those blacks

[BoomDoom]

So, Ntrox, on the matter of racism in the UK....

How is the current immigration situaiton ovwer there? From all accounts I know that certain parts of Europe are bescially under seige from an enormeous population shift of muslims into Europe (millions a year). I know France has it pretty bad, and some other areas, but how is it in Great Britain?

just curious.

[lilnymph]

Great Britain has it bad, As quite alot of the Migrants want to come to Britain, and countries like France helpfully don't their process applications, and build refugee camps right next to the channel tunnel station. hmmmmmm

hugs

lilnymph

[BoomDoom]

Originally posted by lilnymph
[B]Great Britain has it bad, As quite alot of the Migrants want to come to Britain, and countries like France helpfully don't their process applications, and build refugee camps right next to the channel tunnel station. hmmmmmm
[B]

To be honest, I'm really curious to see when Europe reacts to this and in what way. I know that one of Le Penn's big arguements was stemming the tide of this mass migration, but unfortunatly he was such a loon that when he said something that made sense (which did happen every once in a while) he was largely ignored. I have a feeling some years down the road there is going to be a massive reaction as Europe tries to hold onto its countries and I think its going to make a real mess.

[lilnymph]

The situation isnt actually as bad as it seems, from countries "loosing control" as it where, to the new refugees coming in, as the refugees make up a small percentage of the population (I think I remember reading a figure that 97% of the united kingdom is till made up of ethnic white "British"). The main problem is the sudden influx of large numbers of people into a country, who dont think of themselvs as belonging to a country, which leads to problems down the line.

hugs

lilnymph

[ntrox1]

BoomDoom: To put it one way, taken from a quote: at the current rate of illegal immigration, in four years the number of illegal immigrants that have entered within those four years will be equivalent to the population of Birmingham.

Birmingham is a rather large city, within the top 10 in the UK I believe. I will stand corrected.

Illegal immigration is very bad here. But due to PC, politicians need to step lightly or be boo'ed down by a) the minorities and b) minority sympathisers.

The French illegal immigration camp at teh Channel Tunnel was closed down by the French, and we now have a flood of immigrants coming into the country, mostly unchecked. The attach themselves to the underside of trains and make their way in that way.

I am not racist, but I expect to be called one, also non-PC, when I say I agree that illegal immigrants should be prevented from entering, and legal immigrants (through clearing) would be allowed to stay provided they can speak the language sufficiently well. I believe Canada have this requirement. Recently a politician here was boo'ed down when he suggested that immigrant families attempt to speak English at home to better increase their familiarity and grasp of the language, whilst also maintaining their on cultural links by speaking their home tongue. Very sad that people misconstrued this.

[BoomDoom]

I am not a racist ether, but the illegal immigration in Europe is going to begin to destroy the erntire continent, probably within my lifetime (assuming nothing is done to stop it). Although in Britain it appears to not be as bad as other places (working with that 97% number). But France, which has a population of roughly 60 million, there are 10 million illegal immigrants. Now, there's nothing evil about the immigrants, but 10 million new people that want the benefits of living in a country (like social services) is a going to be a problem. There is no such thing as an infrastrucure that can accomdate an additional 20% population increase without problems. especially since these people will need jobs, housing, and things of that nature, which there simply isn't a big enough surplus of those things to spread out.

Again, I'm really curious to see what happens.

[ntrox1]

Boom: I would never even consider you as a racist But ya know, these things need to be said as a layer of protection against misconstrued flames..

I believe you are going by the OFFICIAL figures here in the UK. The problem here is 300% worse than you think, and that is a fact. The government only counts those who fit into a particular group. A lot of immigrants have "disappeared".

[lilnymph]

unfortantly Britain has a thriving underground labour market lots of illegal immigrants disappear into

hugs

lilnymph

[ntrox1]

lilnymph: you must be British to know about this problem we have I wish there was something we could do about it, but thats racist and not very PC :/

[BoomDoom]

Ntrox:

I used both the official reports and other reports from various sources. I am very interested in things of this nature, so I poke around a lot in that regards.

lilnymph:

I did not know there was a thriving underground market that the immigrants disappeared into. That's probably not going to end very well at all.

So, what do you guys think is going to happen?

[lilnymph]

Yes, I am British, living in Englands 2nd City, manchester (whatever Birmingham may think hehe).

How it will end? thats not easy to see. Britain has a long history of welcome immigrants (especially from the ex colonies), and in general this has not been a problem, as they have integrated with society, and worked with the system. The main problem at the moment is groups of immigrants who dont want to integrate into british society, they dont see themselves as british, and in some cases actually wish ill to this country. These are the problem groups, Not immigrants in general. Ultimately the EU needs to face up to this problem, and actually try and deal with it. Personally I think Britain and Europe will ride out this problem, as it isnt the biggest we have faced in our history, and I doubt it will be the biggest we will face in our future.

