Traders and the NERF-STICK

[Think4urself]

First, I am fully aware I am about to be flamed by every Trader on Rubi-Ka.... so flame away, i'm prepared

Traders and PvP..... You've got to be flippin' kidding me. A trader can OE any profession that uses any kind of weapon (non-ma) to ZERO percent effectiveness.

This means that you will never hit the Trader... your screen will flood with "you tried to hit Traderkickingyourass, but missed."

I am a level 167 Soldier using a QL200 CHS with title maxed Assault Rifle, FULL QL200 AR implants, AR mastery and Total Focus.. My AR is at 1007 and SMG is about 800. With just two drains I am at 25% on my gun and then hit the trader for minimum damage only... with just one more drain i'm at zero% and not hitting at all.

It is also at this time that the Traderkickingmyass has about 1400~ attack rating against my TITLE maxxed Evades which for duck exp is about 750.... ROFLMAO hahahahahha

They have root and AREA root. I think the only profession that has a small chance against any trader is MA.. because if an MA has 1000 MA damage lets say he hits for 500~ and crits for 2.5k or so ( I don't know exactly, don't quote me on that ) when drained like 400 he will still hit for 300~ and crit maybe for about 1.5k or so.. A soldier or other weapon based profession will hit for 500-1000 at 1000 Attack Rating depending on weapon and and crit for 2.5k~ but if you debuff that by 400 then you are at ZERO percent effectiveness.

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE ABOUT TRADER DRAINS IN PVP.

I am not crying for a NERF, I'm asking for a Fix... because this is obviously some broken aspect of the game that was never ever intended to be this way....

Add to that.. everyone and their momas are making traders for pvp now.... IT'S CRYING "NERF ME, PLEASE GOD, NERF ME!!".

I've played every class.. and Trader till level 74 (BigFreQ, Atrox Omni, RK2). I twinked out and even after the heal nerf the OE patch was there, and I was even more powerful than before. It was sick and I deleted the character... you can verify that, the Gods honest truth

I didn't delete him because he was too powerful but more because nobody that wasn't another trader would dare duel me, I resorted to ganking in MMD which i did not enjoy and I did not want to level him, because he was build just for PvP as a level 74 twink... so he's dead. btw... he was level 74 and used a 190 Windchaser which was not OE when i Drained my opponent twice (one divest and one plunder).

I'm sure i'm going to get flamed here by the Traders.. but there as to be a small percentage of Traders that agree that they are ridiculously overpowered and need to be "adjusted".

Please post all replies... Flames, Recomendations, Opinions ect... I am ready and Prepared.

BUMP for a Trader "Fix", "Adjustment", "Nerf" whatever the hell you want to call it..... give them some love, but bring on the hate.

[Think4urself]

Solution Number One:

Make all Drains, MOB/monster only. This way Traders can still drain to use higher equipment, cast higher QL nanos, debuff monsters in team missions/hunt ect.....

PvP they would still have NanoPool Drains, HP Drains/Transfers HP from target to Trader, Roots and Area Roots and uber Shotty Damage.

Taking the Skill Drain out of PvP would not underpower the trader but atleast put them on same level with other classes.

Make Skill Drains Mob/Monster ONLY

[CheeseNips]

make the drains 40% on a player

won't "fix" things, but it will make them more balanced

[____________Slipstar]

LOL another joke who waits till hes 150+ to pvp then crys when he get killed
i dont normaly flame people but the whiners are really starting to get to me

[CheeseNips]

polgra lvl 170 doc
bloggs lvl 122 trader

that made me laugh

[Blackwing]

Originally posted by polgra
LOL another joke who waits till hes 150+ to pvp then crys when he get killed
i dont normaly flame people but the whiners are really starting to get to me

well i guess your opinion and sense is not so much in the post but in the signature - trader AND doctor.

what a coincidence

[binaural]

lol yes, it is rather overpowering.. ask people like Abid, when people see traders they run. traders cannot ask people for duels cause everyone knows they will get totally and utterly owned.

with khaelar sleeves at lvl 200 i had 1110 attack rating. after debuffs i had a dime over 700.. all I could do was miss.

alpha strike? from a lvl 200 soldier? hmmm this might work on a trader.. nope, in all my experiences it has profven to be overated. even when my opponent isnt running rrfe. It would seem traders can heal very well even after thier "nerf"... i dont play a trader just going by what i see.

