Ethics

[Maximilian]

Disclaimer (directed to Cz):
Please, Cz, do not read this post until next week!
I assume, you are under enormous pressure to get 14.5 out and this will continue until the first emergency patch has made it to the live dimensions - so, I fully understand, that you can't answer within the next few days.

According to what we learned in this thread, even FC personnel is human, so they are to be respected and treated as such. I hope, I'll make it. [btw. Cz, what sort of fuel are you using, still beer or do you already need infusions? ]

Talking about inconsistencies, one of the main reasons people will leave AO:

I was surprized by your latest statement:

Powerleveling exploit

Just as of today, you consider this as an exploit? Soso? Yes, I know, Cosmik announced it to become an exploit in case of ... . But honestly, explain me, how should I - the stupid standard gamer - interprete this? By now a sufficiently large number of players has gained a too large number of levels, so that all the others that would like the use the mechanism as well are exploiters.
According to your procedures established so far all the levels gained in this way until yesterday are not exploited, or? And just in case, you try to be consequent this time, don't even try to tell me. I seriously doubt, that FC has the man power and/or the tools to track all individual cases down, nor can they afford banning such a massive ammount of accounts (must be large, otherwise it wouldn't have become an exploit).

You know what? I am feeling really crappy right now. I think, this is the biggest case of inconsistency I experienced so far, maybe beaten by the LLTS incident, what was announced in advance, at least. Consistency means, that are all treated the same, or am I wrong here?

I want my share of free levels as well! (not really, but that would be consistent)

So long,

Max(imilian)

[Cz]

Originally posted by Warlock
The point was Akustic was not banned (nor any of the threads locked so I can only assume no official action was taken) for doing exactly the same thing days later

Seems you missed my point too: I got Drabin reported. I didn't get Akustic reported. If I don't get it reported - i.e. I don't see it - I can't do much about it.

I see a lot on the bulletin board when I read and answer, but I don't see it all. Drabin's posts I didn't see personally until somebody pointed them out for me. Akustic's posts I didn't see, and nobody pointed them out.

If what Akustic did happened a while back now, I won't backtrack and du a suspension for it. Report it next time it happens, and I'll be on it.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Maximilian
But honestly, explain me, how should I - the stupid standard gamer - interprete this?

You should - says the hopefully not-so-stupid standard Community dewd - interpret it as "we did a big mistake at not smashing the exploit tag on it immediately".

Yes, that means some 'got away' with it, while others don't. That's how it goes with all exploits where backtracking is extremely hard. Searching for this in the logs will take one tough query, looking for a pattern of actions, so I doubt we will track down and suspend the people using is before we had to act on this.

Btw, I'm not too stressed about the patch (already delayed one day ), but currently I am operating Community almost entirely alone (others are out traveling), so I have more than enough to do.

[___________Catalyste]

If no one does it, it's not an exploit, since no one knows it exists (Sort of like yelling in the middle of a forest, no one to hear you)...BUT when someone finds it, they tend to tell SOMEONE, and even the darkest of secrets ALWAYS get told here, people LOVE kowing the scoop, and being able to tell someone else is a power trip. OF course it takes a while for the community team to research and decide what to do, sort of a "ripple effect." But poeple always talk, and so sooner or later they find out

[Maximilian]

I am all with you, Cat.

Knowledge itself isn't an exploit, but usage of this knowledge could very well be.

I like that sentence: ...and being able to tell someone else is a power trip.

It touches some dark side of my soul, and I don't like to be caught.


Nevertheless, as Cz indicated and Scorus cited and stated very clearly shortly after this was reported the first time on the boards:

According to (known and) published guidelines this should have been rated as an exploit from the first moment.

There was no (obvious) need for the 'lousy'* statement a large number of people now can rely on. (Sigh, and me old idiot knows a high level NT - wish I would know how it worked ...)

* Sorry, Cos, but that must have been one of 'weaker' posts - qualified for the 'Never, never again list', eh?

Cz, while you are not 'that' busy - I am a decent SQL programmer - need somebody to hunt the database - lol, forget it, I am to expensive.

Thanks, btw. I owe you one.

So long,

Max(imilian)

[Darkbane]

Originally posted by Catalyste
and being able to tell someone else is a power trip

Hmm... wow, I agree with Max, that's one of the deepest things I've read on these boards

And yes, this was clearly an exploit by FCs defenition. However, Cz has admitted they were wrong (which takes guts) and whilst I'll be witholding cookies for a day as punishment then that is that. People err, move on (but learn).

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Cz

Seems you missed my point too: I got Drabin reported. I didn't get Akustic reported. If I don't get it reported - i.e. I don't see it - I can't do much about it.

