Traders and the NERF-STICK

[_______________Verro]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sherrman
[B]Most non traders consider what was done to trader heals to be a fix not a nerf . Traders trade skills/hps/nano/ect. Their heal wasn't working as intended (ie trading their health to heal teammates) and was fixed.

Yeah, i can admit it wasnt working as intended. But while playing a trader for over 6 month and suddenly get all things changed was a nerf. im still not satisfied with the outcome of this change.
But a walk around of this was to use 2 title lvl 6 energybracers and rrf and it was just "almost" like a before besides a delay in reusing the healing. but since the nerf bat now hit bracers it will again hurt worse with the healing.

[_______________Verro]

Forgot 1 more thing when i was on the subject.
The nerf of bracers is also a nerf because of whiners in pvp and
yes this will in same way as everything else just hit pvm and make it harder to lvl.

So before all screams NERF thing abit about this.

[Coldstrike]

Well, using health hagglers you heal almost the same as you could do with delayed health payments. Your ability to heal yourself is almost the same, your ability to heal others is nerfed. That's everyone elses problem..

And the drains, they were not adjusted the way they should have been in the OE patch. They used to take away 30-40% of your damage by draining your attack rating, that is bad enough. Now they also make your weapon itself reduced to 75% or 50% effectiveness. This has squared the effect of drains.

[_______________Verro]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Coldstrike
[B]Well, using health hagglers you heal almost the same as you could do with delayed health payments. Your ability to heal yourself is almost the same, your ability to heal others is nerfed. That's everyone elses problem..
----

Incorrect, my personal heals is half what they used to be.
]

[-kromoz-]

As Hajk said it right, ours drains are the only thing we traders have ... so stop whining for nerfs about it, and ask a nano-resist increase instead you damn nerf whiners ...

that's always the same, some peoples always call for nerfs instead of having good idea to fix problems

Now if you fight a trader, learn how to do it, my MA friend resist 1 deprive on 2 I try to cast him and basically all my plunders, so 50% of ours fights he kills me (max NR plus he fights in full def, and he has 800 NR that ANY profession can get) ...

If you fight a trader without maxed NR, and in full agg you deserve to be owned, period ...

This said, I was talking to high-level pvp, I agree that before lvl 75 traders are way to overpowered, but this situation changes at 150+, so eventual fixs need to be looked at carefully, don't look only at "my lvl 30 get owned by a pvp twink trader"

[illfill]

Originally posted by Lohem

Traders and PvP..... You've got to be flippin' kidding me. A trader can OE any profession that uses any kind of weapon (non-ma) to ZERO percent effectiveness.

God i can't stand when people do this....



LEVEL A CHARACTER TO AT LEAST 100 BEFORE YOU GO WHINING ON THE FORUMS ABOUT NERFS!

A drain at high level doesn't hurt attack rating and weapon effectiveness as much as it does at your lowbie level of 50... PVP is actually quite fair at mid - high level. Their are titled pvp'ers of all proffessions... So please, shut your noob mouth and go level..Traders don't own everything and everyone when all proffessions have matured....so shut it..

[illfill]

Originally posted by Coldstrike
Well, using health hagglers you heal almost the same as you could do with delayed health payments. Your ability to heal yourself is almost the same, your ability to heal others is nerfed. That's everyone elses problem..

LMAO! dude, play a trader, that statement is not even close.... Preeiminent health haggler, if we use it on ourselves, nets us a total of +600 hp...that can't outheal crits, and barely outheals bad dots. So, on the contrary to what you said, our ability to heal OURSELVES has been NERFED, but we can still heal others for a nice 869 every casting...

[Darc]

The main problem is obviously the drains..

Now that the OE rule is in place it cripples everyclass once drained and while there is a recharge of 6 seconds..not so much time when trader is buffed with plenty of hps and reflect shield to absorb any dmg that the person who is already over equipped can deal..

The drains were based on a full dmg system which is now reduced to 50% for pvp 40% specials..so now after being drained we are doing 25% dmg of normal dmg...with there heals which are still very effective being 100%..no take into account reflect shield ..cut that down another 30%....

To fix this i think drains have to be either capped at 40% or do not allow them to make players oe in pvp ..the traders could still get the skill bonus but their opponents skills would be unaffected.

[zjozz]

I really have to agree with Illphill here

[illfill]

Originally posted by Koma
The main problem is obviously the drains..

Sure, for a level 50 pvp'er, of COUSE they are! Big deal! an mmorpg's about growing, and leveling..Everyone strives to achieve a high level, and once you do that drains aren't as detrimental to your skills, especially when it comes to OE....You mean to tell me you'd like to see traders nerfed, and ruin everything myself and other high level traders worked for, to make a bunch of low level twinks/noobies happy in pvp!! c'mon man jeeze!
----

Originally posted by Koma


To fix this i think drains have to be either capped at 40% or do not allow them to make players oe in pvp ..the traders could still get the skill bonus but their opponents skills would be unaffected.