I have been pvping since AO was released. with may different characters through all the changes this game has gone through.. and traders have always ownedt he pvp scene.. there was a time before the tms/burst/fa/damage nerf to soldiers that we owned and so did agents.. but at the time there was no traders.

then came the jannerik and cheddar era.. they were really thte only traders but they owned sooo bad, i am sure they died alot too but it was pretty sick!

soon people realised they were good in pvp. and everyone and thier mom and dad and sisters cousin in germany made one. they ripped up ( and still do ) the low level pvp scene. I saw everyday at least 1-2 different rookie or apprentice traders around level 30.

then the market bombed so many traders.. they wouldnt fight each other and no one would fight them. some leveled up to be pimp daddy own j00 in high lvl pvp traders.. others dissapeared.

in the early days with my NT.. traders owned me.

them with my MP, traders owned me, hell they sent my demon back on my arse!

then with my soldier.. every 10 levels i thought i might stand a chance. but no.... through 200 levels with my soldier i only legitimatly killed a trader once, infamousduck in a duel in mmd.. and it was because he screwed up.


this is just my case, everyones story is different.. funcom doesn't know what thier doing, nor do they care. a class designed around tradeskills owns all others. a class designed around combat gets owned by all others.

i doubt anything will change, though..

[CheeseNips]

that reminds me of a post you made about a soldier with a bfg getting killed by a clerk at a store....

[___________xenomorph]

first of all you dont understand the life of playing a trader just because you had a lvl 74 twink (i can make 1 in a week max) playing a prof for a week or so speed lvling does not count for haveing true knowledge of how the prof is, it just means you have some insight.


debuff debate thread

Goto the thread linked above. We have had this discussion for the past 2 weeks. everyone has had good points for and against trader debuffs. But the problem people like you don't understand/care about is how it will effect us players in the long run playing our class. Just because you are haveing a hard time fighting a trader dose not mean they are unbeatable. what you don't like a challenge?

I'll point a flaw i your agrument. You stated how in 2 debuffs a trader can kill you because your gun will be OE. but yet you don't mention 2 things

1. soliders can alpha kill a trader before the 1st drain is landed.
2. trader drians have a 5 sec recharge so in the time we are rechargeing we cant cast root health drain (which has crap dmg for its lvl) but sit there and shoot, praying for a crit.

have no problem with drains geting reworked for pvp as long as it dosent make traders completly useless. here is 2 examples I listed in the other thread for a pvp and pvm fix. Just so you know I understand they need to be adjusted, but at the same time I don't want to be made into a gimp (that happened when I played a NT)

1. make new nano lines 1 for pvp and 1 for pvm

pvp: drain nano lines gives trader buff from drain 2 mins and the person they cast on gets drained for 30 secs (sounds fair)

pvm: trader gets a drain nano line only castable on mobs that last for 5 mins on the trader (this way we don't have to sit in the fricking BY all day to give 131 wangles.

2. or rework deprive and ransack

make deprive only drain weapon skills

and ransack only drain nano skills.

P.S the proffs that can slap a trader silly if played well enf, ma, doc, mp, and even a soldier.

[gnuman]

whiners'R'us @ pvp-board.

[_____________Borrace]

Originally posted by polgra
LOL another joke who waits till hes 150+ to pvp then crys when he get killed
i dont normaly flame people but the whiners are really starting to get to me

why would you make a comment like this? how do youknow that lohem or his armor of other characters don't pvp? you don't. you have no clue.

have fun playing with your trader ganking people who won't duel you.