I see a lot on the bulletin board when I read and answer, but I don't see it all. Drabin's posts I didn't see personally until somebody pointed them out for me. Akustic's posts I didn't see, and nobody pointed them out.

If what Akustic did happened a while back now, I won't backtrack and du a suspension for it. Report it next time it happens, and I'll be on it.

Ok so after this I though 'fair point, I didnt report the threads', just bumped then to try and get them noticed. Well over the weekend I've seen 2 other posts that break the forum rules so I thought I'd report them myself to see if they were 'delt with' I even gave all day Monday to let them catch up of the weekend. Well here we are on Tuesday morning and the threads are still open. Now one is just a simple spamming thread (similar to Drabin and Akustics) however the second one runs along these lines

Originally posted by Kiryat-Dharin


Get over it. It's an expansion of game-play. They aren't shafting you by charging for it.

I hope, genuinely hope, that engies tradeskills are made very useful in the process of creating these towers. I'm not holding my breath, but I'm also not being a sarcastic wanker.

I'm sure I dont have to point out the problem part?

Now first off let me say that yes, this was directed at me, and no I dont care (takes a wee bit more than this to offend me). But this is about a level playing field, and it just isnt happening

[Warlock]

Cz, at the risk of coming across really petty, you missed the thread in the Trader forum :-)

(mans gotta bump his post count somehow seeing as I'm so close)

[___________Catalyste]

OK here is a request for help/advice, whatever:

A few weeks ago I happened across someone sporting what appeared to be a spiffy new weapon, it had this neat glow all around it, and I had never seen it before. Being not all that interested in the latest and greatest stuff for myself, but as curious as the "Cat" that I am I decided to ask this person (who will remain nameless):

"Wow, what is that? It has a neat glow on it "
"You mean this? Hehe, sorry."
"I do not want to buy to take it from you, I only use pistols anyway, so it's ok. Did you think I wanted it?"
"It does not matter *smiles*"
"Ok I am confused, is there something wrong with it? Or do you think I wanted to kill you for it? (We were in a PvP area) I do not PvP, I was just visiting "
"Oh no, not at all."
"Is it new?"
"Maybe."
/me is confused (I got wary at this point) "Ok, would it be possible for me to obtain a weapon like that?"
"*smiles* No, not yet."
"Er pardon my denseness here, but how did you get it?"
"I cannot tell you that either "
"Argh"


Incident number 2, a few days later, different person:

"Hey that armour, what is it? Strange looking..."
"Shhh!"
"????"
"Sorry, don't ask"
"I do not understand"
"It's coming soon, just don't tell anyone I have it, ok?"
(I never figured out what I was not supposed to tell anyone)

In this second case, we were NOT in PvP...but it is no less confusing.

Incident #3 (happened more than once with different people)

In a mission team, one of our teammates starts flashing all sorts of items with ridiculous stats, and things I have never heard of. When I asked where did you get that? All I got was a "hehehe"

Incident #4

Visiting in Camelot, I was sitting talking to another player in the 100% area, about nothing in particular, when some people come over and ask me to leave. I wanted to know why, and they said they just needed to clear out the dungeon so that the monsters would respawn. The person I was talking to gave me a quick lesson why they wanted me to leave, and the "respawning" was NOT it. Needless to say, we sat at the fire, and kept chatting, when some more people come and ask me to leave, stating that the dragon will not respawn unless we go. Confused, I asked how the dragon so far away would be affected by our presence at the top of the stairs. One of them, apparently frustrated calls some reinforcements in in a few moments in, and then 4 of them try to pay me to leave, I politely said I was not going to PvP and did not see how I was hurting anyone. One says "Fine. Cmon we will handle this." A few minutes later, my friend vanishes...and within seconds I appear in the middle of Newland. Hmmm...My friend is livid, and I am confused...(I have since been informed what likely happened).

My only question with each of these, with such a supposed effort to hold people more and more accountable, why? What did I miss? I may be blonde, but I am not that gullible...*sighs*

[Maximilian]

Hey, Cz, if you happen to pass by this thread (as you did already), these are the things that will keep a lot of 'normal people' from playing this game, and that is a shame.

Do I have to say, that I take Cat's word over yours or any other Funcom official, although I never met her.

So long,

Max(imilian)

[Cz]

Unfortunately I hear about people showing off weapons and armor all the time, but I never ever hear names. If anybody have names in such issues, I can look into them. Until that happens, I can't do anything, and will simply have to treat this as rumors.

Note that people can edit a reference to be whatever they want. If you want to confirm the information, ask them to show it in the trade window.

Cat, please bring the 4th incident to Customer Service through e-mail. I can't do very much about it myself.

Closing this thread, as the original issue is more or less done with. Remember that you can always e-mail be about such things.