Reply to Cz in closed thread

[testest]

Cz wrote:

"About "harassment": I think the term is used by mistake, as the rules they are probably those for "Harassment and disruptive gameplay", which - in the "disruptive gameplay" part - include kill stealing, and monopolizing a spawn."

I'd like to report all the clanners hogging the Tarrasque spawn then :P

Bad use of the wrong term.

"A very important side note though, to repeat from my first reply: The bulletin board is not a proper channel for this kind of cases. Feel free to e-mail me, and I will make sure to look into it, but keep it off the bulletin board. "

Of course they post on the official boards because then they get a response from the public, and even if you don't admit it, that will have an impact on your judgement.

"And if you disagree with that, e-mail me about it and let me know why. "

I agree that it would be best for Funcom if nothing that reflects badly on Funcom is written on the official boards. But this message board was made for the players if I'm not misstaken and if they get hurt they will try and hurt you back.

Just my thoughts

/Baffo

edit: I figured out how to make the text italic

[Paffy]

Also if I were you (happily I am not) I would be rather pleased that people keep it here on the official forums where you still have some power to edit/delete/close and actually defend your actions in written form if you so choose.

If you get too touchy on your own boards there will be other boards which will step into your place and ofcourse there you wont have any say on the matter.

I rather keep it here in the official AO boards and give you (FC) a benefit of doubt and allow you to defend yourself.

Which one you prefer?

Zarch and da chars

[Cz]

Is it really so hard to e-mail me? You post an answer specifically to me, but still has to put it somewhere where I may or may not see it. If you want to talk to me, please just send me an e-mail, as I really don't have the capacity to read all 2000 posts on this bulletin board every day.

Anyhow, posting on the bulletin board gives little solution, just attention. E-mailing me gives a solution. If attention is more important that solution, I'd say people have the wrong reasons for bringing the case up in the first place.

In this specific case, I'd like to add that the player did e-mail me. This is in a general term, not specifically aimed at this case.

[_____________Lamonia]

Hello there


This is the proper place for most of what the costumers think concerns AO and close area talk. If you think else I suppose you should bring the whole forum down and maybe releave youselve from your duties.

Your problem and ours is that FC has choosen multiple ways to communicate with the player base - it is due to be a lot of missunderstanding now and in the future. If as a general matter find the forums to be less proper for certain cases I can understand your point but I will in not agree with you.

However, feel free to close the whole thing down as has been done before and please don't bother to reopen the boards - its ok if you also close down the GM and ARK system - if we then find us in need of support we might just e-mail, support that is.

Lamonia

[Cz]

Lamonia, I mostly agree with you, but when you speak to me, isn't it easier to speak to me, and not the general public where I might happen to be present?

Now, I am of course more likely to be present here than on any other bulletin board, hence this is better than posting elsewhere. However, e-mail is 100% sure. Why not use it?

Are people that adamant that everything I say must be said in public? Must all issues be taken on the bulletin board, maybe even without us having a chance at responding to them? Personally, I don't think so.

[____________Steffani]

First of all I posted on forums because I wanted feedback from general public. I know its your forum, but I can freely post on other fansites and AO sites on how I was mistreated..

Another reason is that FC is famous for letting issues fade away. So if didn't post it on forums.. who knows.. they would just ignore my emails like previous issues.

I was warned again.. Reason: Conpspiracy to lie to a GM for getting loot for my alt. Hello if FC even check my account I do have a 100 fixer that needs Gridarmor 4. LOL You say that I have a clean record.. you might want to check again.. they added 2 warnings! Or did they lie to you?

For Harrassing people? If a player said not to kill snakes and calling me an idiot and loser to me, would you believe that person? Would you do what he says? I was there FIRST CZ. Others were killing snakes as well. So you guys blamed on me.. cause someone petition a level 200 that was outdamaging them. They have every opportunity to gain level to 200.. I have level to 200 legally, and yet you guys don't even punish people that exploit to gain level 200.. you honor them.

Thanks..

[Cz]

Again, Steffani, we already e-mail each other on the issue. How about finishing that, then go to the bulletin board? No need to go here with the issue without waiting for my reply, imo.

I don't care who was there first, frankly. Anybody's free to compete for a spawn. If it was an issue of outdamaging them (as you suddenly state now) and they attacked first, and this happened several times, I'd say you're pretty much kill-stealing, and deserve a warning. If that's not what happened, you shouldn't get one.

So, read my e-mail, and complete the case there, instead of jumping me in two different channels over the issue.

[____________Buelothe]

Originally posted by Cz
I really don't have the capacity to read all 2000 posts on this bulletin board every day.

[/B]

Ehm, and you DO have the capacity to read and answer 2000 emails everyday in person? I remember back in last year there was a forum for official answers. I realize it's extra work to start something like that up but the present system of communication between players and officials breeds bad blood.

I have sent emails and they do get answered (in person even sometimes) but when I get an automated response I think like: "It would be neat if that question had been posted somewhere"

Vitnirs

[Cz]

Originally posted by Annilymk
Ehm, and you DO have the capacity to read and answer 2000 emails everyday in person?

Nope. I don't. But not everything that gets posted on the forums is for me. I still have to read it all if I want to find everything that I should reply to (or people think I should reply to).

E-mail me complaints and such issues. Suggestions for design, discussions about professions and game mechanics, etc, can stay on the bulletin board.