[_____________Skygrin]

Originally posted by xenomorph
first of all you dont understand the life of playing a trader just because you had a lvl 74 twink (i can make 1 in a week max) playing a prof for a week or so speed lvling does not count for haveing true knowledge of how the prof is, it just means you have some insight.


debuff debate thread


I'll point a flaw i your agrument. You stated how in 2 debuffs a trader can kill you because your gun will be OE. but yet you don't mention 2 things

1. soliders can alpha kill a trader before the 1st drain is landed.
2. trader drians have a 5 sec recharge so in the time we are rechargeing we cant cast root health drain (which has crap dmg for its lvl) but sit there and shoot, praying for a crit.



P.S the proffs that can slap a trader silly if played well enf, ma, doc, mp, and even a soldier.

erg this makes me laff... soldiers can kill a trader before the first drain is landed?? 50% dmg, 40% cap, 72% bracers.. umm hell no we can't.. even excluding the bracers, a max dmg alpha means hes at 50% hps or more... laff laff laff laff har har har

docs can do well against anyone, specially ifthey get thier init debuff off b4 trader deprives em.
MAs well Mas rock no don't nerf them thats not what im saying
but trader has been the dominant class in pvp for a very long time.

[zjozz]

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[________Billy Talent]

Ok, just in case you missed it traders aren't "as" powerful when their drain is resisted. And if you are a class that can debuff they become very killable. I can understand a soldier's frustration but I don't feel sorry for you guys either. I mean your highest MK shield lasts for 1 min and 20 secs if I am correct. A century in PvP battle in my book.

I think with about 700nr and fighting on full defense you are able to resist on a 50/50 basis. The probelm is at low levels they are
-->unbeatable<---. They can drain any class without any type of resistance and the only profession that can stand a chance to traders at low levels are traders themselves.

I like the idea of a reduction in debuffs and healing in PvP. If damage is capped, so should debuffs and heals.

[___________xenomorph]

Originally posted by Skygrin


erg this makes me laff... soldiers can kill a trader before the first drain is landed?? 50% dmg, 40% cap, 72% bracers.. umm hell no we can't.. even excluding the bracers, a max dmg alpha means hes at 50% hps or more... laff laff laff laff har har har

docs can do well against anyone, specially ifthey get thier init debuff off b4 trader deprives em.
MAs well Mas rock no don't nerf them thats not what im saying
but trader has been the dominant class in pvp for a very long time.

yeah your a real expert

Former owner of: Naime Lvl 22 soldier .. deleted...
CptValkis lvl 18 soldier .. deleted...
houge .. lvl 36 soldier .. deleted...
jexe0 lvl 35 soldier ... deleted...
shall i go on?
in current possesion of :
Nibbal lvl 106 soldier (FU-n FU-n)
lvl 8 trox engi .. me main methinks

[CheeseNips]

Originally posted by xenomorph


1. soliders can alpha kill a trader before the 1st drain is landed.

teeeheee! this is funny. i did an alpha on a level 70ish trader the other day in 2h0 and did not come close to killing him. love how my alpha damage can vary to much... would be nice if a trader drain or heal was the same.......

[___________xenomorph]

Originally posted by calvara


teeeheee! this is funny. i did an alpha on a level 70ish trader the other day in 2h0 and did not come close to killing him. love how my alpha damage can vary to much... would be nice if a trader drain or heal was the same.......

how is a lvl 172 sol fighting a lvl 70ish trader?

[_______________Cudus]

A trader can drain you max 415 points.
CHS SMG req: 556
Your SMG skill after divest/plunder advanced: 385

You will be 50% if your smg skill is 800. If it is 805 you will be 75% effective.

I probably ****ed up those calculations since a trader can make your weapon 0% effective, man I want those drains.

Oh yeah, and to do that takes me (169 trader) minimum 20 sec to do. That is 20 sec without healing or rooting. Against good opponents the plunder often gets resisted once or twice, hell I've had my plunder resisted 5x in a row.

Why is it I see soldiers killing people left and right, but still they are the biggest whiners?

[_____________Element]

Debuffs are meant to affect MOBS..not people. And -as we all know- mobs have like 100x the hitpoints of a normal everyday person, have (speaking as if the mob were a player) all skills capped, ect...ect.

