriginally posted by Julia
Who said soldier should kill everyone in 1v1? Soldier by far best mass combat character i can think of.
Once again, about the 10th time I've said this: It's not about Soldier vs. Trader, it's about every profession in this game. I understand you defending traders SS, I know Cocio is one of your best friends in the game and I see that she is leaving and i'm very sorry to hear that. I think that each profession should have strengths and weaknesses and lose about 50% and win about 50%. As a soldier I am right around there.. on average I lose a little more than 50% and win a little less, but close enough for me.Originally posted by SS
I dont really see the need for FC's proffesional program since this Trader nerf fix whatever isnt being discussed with the pro's but by a soldier that got killed one time too many in pvp...
Get over it
It is so funny that since my last post, 4 Traders have posed and not one of them as completed my worksheet.......
Any takers? I guarantee if you do it for nearly every class you will get about the same number on each side, or close to it (except for the obvious exceptions). When you do the same thing for the Trader what do you get???Originally posted by Lohem
WORKSHEET FOR TRADERS:
1. Name all of the professions as a whole and on average, that will consistently beat a Trader every time 1 vs. 1 in pvp?
2. Now name all the professions that typically as a whole, a trader would win 1 vs. 1 in pvp nearly every time?
THANK YOU !!!
You know, I actually have come to see that you think you are doing a good thing for the game. I see it differently, myself.
I don't PvP. I have never PvP'ed in this or any other game. I will never PvP. It's my belief that the vast majority of players of this game are in the same category I am in.
I am sick to death of rerolling because people don't like what happens in PvP. I could not care less what happens in PvP, but I do care what happens in PvM. 100 percent of the player participate in PvM for the bulk of their in game time.
I understand that you think that whatever nerf satisfies you will not impact PvM. I believe, based on past nerfing patterns, that would not be the case.
I just can't tell you how frustrating and down right selfish I find this whole thing.
Last thing i am to say in this matter.
Lohem u have 0 clue about playing a Trader so dont come here acting like u do.
Traders get killed like the rest and that is a fact. 1on1 self buffed Trader may be able to kill about 50% of the proffessions and that is me being nice in that matter. NR got buffed in last patch and it does work. If u dont want to remove clusters etc for NR clusters because it conflicts then dont. BUT DO NOT COME HERE AND WHINE.
I know for a fact that NR works and alot of people i fight on a daily basis also know it works they just keep their mouth shut because they still want Trader proffession nerfed.
My 2 questions to u Lohem is:
What is a Trader without their drains in pvp?
Why dont u want Enforcers wielding EoT's nerfed? They can kill anyone.
Now happy nerfing u very high leveled n00b solja.
Last edited by Coc^-^; Sep 15th, 2002 at 01:29:51.
weeeeee
And ya proffs that would beat a Trader 1on1 self buffed or atleast have a fair chance at beating them (this out of experience):
Agents (100% crit)
Enforcers (Rage NR boost + massive dmg)
Doctors (Full deff + high NR + init debuff)
Engineers (MA engie + full deff + high NR)
Adventurers (Big dmg shield + high NR + full deff)
Soldiers (Nova Flow + full deff + high NR)
Martial Artists (ummmmm they own us ok)
Fixers (GA using fixers = Do i need to say more?)
People that Traders beat.
Trader lands drain. Run ok. Simple.
weeeeee
Originally posted by Cocio
And ya proffs that would beat a Trader 1on1 self buffed or atleast have a fair chance at beating them (this out of experience):
Agents (100% crit)
Enforcers (Rage NR boost + massive dmg)
Doctors (Full deff + high NR + init debuff)
Engineers (MA engie + full deff + high NR)
Adventurers (Big dmg shield + high NR + full deff)
Soldiers (Nova Flow + full deff + high NR)
Martial Artists (ummmmm they own us ok)
Fixers (GA using fixers = Do i need to say more?)
Seems like every profession you mentioned there had something about "High NR". Once again, i've test this at my title 5 maxed for soldier 600~ I've said this many times.