One thing that does annoy me, on a slighly different point, is the fact that some of british history and culture is beginning to become taboo, in the name of political correctness. It is perfectly all right for other nations to point out how horrible Britian was in colonial times, but it is no longer acceptable for the British to feel proud for have the largest Empire the world has ever, and probably will ever, know. Also, Rule Britannia has been taken off the last night of the Proms, as it is not seen as being PC. I think all this has to stop. PC has gone too far now, a police officer in Britain was actually given an offical warning after using the term "nitty grity", which is in common usage in britain to refer to the bottom line of something. Apparently someone has found out the term originated in something to do with the slave trade, despite the fact no one in society actually knew this, so it is now an unPC word.

hugs

lilnymph

[BoomDoom]

I completely agree with you about how the immigration is going. People often compare the current immigration in Europe to the immigration in America of primarily Mexicans. The two are completely different. The Mexicans that come accross speak a European language just like those of us already here. The Mexicans are mostlyCatholic, which is a major religion here. They also come from a very similiar culture and as such fit it pretty easily. There are, of course, some problems to be sure, but for the most part its ok.

On the other hand, the current flock of immigrants moving into Europe have a completely different culture, do not speak any launguage that most Europeans know, and are all around completely different from their hosts. The other major problem is that in America we have all kinds of people coming into the country, so there is no single identity to the "new people". While it is true that a Mexican immigrant and an Irish immigrant are both immigrants, they do not identify with each other. In Europe nearly all the immigrants are Muslim, so there is a common identity. Any action taken against immigrants in general will be perceived as an action taken against Muslims in specific. This will make your politicians gun shy about changing things and will cause problems when they do change things.

I think this is in fact one of the larget problems to face Europe in recent memory, certainly in my life time. It doesn't have to be a problem, but it is, primarily because most European politicians are the ultra liberal, super PC, unrealistic apologetic type that will not grow a backbone and solve this before its too late (Britain of course being the exception to some of that description). I think it will become a problem because it will be ignored until it is nearly too late. I also think it will cause a major whiplash and the European people will begin electing more hardline nationalist types which will dramatically change the face of European politics.

As for parts of your culture becoming taboo. Welcome to the club. A California court recently ruled that the pledge of allegiance is unconstitutional and cannot be recited in schools. we have begun to walk down that PC trail and its going to be a bumpy ride...

[ntrox1]

I agree with everything lil said.

Also, the Gollywog from the Jam jars was removed, not PC. The term Gollywog is no longer allowed. You are not allowed to refer to someone as "black" any more. (I am white, is that PC?)

Did you know that the white heterosexual English male is now the only PC character that you can joke about in Britain? How sad is that? No more "Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman waliking into a bar" jokes. No more minority references. No more female or homo references.

To add wood to the fire: I am athiest. I cannot speak out about being athiest due to PC, and protecting religious peoples beliefs. I also cannot say that I think the Royal Family is a waste of money, as we Brits are supposed to be all for them.

In short, there is a template in Britain. We must all adhere to it or be condemned.

[BoomDoom]

Ntrox:

Its that way in a lot of places. The funny thing is, these templates exist everywhere. In an 'un-free' society they exist because you don't have the freedom to say otherwise. In liberal free societies they exist because nothing else is polite!

[______________hobbes]

Originally posted by Ntrox

To add wood to the fire: I am athiest. I cannot speak out about being athiest due to PC, and protecting religious peoples beliefs. I also cannot say that I think the Royal Family is a waste of money, as we Brits are supposed to be all for them.

I don't believe in Athiests

From:
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...0&pagenumber=3

(There a few exchanges there between myself, Dain Harper, and Shubalubadubaduba (I can't remember where to stop) that flesh out my point of view a little further, but I'm just posting my first response.)


I don't get you athiests.

You state that religions are societal delusions created to give the believers a sense of comfort. Life is hard, believe what I say and you will ultimately receive eternal rewards. Faith is belief without proof.

On the otherhand, Atheism is a faith of disbelief. Without proof, you aver that God does not exist.

Now, if I had to chose one over the other, I would go for the pain killer. What would motivate one to have the faith of Athiesm. Sounds like someone who is rather angry at the world. One who would rather draw the ire of others, over being ignored.

Are you sure your not an agnostic? Agnostics question the existence of God in the absensce of material proof. They do not have to rely on some intangible thing such as faith.

I believe, as you do, that religions are painkillers and I do not accept them at face value. How can one be right and thousands of others wrong? This becomes more tricky when one contradicts another.

