Traders and the NERF-STICK

[___________xenomorph]

Originally posted by Kaiousama


And what are the odds that they won't be? With guards/lizards to drain I thought it was pretty much common sense for traders to drain something before fighting anyone...?

you try holding a 3 min buff going while trying to get into a pvp zone, on top of that if you drain while in a %25 zone you'll have not only what you drain attacking you but a player as well. It can be done but is hard to pull off everytime, plus If someone was to see me pre draining a mob before steping into %25 gas (like mmd to say) do you think they will stick around waiting for me to walk over? ah no!

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Bhaaz
Honestly, sometimes a nerf IS necessary. The NT stun nerf for example; most NTs took that in stride with minimal complaint because it really was overpowered in PvP and they realized that. Sometimes a certain overpowered skill cannot realistically be compensated for by "boosting" other classes, and that's when a nerf is necessary.

In my opinion, trader debuffs and docs' full healing are almost as unbalancing as the NT stuns were and DO need adjusting. Most every person except those playing said proffessions agree on that.

In the same way as soldiers never said a word when reflects were nerfed, simply because it was a REQUIRED nerf in order to maintain some degree of playability.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Cudus
A trader can drain you max 415 points.
CHS SMG req: 556
Your SMG skill after divest/plunder advanced: 385

You will be 50% if your smg skill is 800. If it is 805 you will be 75% effective.

I probably ****ed up those calculations since a trader can make your weapon 0% effective, man I want those drains.

Oh yeah, and to do that takes me (169 trader) minimum 20 sec to do. That is 20 sec without healing or rooting. Against good opponents the plunder often gets resisted once or twice, hell I've had my plunder resisted 5x in a row.

Why is it I see soldiers killing people left and right, but still they are the biggest whiners?

Ok, since you are such a smart guy, and have done such a lot of research on the conditions a soldier operates under you would probably know that a maxed out SMG skill for a level 200 solitus is about 659. On top of this we got a +20 general buff, and +50 from TF. TF has a -40 penalty on evades, so not everyone will use this when they PvP, but assuming they do use it it gives a total of 729 SMG skill.

SMG clusters conflict with AR in the bright and shining locations, so theese will not be used. It also crashes with SI in the faded slot, also a cluster that is more important than SMG.

So that leaves 729 SMG. Drain 413 and you got 316 left. Guess that puts you in about 50% effectiveness. Getting to 805 to "only" be 75% is absolutely impossible.

Then take into account that about 40% or more of the attack rating is gone as well. So a 50% effective weapon with 60% attack rating, I'd say that makes you pretty much useless. Taking the increased chance of misses, reduced crit chance, reduced damage etc. into account I would say you are about 25% effective or less with this **** running. So while you spend 20 seconds debuffing us, we spend 3 minutes walking around as a damn gimp.

As for the Nova, yes, if I happened to have it on before I was drained I would not be OE. I would still be -411 on my attack rating tho, and that is bad enough. If I didn't have it on I would have no way of putting it on, unless I had a lower QL backup ready in my bag.

[____________Anikitos]

NR is the key here....

We all have to make sacrifises in one way or another.
Its all about priorities.

A trader is still a tough fight, that is ONLY if he gets his divest off.
If he does that AND the plunder line...you are in trouble.

So obviously you have 2 choices here.

1. Make sure you have high enough NR so that you have a chance
atleast to resist his first divest.

2. Insta kill him, or wear him out.

About the first one.
Enf obviously can if he is HIGH lvl enough(Rage). Thats like lvl 160+ minimum and has not chosen the 1hb path.
1hb is "little" more expensive then 2hb, nm.
Other ppl can to...some proffesions have GREEN NR.

About the second one.
Agents cant do it, have seen it multiple times(3 shot kills).
Soldiers CAN do it, more about that later.


I dont undestand why a soldier cant insta kill a trader.

Me and Cyboot was testing some stuff when we decided to test his alpha without me having rrfe. Had almost 10k hp at the time.
Died from alpha.

Now if he can kill a 10k hp enf with alpha, HOW IN GODS NAME WILL A TRADER SURVIVE THAT ALPHA?

P.S
Cyboot admitted that, that alpha was an extreme one....but still. A trader has LESS hp then an enforcer....
Think about it.

[_______________Cudus]

Thanks for the support Anikitos

Heh Cyboot, his alphas hurt my whimpy trader ass good. Think he did a 2K AS, 1200 fling, 1200 burst, 2K FA on me in 2ho, thats with rrf (thank you soldiers) and hp buffs running giving me about 8K hp. Not much left then is it?

Coldstrike: I was quoting Lohems own numbers, so flame him, not me.

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

NURF eveyone they can kill crats!

I like Fryli's POV, you have to look at the big picture, in big battles there is some dynamic going on that does not need to be ruined for the sake of duels. Everyone has weaknesses, you must learn to exploit them grasshopper, instead of expecting the world to change for your lack of ingenuity.

[sillytheclown]

Ok, why not make 2 seperate lines on the deprives/ plunders

1 line goes to nano skills, the other line to offensive things.

This would 1 force a trader to pick who and what he gets rid of on his enemy. Not all at once.

Some of us under 200 can't have a 1600 Nano resist.

just don't think a 125 can do it, sorry :P. not even going to try.

See you when i get my guns on, and 200 implants..

Hope to hit 126 in about 2 years


SS

[_______________North]

Ankitos, you forgot to mention that enforcers are only profession in this game that have a good nano resist. The highest I can get it as a NT is just above 1k, does not take many tries to get 100% nano to stick, so I am clad that your profession has ability to protect yourself...how about rest of us?

And yes, I have tested how good 1k Nano Resist is against 100% nanos.

And soldier killing a trader on LUCKY alpha. Thats like 1/10 chance of getting them high enough.