Once in a blue moon i resisted .... almost all landed no matter what. Now answer me this? Who fights in Full Defence. I have 1.1k Ranged Init, Full D and i'm firing about once every 4 or 5 seconds.
I've said from day one that Enforcers and MAs have good chance against Traders, not going to argue with you there.
GA Fixers.. What percentage of the Fixer community has GA? Maybe 5% ? I do pretty well against Fixers until they Evac out. GA doesn't block specials or nukes (Ithaca - Fling and Aimed).
I did tests with Agent's 100% crit buff at my level and typically he only hit me with 50% of the 100% crit shots, One max Two.
Soldiers: LMAO hahahahahaha So what soldier has beaten you one on one Cocio ?
Whatever, your list is totally inaccurate.
One on One in a duel where noone is caught off guard, the only professions that has a chance against a Trader are Enforcers, MAs and Engies in Transference (which is not a profession, cause there are like 3 of them on RK2)
But whatever.
Well i wont pretend to be as all knowing as the rest of the traders seem to be regarding how they say they can be beat. I have a trader alt only level 110 atm..but there is no way in hell at same level any other class could beat me(and i certainly do not think im good cuz i can roll a trader its just they are that unbalanced in pvp)... maybe u say oh well mp can cast nano shutdown..so?..back off and wait it out ..not that u couldnt prolly take down the mp anyway..doc init debuff same thing..docs cant root so back off and wait it out once u get a debuff on them ..they not gonna cast it again..they will be to busy using there ql 40 heals to save themselves ..enforcers do have the best chance but i still have no problem beating enforcers 15-20 levels above me ..just takes a bit longer
My experiences (I'm not a pvp guru):
Me vs another Trader - depends who lands the first divest, though there have been exceptions.
Me vs Soldier - since the day I put Corona Mk II on, I have not died to a soldier my level in 1 on 1. The times I've died to soldiers above my level, it has been in the alpha strike or a few seconds after.
Me vs Nanotech - dead NT unless I'm afk.
Me vs MP - if the MP gets NS off on me, I'm dead. Otherwise, the MP is dead.
Me vs Engineer - haven't done this.
Me vs Crat - haven't done this.
Me vs Adventurer - not much experience here, but I haven't died to one my level.
Me vs Fixer - Fixer evacs.
Me vs Agent - dead agent (I suspect this will change later when they have more IP to throw at issues from mimic: trader).
Me vs Doctor - even init debuffed at the beginning, this long fight seems to always end in my favor unless the doctor gets lucky early with crits.
Me vs Enforcer - flurry and challenger... ouch ouch ouch. I have to be recovered from my first drain before they reach me if I want to survive these.
Me vs MA - shen, dimach, and god knows how many specials later... ouch. As with enforcers, I need to already have my first drain off and recharged if I want to survive.
Note: I don't really duel... the above are from experiences in pvp zones such as 2ho when we just happened to not be interrupted. And almost invariably, I've been pretty heavily outside buffed.
As I see it, traders are long term fighers as doctors are. The opportunity to kill us is in the first 30 seconds or so. If you miss this window, it's pretty much over.
Please understand my PvP experience is relatively limited. I rolled a trader because, from a nano line perspective, they seemed to be challenging and effective team players. This was and remains to be true. However, now in the later game, we all know what's left in the "stuff to do" list.
While I can see why people have issues with our drains, it scares me to think how this might be fixed. Divest and plunder are the cornerstone of everything we do, and even a slight adjustment could have significant consequences for us.
Whatever.Originally posted by Koma
Well i wont pretend to be as all knowing as the rest of the traders seem to be regarding how they say they can be beat. I have a trader alt only level 110 atm..but there is no way in hell at same level any other class could beat me(and i certainly do not think im good cuz i can roll a trader its just they are that unbalanced in pvp)... maybe u say oh well mp can cast nano shutdown..so?..back off and wait it out ..not that u couldnt prolly take down the mp anyway..doc init debuff same thing..docs cant root so back off and wait it out once u get a debuff on them ..they not gonna cast it again..they will be to busy using there ql 40 heals to save themselves ..enforcers do have the best chance but i still have no problem beating enforcers 15-20 levels above me ..just takes a bit longer
To Aaronb & Koma,
I want to thank you as the first Traders to come to this thread and admit that Traders have the advantage in PvP no matter what the class is. (void MA/Enforcer). It was very honest of you. Thanks.