It seems that those who believe, and those who deny, both must rely on faith. I prefer to hope there is something, treat others with dignity and respect, and enjoy my life, as I'm not expecting anything.






Snipet from a later post:

How can one deny (to declare untrue) the existence of God without proof? What is your criterion? A gut feeling, a lack of satisfaction from the provided religions. Whatever, at some point you must deny the existence of God without proof or evidence, which is the definition of faith.




A link (optional reading) to a related thread for anyone still awake. My post is third from the last.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...0&pagenumber=3

PS: don't get me started on the subject of being PC

[_______________Xuric]

I just had to butt in here.

hobbes, you are absolutely correct. Most self-proclaimed 'atheists' are actually agnostic, as they don't realize that atheism requires an equal amount of faith as Catholicism, or any other 'supreme being' type religion.

I myself am agnostic. If God comes back in a shining chariot, I won't say 'ha! I knew it!' nor 'damn I was wrong'. I'll be more saying 'what kind of benefits do you offer?'. I often wondered how Thomas became a saint

I think subscribing to a religion is sometimes a mark of several factors: intelligence, social standing, upbringing, and societal pressure. I am fairly intelligent, I make my own standing, my upbringing was wholly unique, and I have no pressure from society, I choose to believe not to believe. If there is a God, I don't think he'd hold it against me

But I digress, I guess my point was that many agnostics view themselves as atheists because they don't BELIEVE in God. But you have to equally believe that there is no God to be an atheist. It's a common misconception.

As to the other thread, which coincidentally also has very little to do with the original one, as hobbes' threads tend to do, immigration is simply another example of the overly PC generation of politics. One of my major concerns is overpopulation. We multiply exponentially, increase life expectancy every year, and yet most major countries have no population control in place. The only exception I know of is China, and that worries me that the only country who cares about overpopulation is the one with 75% of the world's population. We just have to let problems get insanely out of control before we actually do something about it.

What I'm going to say next is very un-patriotic and fairly heartless, bear with me. While I felt for the families of the 9/11 tragedy, I more thought that it would do our country some good. I had hoped that this would shock us into looking at not only ourselves and our security but other issues as well. A reality check, if you will. Unfortunately, this has not been the case. It's merely been used to fuel 'patriotism' which in turn has been used to fuel a liberal agenda to increase security. I disapprove. I almost hope for another such incident so that we can finally get our heads out of our lazy complacent patooties. And hell, I'm bored.

Anyways I rambled about a few things, and I'm pretty tired and about to go home, so forgive my digressions, I hope this pertains to at least one discussion

EDIT: replaced a word that starts with a and ends in s with a more PC word :P

[ntrox1]

hobbes, its best if I explain my beliefs, or lack of them, rather than criticise what you say.

I do not believe in any Deity, nor would I acknowledge one if He came down in that golden chariot. Sure, He would exist, proof being in the "being", but I would not follow that Deity or swear allegience. I am here in this world thanks to my mother, not a God. I know my mother. She exists and is real.

To quote your post: "How can one deny (to declare untrue) the existence of God without proof?"

How can anyone worship something that is not proven to exist? It works both ways. If I create an idol and worship it, you would laugh at me. However, how can you be sure my Deity is not real? You sure as hell cannot prove yours is

Personally I think I am more realistic in not worshiping and believing in something intangible. Being tagged an Athiest (I applied that tag to myself many years ago) merely states my lack of belief in non-physical entities.

[modde]

r

[BoomDoom]

Ntrox:

Might want to consider calling yourself agnostic then. We basically are willing to accept that there are any number of Gods out there (maybe) but choose to worship none.

[Gearbox]

Originally posted by BoomDoom
As for parts of your culture becoming taboo. Welcome to the club. A California court recently ruled that the pledge of allegiance is unconstitutional and cannot be recited in schools. we have begun to walk down that PC trail and its going to be a bumpy ride...

BoomDoom, the ruling said that the inclusion of "god" in the pledge of allegiance made it unconstitutional to force children to say it in a public school. And the ruling was correct.

It was a very unpopular decision, especially with more right-leaning folks, but that doesn't make it a wrong decision. Unfortuantely, I'm sure it'll be overturned, and popular opinion will prevail... rather than the constitution.

The reference to "god" in the pledge was only added in the 50's, by the way- as a reaction to the "godless" communists.

As for immigrant issues- it's interesting- particularly Britain's immigrant issues. While it would be easy to dismiss those with concerns as paranoid racists, they've got some very valid complaints.

I just spent a few months in Britain, and one thing that really struck me was the Hindu/Muslim clashes that have been going on in... I think it was Brighton. That sort of thing is really a potential mess. If I were living there, I know I wouldn't appreciate having these stupid grudges in my backyard.