[____________Buelothe]

Still thinks that it would save efforts to have official bug list - answers (I know I know, it has been said it would be too much work) it would create a better atmosphere on the forum and a lot less flames on you (FC)

/me realizes that this should go under Feedback & Suggestions instead and runs off and starts writing many emails.




Vitnirs

[Cthonian]

Steffani, i agree with you 100%

It's not only your right to report such issue in forum,
but by doing this you help others to see what is going on.

Also Funcom ppl. arent gods, they can do mistakes, who knows how many...
And if no one go public with the issues,
how do we know the decisions are correct and not like it was in this case,
and seems to stay so even after Cz's intervetion ?

I think the customers community deserves some instrument of control over Funcom's actions,
and this instrument is free press, in this case a central forum.
Yes it is hosted by Funcom, but isn't it in favor of Funcom to show:
"look, we have nothing to hide, we let our cusomers discuss ALL issues public" ?
( sure no one would ask you to allow to discuss exploits mechanic public )

I think also it is was wrong to close the original thread;
i think the main reason for closing was that some FACTs ( logs )was reported
which could damage FC's image
C'mon close this thead too...

[Cz]

Cthonian, no, the thread was closed to allow for me and Steffani - the person who's case this actually is - to communicate over the case in one channel. If I wanted to hide the logs I would have deleted the thread.

I don't mind that the case goes on the bulletin board, but when people post there instead of bringing the case to us, it is - still in my opinion - a cry for attention instead of solution.

It wouldn't have taken much to e-mail me first, wait for my reply, solve the issue, then post it on the bulletin board if needed.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Cthonian
( sure no one would ask you to allow to discuss exploits mechanic public )

Actually, several people have argued for that too.

[Cthonian]

Originally posted by Cz
Cthonian, no, the thread was closed to allow for me and Steffani - the person who's case this actually is - to communicate over the case in one channel. If I wanted to hide the logs I would have deleted the thread.

I don't mind that the case goes on the bulletin board, but when people post there instead of bringing the case to us, it is - still in my opinion - a cry for attention instead of solution.

It wouldn't have taken much to e-mail me first, wait for my reply, solve the issue, then post it on the bulletin board if needed.

hehe sure you could delete it as well, but it would look too bad,
and then really no one would thing of any other reason then hiding something.
Closing affects that the thread will be read by much less ppl.,
since it will not be bumped.
Also less ppl. will answer to this, less ppl. will read thier answers and so on,
so it's quite effective way to "dam up" the issue

[Paffy]

Well har har.. Demios STILL dont have conclusion to his case after 2 weeks and yes, he most likely even dont care anymore since I saw him playing AC2 Beta these days...

Shrug. So you expect people to send email and wait for 2 weeks before getting the attention they deserve? I dont think so.

But hey, it seems you succeeded in a way. Third of the TC (over 15 people) including the original creators have already moved to AC2 Beta and what I've heard/read from TC irc channel, TC is disbanded today.

Quite an accomplishment from FC to drive players away...

Zarch and da chars... former applicant of now disbanded TheCouncil.

[Cz]

Oh, I'm quite sure there will be a new thread on it. Technically, this one already is.

But now I can at least handle the case first.


And Zarch, did I wait for 2 weeks with replying to that issue?

[____________Greystar]

Originally posted by Cz
I don't care who was there first, frankly. Anybody's free to compete for a spawn. If it was an issue of outdamaging them (as you suddenly state now) and they attacked first, and this happened several times, I'd say you're pretty much kill-stealing, and deserve a warning. If that's not what happened, you shouldn't get one.

This doesn't make sense at all. When you are anywhere to kill mobs, you try to hit them as soon as you see them.

So the one who hits "q" faster or has less lag and starts earlier to attack owns the mobs and anyone else must leave ?

[Cz]

Originally posted by Greystar
This doesn't make sense at all. When you are anywhere to kill mobs, you try to hit them as soon as you see them.

So the one who hits "q" faster or has less lag and starts earlier to attack owns the mobs and anyone else must leave ?

Good point.

Kill-stealing has a lot of grey areas, and this is where the GM / ARK has to use their judgement and observe the situation. Writing absolute rules on this is hard, as there's a lot of things we can't check (e.g. who attacked first on the last 10 mobs, and who killed them) without a ton of work.

If you have a suggestion on how to write 100% good rules for kill-stealing, training of mobs on others, and other similar issues, feel free to send them over, and I'll hand them to Customer Service for consideration.

[Cthonian]

Originally posted by Cz

If you have a suggestion on how to write 100% good rules for kill-stealing, training of mobs on others, and other similar issues, feel free to send them over, and I'll hand them to Customer Service for consideration.

I'd say - no need to set any official rules about kill stealing at all,
the community handle it already.
The one who do kill stealing too much will be hated by many,
and even an absolute lowbie becomes powerful one day.
This lowbie will tell his friends etc.
One say: "don't spite in a well, you may be thirsty once".
What Funcom should cut off is real harassing = actually following someone to disturb.
Enforcement of any rule considering so called "kill stealing" will
do more harm then anything good
( what Steffani's story proves ),
in the best case you just waste time/human resouces...

[_____________Lamonia]

With foggy rules you get foggy gaming

Cz answer to your question: - Its of course positive to get direct contact - still the game has too unclear rules wich make the gamers uncertain of what's proper or not - in or out of game - the penalty for exploiting or preexploiting clearly states this fact.

Solution first step - take away every person on RK that is not there for the strate play of an Account Char or Event Mob.

If you get any problems doing this you're free to call me.

Cheers

Lamonia