This would not be a fix, it would be a NERF, making one of the last usefull things us traders have USELESS... Hell, drains don't work in pvm on mobs anyway, sure they raise my skills, but do you really hear anyone every say :" hey, let's get a trader on the team, he/she can debuff the mobs so they do a little less damage, and can't/won't nuke us to death" ? No, you don't because the damn nano line doesn't even effect mobs....And that Idea would make this a PVM nano only....

So then you'd have to:

Make Rapid Palsy, nano shutdown, and a few other nano's PVM only heh..

[engelstein]

Originally posted by illphil
Sure, for a level 50 pvp'er, of COUSE they are! Big deal! an mmorpg's about growing, and leveling..Everyone strives to achieve a high level, and once you do that drains aren't as detrimental to your skills, especially when it comes to OE....You mean to tell me you'd like to see traders nerfed, and ruin everything myself and other high level traders worked for, to make a bunch of low level twinks/noobies happy in pvp!! c'mon man jeeze!

This is, of course, utterly and completely wrong. Even a level 200 doc is reduced to using Close Wounds when fully debuffed. That's right, a QL 90 nano from a level 200 doc. Any weapon the doc is using is now at most 50% effective, in addition. Of course this is an extreme example, but who fights Traders at allnowadays? MAs and Enforcers?

This would not be a fix, it would be a NERF, making one of the last usefull things us traders have USELESS... Hell, drains don't work in pvm on mobs anyway, sure they raise my skills, but do you really hear anyone every say :" hey, let's get a trader on the team, he/she can debuff the mobs so they do a little less damage, and can't/won't nuke us to death" ? No, you don't because the damn nano line doesn't even effect mobs....And that Idea would make this a PVM nano only....

Great, you can be the only Trader in the game who doesn't want +400 to all attack skills. I'm sure the rest would be happy to have it.

[_______________Cudus]

This thread is just bull****!
Don't even think about touching our drains, it's what makes a trader a trader ffs.

edit: yeah

[illfill]

Originally posted by Shubalubdub
This is, of course, utterly and completely wrong. Even a level 200 doc is reduced to using Close Wounds when fully debuffed. That's right, a QL 90 nano from a level 200 doc. Any weapon the doc is using is now at most 50% effective, in addition. Of course this is an extreme example, but who fights Traders at allnowadays? MAs and Enforcers?

When I said skills, I was refering to OE on weapons, because that's what the poster of the thread was mainly complaining about, sorry, I though it, but didn't type it..

Originally posted by Shubalubdub
[B]


Great, you can be the only Trader in the game who doesn't want +400 to all attack skills. I'm sure the rest would be happy to have it.

And, did I say I wouldn't want it? Of couse i'd take the +400 to attack rating, but in actuallity,the proposed change makes the skill alot less usefull that it is now ( ok, so not completely useless, but still cruddy)

Oh and, it wouldn't technically be a skill drain either would it?

[______Soldats/Chloei]

"Then we move onto the Adventurer. This guy will heal all ur damage while his DMG shield eats on u. His X-3 rifle will also do pretty descent damage while ur MK is up and when it drops u will die or u have to run to a zone.
Nerf?"


ROFL
*>.<* too funny

MA's with UVC aren't as good as you think they are. With UVC, 1091 attack rating, I still only crit about 1/4 in pvp and 1/5 in pvm. And of course, I have the +8 scope. Traders are indeed too powerful; Chloei is a lvl 9 trader and can kill most pvp twinks with her ql 3 blackjohn or chair.

[____________Finfarin]

Geee maybee if the nano resist skill really worked and you didnt have to be title maxed and running full defensive for it to even remotely have a chance to work this whole arguement wouldnt be taking place.

Stop bickering amongst eachother and demand funcom fix nano resist...

I remember many patches back having max evades and nano resist's, implants and bracers etc. on my MA yet I can recall very few times that i ever resisted a nano cast by a mob or another player in PvP. Regardless of the AGG/DEF slider setting.

At some point evades and the agg/def bar were reworked and seem to work better than the earlier days of AO, but yet nano resist still to this day remains total junk. Before and after they offered the full IP reset I tried maxing that skill and then tried recaliming the points with IPR to see how big of an impact it would have. As far as I could see it made very little if any difference. Try it for yourself and then go to the bothacker or virus builder camps and see for yourself it makes almost no difference whatsoever unless the mobs are grey to you then you *MAY * resist the nanos..

