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Thread: Fix Initiatives! (Except Nano)

  1. #181

    Re: did you ever try one????

    Originally posted by Beartwo


    This weapon will max at 3k (at crit).... normal hits are between 175 and 600.... against mobs.
    I assume you're talking Nova?

    With my MCS (1-400 base), I've seen NORMAL hits of 1300. I regularly see hits in the 900-1100 range. Even with the appx 1/8 drop you'd see from the Nova's slightly lower damage range, you should still be seeing hits in the 800-1000 range very commonly.

    My AR at level 135 is 949. Unwrangled. Dunno how it works for soldiers, though, I don't play one. 50% damage in PvP does suck, I'm not arguing. Damage will be somewhat lower after this, I'm not arguing that, so either heals need to be lowered or damage needs to be restored to 100% to compensate.

    BTW, I *have* tested a Manex. It currently has broken inits, but it hits HARD. I saw normal hits of nearly 2k. Crits were around 2500. Average hit was probably in the 800-1200 range, with a few low hits, a few high ones. Considering that once its init is fixed, I should be able to pull it down to about 1.5/1 at full aggro, I think I'm in business with base damage here.

    Where am I wrong? I stated that there ARE options. Will the options be as good as pre-change? No, but they SHOULDN'T BE.

    Now, on to Peisinoe's point: YES! Crits are a STUPID mechanism. I agree completely. Now, all we need to do is get FC to remove the incredibly high critmods that shottys and certain other weapons (MA fists) get, and we'll be in business.

    As to crits being needed; at level 130+, crit or not, the mobs fall too fast to matter. Far as anyone's told me, that doesn't change for the next 70 levels. So, uh, why do I need to crit again?
    Gunned down the young. Now old, crotchety, and back.

  2. #182

    Re: Re: did you ever try one????

    Originally posted by Kiryat-Dharin

    As to crits being needed; at level 130+, crit or not, the mobs fall too fast to matter. Far as anyone's told me, that doesn't change for the next 70 levels. So, uh, why do I need to crit again?
    Yeah, **** the soloers. Forgot I was paying 12.95 a month for group therapy rather than a game.

    --K

  3. #183
    You forget that asault rifles are hybrid weapons. Offensive check is based off two skills. That's why the AR is not that high.

    Kirat, you will find yourself needing to crit because everyone else crits. Maybe 14.6 will force a lot of people to stop critting.

    However, as you agree, MA can still crit like mad. And they crit for 3k in my teams. My 'normal' base damage of 900-1200 does not compete. (That normal base damage btw comes after getting 210 in outside buffs.) Or come close. THAT is why everyone is so crit reliant.

    Yes, this a good direction to start lessening our dependence on crits. But until there are weapons that can come close to the same level of damage heavy critters do, it will be a nerf. Plain and simple.

    If you'd like to know what your average damage is self buffed, go attack a bartender. Write down all your hits. Divide by number of hits. Then tell me with a straight face that your normal damage with an mcs is 1300. Or anything close to that for that matter.

    You are wrong because for at least one prof, the option of critting like mad will remain. An MA is not going to feel the loss of 7% crit. They will not feel the loss of init. Paper and pen are fine, but in reality, they will continue dealing heavy damage. Until there are non crit reliant weapons that can close in on that, then this 'fix' doesn't fix anything. Frankly, if I was an MA I'd be shouting for this to be looked into further. Because if this does go through the way it seems to be, you will hear a huge outcry of nerfs to the MA profession. I don't want any prof to be nerfed. I want Funcom to bring in the options you pretend there are. Because right now there aren't any. The numbers you give...maybe you actually did some math for them. But they are not the numbers I see in actual gameplay.

    Even those 'great' numbers you posted with the Manex does not close in on this. Team with a title 6 MA. Watch their damage output. Then tell me again that the Manex numbers can come close to competing. (And an MA is also at 1/1 speed.)

    This also really hurts any prof that has dark blue weapon skills. My 190 char can raise a weapon skill 3 points a level. Not 4. Not 5. Low AR=lots of misses, crap damage multiplier. I can tell you what she will be doing without a crit scope. Self buffed, 560 avg damage with an x-3 which she can get 806 attack rating with. Nova flow she can self buff to 715 AR. Let a trader deprive you down to those levels and tell me how effective base damage really is. This game is about crits. As long as there is even one profession out there that can deal out 3k damage 39% (32% after 14.6) plus whatever percentage having higher ar then mob evades gives you, then everyone is forced to attempt to crit in order to keep up. Like I said, if you can't see that, so be it. We'll finish arguing and go our seperate ways.

    The idea is good. The implementation looks very shoddy. I do not want MAs facing a nerf down the line. But if Funcom does not implement this very well, you will hear so much outcry for it, it'll make the trader nerf song seem enlightened in comparison. And I will not be suprised by the outcome.
    Last edited by Zylina; Oct 2nd, 2002 at 01:17:16.

  4. #184

    Re: Re: Re: did you ever try one????

    Yeh, but you do have buffs on both those skills, and last I checked AR/RE don't cross-conflict (though shining head for RE sucks, a lot).

    I'd only need to crit if mobs lasted more than 10 seconds, Pei. A mob, in the groups I play in, lasts between 10 and 30 seconds, maybe 50 if its an atrox enforcer mob. In that kind of time frame, crits just don't matter.

    As to my normal damage with an MCS... last time I whacked on a bartender to check speeds, I averaged around 900 per hit. Crits were around 2300, and happened occasionally.

    Finally... this thread has drifted way off topic. I'm officially closing myself down on ANY discussion of critting, and moving it back to inits.

    Once again: this fix HELPS everyone except for those with >8% scopes. Since >8% scopes are about to become non-existent, this fix helps EVERYONE. It may well help some people in different amounts. But everyone gets some help. Profession balancing, in this case, needs to be subsequent to the bugfix.

    There. That's all I'm trying to say.
    Gunned down the young. Now old, crotchety, and back.

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