So you turn a debuff ...let's say a deprive...on a person...it's brutal. Sure like 99% of the flamers on this board are traders, not like I care. Anyway...When i pvp a trader, first thing they do is stack the drains. Fully drained, i'll crit for about 300ish...even with my 1200ish buffed attack rating. Not to mention it boosts THEIR attack rating through the roof, making evades useless at this point. About the only thing that gets me through trader fights are brawls, dimach and ql200 FoL and bracers. Even then, its just barely.

Yah im probably going to get flamed for this by all of the traders out there....but just so you know, i made my MA before MAs were uber. We all remember how bad MA sucked back then. Rooted, drained, dead. Everyone else had 15% scopes and UVC running, and range/debuffs on top of that. I made my MA because MAs were fun, not because i knew they were uber. How many of you traders can say "i made a trader because i wanted to be pestered for wrangles every 30 seconds, not because i knew they were almost god-like..."

and ( hahaha) calvara...glad you pointed that out. First flamer on this board is both trader and a doc...ahaha. thats gold.

If anything, they should add a zone-limit. That way you traders/docs/soldiers cant pop an init debuff, deprive or TMS and zone back in, You should have to wait a certain amount of time, thus eliminating bunker hopping, ect..ect....but im getting off the topic..thats another thread all together.

[Think4urself]

Originally posted by xenomorph
I'll point a flaw i your agrument. You stated how in 2 debuffs a trader can kill you because your gun will be OE. but yet you don't mention 2 things

1. soliders can alpha kill a trader before the 1st drain is landed.

You have obviously never fought a soldier in PvP or never been alpha striked. With self buffed Attack of 950 my alpha rarely takes off 25% of the total HP for someone my equal level and the most I've ever taken off is about 50% which is usually insta healed back by any heal class... Then i have to reload which takes up around 5+ seconds because i just emptied my magazine.

In PvM i can alpha with on regular shot in between up to about 20k... In PvP with outside shield buffs, bracers and highest ACS on all armor for projectile which is what CHS does.. i usually Alpha for 3k on average if my Full Auto doesn't take a shizat, that's based on an oppenent with about 6k + HP.. now I have to reload and wait for specials to recycle....

"Go to Full Defense" you say? do you know how slow a 2.5/2.5 gun is at full defense?

after PvP patch I have never seen apha insta-kill anyone... MAYBE if i ganked a lvl 75 character, but surly not someone of equal or greater level.

Originally Posted by Polgra
polgra lvl 170 doc
bloggs lvl 122 trader

LMAO.. your too funny? why am i not suprised that you said that hahahah

And like Borrace said.. I don't just pvp with my Soldier.. i've had nearly 20 differnt character thought this past year and pvped with all of them.. several low level twinks, MP, NT, Trader, Doc, Advent ect.... I've had Freshman on every character for atleast a while, and Rookie on two. I keep 3 character atm and deleted all others.. Freshman fixer, Rookie Advent and my Soldier has lost and gained titles a hand full of times

So, NO!, I'm not making **** up.

Originally posted by Rznr
/PUKE

Here, take this bucket
/me hands Rznr a paper cup.

Originally Posted by Vegan
Ok, just in case you missed it traders aren't "as" powerful when their drain is resisted. And if you are a class that can debuff they become very killable. I can understand a soldier's frustration but I don't feel sorry for you guys either. I mean your highest MK shield lasts for 1 min and 20 secs if I am correct. A century in PvP battle in my book.

I think with about 700nr and fighting on full defense you are able to resist on a 50/50 basis.

Not true.. I maxed nano resist and did tests... NR about 700~ Shaded landed debuffs on me (thanks for test bro) also so did Gplus and level 200 trader Knas.... All clanners and very cool to help me do these tests while i was at Tir Arena. I was on full Defense and all bebuffs landed.. you have to have buffed and implanted about 1k+ for these to work and even then it's 50/50.. roots resist better and when they do land they don't last as long.

but like i said before.. try firing a 2.5/2.5 weapon on full defense.. it's not even funny.


that's it for now