Aaronb nobody wants to get nerfed, and I do not want Traders nerfed even though nearly every trader will disagree with me on that. I made a suggestion that would not change PvM in ANY way whatsoever:Originally posted by Aaronb
While I can see why people have issues with our drains, it scares me to think how this might be fixed. Divest and plunder are the cornerstone of everything we do, and even a slight adjustment could have significant consequences for us.
************************************************** **
Make Skill Drains (divest/plunder line only) MOB/NPC Only. But increase the duration of the Drain bonus on the trader from 3 minutes to 15 minutes. If you would try to drain a player, you would get the same message as when you tried to buff a NPC.... "The cellular structure of your target does not allow for that Nano Program to run".
Advantage to Trader: You could go drain a leet or something and have a 15 minute buff of 300+ to your attack rating and 300 to all nano skills. You would still have 1300~ Attack Rating as if you did drain a player against his 800~ evades, so you would crit just as often as you did before. No Change Here !
Disadvantage to Trader: In PVP ONLY !! your opponent would now be able to defend himself and actually be able to hit you like he does with the 11 other professions. You have to admit that if you get a set of drains off on someone the fight is over... their attack rating is now so low that they will hardly even hit you and healers are forced to use nanos that are several Title levels lower than their own.
Advantage to Trader: Instead of just using Skill Drain in PvP as before you would have 15 minutes of +300 too all nano skills... This might be a good time to get to know your other nanos and see if they work in PvP.... Nano Pool Drains/ HP Transfers/ AC Drains ect....
************************************************** **
My suggestion does not Nerf Traders in any way during PvM. PvM will not change at all and will work in the same fashion it does now except you, as a Trader, will only have to re-drain once every 15 minutes.. not every 3 <~~~~~ Another Advantage.
You would more than likely still win most fights with the highest Attack Rating in the Game.... (Enforcers challenger only last a few seconds from what i know and locks nano skill too).
But, atleast the person on the other end of you shotgun can fire back now and cast a heal if he/she needs that will actully heal him.
Please comment on this:
Like ive said before. U are in the wrong forum. U have absolutely no idea about PvP and have nothing to do here. U have no idea about anything that has with pvp to do because u have never ever practised the very fine art of PvP. Ur info is from random arena tests with a couple of friends. My experience if from 1 year out in 25% zones. So dont come here acting like u know anything.Originally posted by Lohem
Seems like every profession you mentioned there had something about "High NR". Once again, i've test this at my title 5 maxed for soldier 600~ I've said this many times.
Once in a blue moon i resisted .... almost all landed no matter what. Now answer me this? Who fights in Full Defence. I have 1.1k Ranged Init, Full D and i'm firing about once every 4 or 5 seconds.
I've said from day one that Enforcers and MAs have good chance against Traders, not going to argue with you there.
GA Fixers.. What percentage of the Fixer community has GA? Maybe 5% ? I do pretty well against Fixers until they Evac out. GA doesn't block specials or nukes (Ithaca - Fling and Aimed).
I did tests with Agent's 100% crit buff at my level and typically he only hit me with 50% of the 100% crit shots, One max Two.
Soldiers: LMAO hahahahahaha So what soldier has beaten you one on one Cocio ?
Whatever, your list is totally inaccurate.
One on One in a duel where noone is caught off guard, the only professions that has a chance against a Trader are Enforcers, MAs and Engies in Transference (which is not a profession, cause there are like 3 of them on RK2)
But whatever.
And ya the soldier that had a pretty fair chance at beating me was Mcafeevsd.
weeeeee
Lohem go ask for a NR buff to add to ur MK instead.
weeeeee
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