[_______________North]

Coldstrike, how many professions do you know that have naturally as high attack rating as soldiers? Umm, none.

This is pretty pointless comparison, as nano of the other professions apart from soldiers or traders have that high ARs. How about rest of us? We are overequipped by default unless we use ql 160ish weapons.

[________________cam9]

When i go in arena , i see that 8/10 players between lvl 1 to 75 are trader. It s sad to see only 1 profession in a game which have 12 professions no ?

If i want pvp at low level , i haven t choice it seems that if i want win sometimes , i must do a trader .

Now for high level pvp , i don t think they need a nerf , they are good like that , we can kill them , 2 soldiers alpha them and they are dead , and i can t imagine a trader without his debuff.

Sure i dislike this plunder and divest but i dislike MKX who permit to soldier to be invincible for 1mn20 ( and who can tank easy 5+ players ) , i dislike CH from doc , i dislike UVC from MA , i dislike GA4 from fixer ...

A high level MA with his soldier gun and UVC can kill most professions , but he have a problem with doc and trader , consequently some MA want nerf them ... hum ...

Now soldiers, yes it s easy to kill them in duel , but they are the best profession in large battle with their MKX. If they are so bad why i see always all this soldiers in 2ho , and generally they aren t freshman ?
My opinion is soldiers are balanced like that , u can t be the best anywhere , and they needn t love , if u give love to soldiers in duel, u must nerf them in large battle . But i don t think they will accept it .

Oki to nerf trader 75- , but don t nerf the 75+ , it will be stupid

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by North
Coldstrike, how many professions do you know that have naturally as high attack rating as soldiers? Umm, none.

This is pretty pointless comparison, as nano of the other professions apart from soldiers or traders have that high ARs. How about rest of us? We are overequipped by default unless we use ql 160ish weapons.

Uhm.. Soldiers seems to be cursed with having to use 66/33 weapons to be effective, and theese always have conflicting cluster positions. To name a few that has as high attack rating as soldiers or higher:

- Fixers, assuming they go pure SMG
- Adventurers, assuming they go pure pistol or 1he
- Agents, assuming they go rifle
- Enforcers, assuming they go 1hb or 2hb
- MAs, assuming they go fists
- Engineer, assuming they go MA with transference
- Trader, using whatever they want due to drains..


So unless you play a doc, a crat, a mp or a NT, chances are you got the same or higher attack rating..

I can post numbers to back this up, just don't feel like wasting 30 minutes right now to dig them up.

If you are one of the 7 professions I listed and are overequipped by default, then that must be because you went ahead and did something lame, like putting on a CHS.

[Hajkster]

just wanted to say one thing (Before i got sleep) that Trader's is counting all their power on drains.... They are a Very weak proffesion without them =p like nts without nukes... =)

oh just my two tired cents gnites!

[CheeseNips]

Originally posted by Anikitos
I dont undestand why a soldier cant insta kill a trader.

Me and Cyboot was testing some stuff when we decided to test his alpha without me having rrfe. Had almost 10k hp at the time.
Died from alpha.

Now if he can kill a 10k hp enf with alpha, HOW IN GODS NAME WILL A TRADER SURVIVE THAT ALPHA?

P.S
Cyboot admitted that, that alpha was an extreme one....but still. A trader has LESS hp then an enforcer....
Think about it.

he got lucky. pure and simple. you were probibly at full agg as well...which will help with that. i've never once killed anyone that was within 20 levels of me with just an alpha.

[_______________North]

remember that damage is not only halved but also capped at 40% per hit against your total Hit Points. So killing someone just might be possible with lucky row of high FA, burst and fling.

[Think4urself]

So.. just recapping here.

The only profession to say that "adjusting" traders in pvp.. were, uhhh, Traders.

The general agreement is that they are overpowered.

I'm sorry if people i know ingame are taking this the wrong way, but this is something that everyone is aware of but nobody talks about.

The Pvp issue in itself is screwed... 100% heals and 50% damage is just retarded.

Any game where a merchant can consistently beat all of the combat classes in PvP is terribly unballanced.

I'm not saying docs need nerfed.. i think the balance will come back for them when they fix the 100% heal, 50% damage junk.

In the mean time.. Adjust Skill Drains in PvP

[CheeseNips]

bump

[________________Abid]

Lohem i've never seen you ingame, you on rk2?

Anyway this is completely pointless, yes i know, but would you like to duel me?

I've never put points into MA skill and i swear i will punch your gimpy soldier ass to death.

Can give you some fresh reasons to whine and b i t c h.

[_______________Verro]

cry cry cry, im so tired of all you whiners.
We have already been nerfed once that hurted us bad.
Why dont take away the drains now instead so we are... the most useless profession in the game. yes we will be like an engi without the pet.
Most of these nerfs just hurts pvm all the time.
So if dont fight traders in pvp then instead of all this.

[______________Sredni]

Most non traders consider what was done to trader heals to be a fix not a nerf . Traders trade skills/hps/nano/ect. Their heal wasn't working as intended (ie trading their health to heal teammates) and was fixed.

Anyways I'm almost at the point where I won't duel traders with Sherrman . It's no fun having all my nano abilities put into negative, and having my attack rating halved, then having all my nano points drained, and a good chunk of health as well. And as I'm melee I'm pretty much sol against the chain rooting bastards . Feeding title points to traders isn't anyone's goal I don't think . Being willing to fight anyone (who mostly turn out to be traders and smurphs) is the reason I'm almost freshman again .

[Rubirango]

A trader can OE any profession that uses any kind of weapon (non-ma) to ZERO percent effectiveness.

Lol typical from a level 74 twink. At level 150+ even with the top 2 drains youll be at about 50% worst unless you are a Moron using ql 125 imps and a high req wep (like beam)