For anything other than PvP nano resist is a total waste of IP

Just my 2 cents

[Think4urself]

Abid,

Originally posted by Abid

Lohem i've never seen you ingame, you on rk2? Anyway this is completely pointless, yes i know, but would you like to duel me? I've never put points into MA skill and i swear i will punch your gimpy soldier ass to death.

Can give you some fresh reasons to whine and b i t c h.

I have a 167 Soldier, 55 Fixer and 50 Advent currently on RK2. If you want to fight any one of those characters you are free to do so.. i don't care. you can usually find me around Tir Arena or in Camelot (my 4th time now) or message me for arena or MMD/2ho/4ho whatever.

I'm not saying that i want to kick your ass or anything.. but we can test some stuff out... because if you are a trader my level fact is you could drain me then drop your gun and hit me with MA and still win just like you said..

That would only prove my point wouldn't it?

Illphill,

Originally posted by IllPhill
LEVEL A CHARACTER TO AT LEAST 100 BEFORE YOU GO WHINING ON THE FORUMS ABOUT NERFS!

Obviously you didn't have the time to click on my name in hypertext at my signature or you would have saw that i have a 167 soldier. This game isn't just about being level 100+ and balance should exist at levels 1-100 just as it should 100-200.

[zjozz]

Lohem,

How bout you level a trader to at least 175 before you go on *****ing about our profession. Maybe then you'll realise traders are friggin weak without our drains, the only REALLY usefull thing we have. I'm a lvl 196 Trader, i use an ithica snakemaster, my AR is 854, i ran into a 185ish Doc last night, she had 879 AR, using the same gun as me... yep.. a doc, having a higher AR..
So that's 854 for me, like 1050ish for every other profession my level?

So you want 40% drains, hmmm, lets see...

40% heals
40% TMS
40% Nullity
40% Unmake/Dominate
40% Init debuffs
40% NSD (that even possible? lol)
40% Crown of Frost
40% mongo
40% rage
40% challenger

i dont think the list ends here.. but you can guess where i'm going... You want that?

****, i dont even care, i'm quitting... have fun ruining the game for dozens of people...

assclown.


Oh, and btw, Nano Resist DOES work...

[gnuman]

You go girl. :P

And actually as true as it can get. Whiners have always and will keep ruining this game. And this thread have a whole bunch of game-destroyers.

[Beartwo]

Originally posted by Rznr
Lohem,

How bout you level a trader to at least 175 before you go on *****ing about our profession. Maybe then you'll realise traders are friggin weak without our drains, the only REALLY usefull thing we have. I'm a lvl 196 Trader, i use an ithica snakemaster, my AR is 854, i ran into a 185ish Doc last night, she had 879 AR, using the same gun as me... yep.. a doc, having a higher AR..
So that's 854 for me, like 1050ish for every other profession my level?

So you want 40% drains, hmmm, lets see...

40% heals
40% TMS
40% Nullity
40% Unmake/Dominate
40% Init debuffs
40% NSD (that even possible? lol)
40% Crown of Frost
40% mongo
40% rage
40% challenger

i dont think the list ends here.. but you can guess where i'm going... You want that?

****, i dont even care, i'm quitting... have fun ruining the game for dozens of people...

assclown.


Oh, and btw, Nano Resist DOES work...

I have 550ish nano resist and I am upping it every lvl I can. Since NR hasnt worked for sooo long a lot of people hae been concentrating on evades and duck.

Trader drains were nigh to impossible to resist before, and even now you must have pretty high NR for it to make any difference. My 550 doesnt seem to make any difference atm.

How does that change the picture?

My attack rating goes out the window, and yours through the roof.

Your argument (and Noers) is perhaps correct for characters who have maxed NR and/or implanted it, 99.9 % of us still dont have that....

Some traders claim that they are nerfed (team heals and such).

I disagree, until you start fighting lvl 195+ characters traders do extremely well, and are prime dmg dealers/debuffers in pvp.

The heals werent suppsed to be used for solo healing anyway

GL man !

[zjozz]

Originally posted by Beartwo


I have 550ish nano resist and I am upping it every lvl I can. Since NR hasnt worked for sooo long a lot of people hae been concentrating on evades and duck.

Trader drains were nigh to impossible to resist before, and even now you must have pretty high NR for it to make any difference. My 550 doesnt seem to make any difference atm.

How does that change the picture?

My attack rating goes out the window, and yours through the roof.

Your argument (and Noers) is perhaps correct for characters who have maxed NR and/or implanted it, 99.9 % of us still dont have that....

Some traders claim that they are nerfed (team heals and such).

I disagree, until you start fighting lvl 195+ characters traders do extremely well, and are prime dmg dealers/debuffers in pvp.

The heals werent suppsed to be used for solo healing anyway

GL man !

Well there's the problem, if you choose not to raise an important defense, suffer the consequences, its like not raising your evades...