Review: Melle professions

[Graviuz]

:O keeper is 2he?, always god an impression they use piercing, no wonder my keepur sucks ><

[SSK]

it's funny when people compare ALL ranged special attacks vs melee attacks. only 2 ranged profs use them all, it's sol and fixer (funny recharge on fix FA and hotswapping for sol AS). and almost all melee proffesions use ALL melee specials attacks. with some exceptions ofcourse like SA for 2HE etc. it's impossibe to comapre everything vs everything in this game, like al ranged attacks vs all melee attack and all melee profs vs all ranged profs. i agree some like enfs and shades need some love in MASS PvP, but screaming keepers is pathetic.

[NoGoal]

FA recharge for fixers is faster than most perks recharge. And your point about melee using more specials than ranged is quite funny when you see agents using AS/FA/SA/Dimach... Also, only 2 profs can use BS and dimach (on the dmg part) is nerfed for 2 melee classes.

OFC you can compare all ranged vs all melee. What's the point of being melee when most ranged profs have CC abilities, 2 specials that can do 13k & 15k PvP dmg with low recharge, range, ... Do melee profs have tools to counter that? No. Do they have the same damage output coming from specials? No. Can they alpha their target from 30m away or kite them? No.

Is there anything melee specific that you would like to have? No...

[lusthorne]

it's funny when people compare ALL ranged special attacks vs melee attacks. only 2 ranged profs use them all, it's sol and fixer (funny recharge on fix FA and hotswapping for sol AS). and almost all melee proffesions use ALL melee specials attacks. with some exceptions ofcourse like SA for 2HE etc. it's impossibe to comapre everything vs everything in this game, like al ranged attacks vs all melee attack and all melee profs vs all ranged profs. i agree some like enfs and shades need some love in MASS PvP, but screaming keepers is pathetic.

Do tell how this is pathetic?

Is it pathetic to want to be at least viably balanced just like the other melee professions after our defense was also ripped a new one from nerfs? I think not.

*EVERY* ranged pvper has *AT LEAST* aimed shot as a special.

While I can only really speak as a keeper when talking about melee, it does not discount my points whatsoever.

It is instead all the people who see the word keeper and automatically just tune out everything said that are part of the problem.

You all want to keep crying "waah waah" Keeper is a lovechild, or "waah waah" adv is a lovechild, or "waah waah" it's been X amt of time for professions X, Y, and Z, to get some love, and now u wanna nerf it.

This is utter BULL and if you would actually read posts instead of inserting stereotypes you might see it.

What is being brought up and so conveniently shot down is not that ranged have RANGE, it's an obvious advantage and it shouldn't be done away with. More over it is that the offensive power is so screwed up pvpwise it isn't even funny.

Nor am I advocating nerfing anyone.

You all love to cite how amazingly awsome some of our alphas are.

*News flash*

Our alphas take a long time to land because they are all perks. *WOW*
Our alphas don't work vs anyone with good evades *WOW*

_YOUR_ alphas *can* work because they largely involve instant hit specials, one of which doesn't even CHECK evades.

Here's a simple one admittedly using an all too familiar scapegoat: Who is a fixer going to fear more, 3 melee profs or 3 people packing aimed shot? My money is going with the people packing aimed shot because it's the only bloody thing that lands.

Hell, who is an enforcer going to fear more? A keeper or an agent? My money is on the agent.

People can scream "zomgz learn your prof" in ignorance all you like, but the facts remain that melee is just hosed right now for pvp.

If all you want to see is "Oh it's just another 'whining' keeper, pfft screw that lovechild" you are missing the entire point and you are worthlessly blinded by stereotyped opinion, to which I can only hope that one day you actually open your eyes. I speak from a largely keeper point of view and the same views are easily applied to melee in general in many respects.

[SSK]

if you look at your post from other side why agents use SA/dimach (melle attacks) ? looks like there's something ranged want from melee. i'm prety sure more melee profs use AS tho, not talking MA has support for bow since launch of AO. mhh what else.. i'd like perk like S&D w/o 40% check. i'd like survivibility (cocon, heals, evades), i'd like AR melee have. i'd like inate root/snare resistance like melee have. you can post craploads of things you wanted to have, but don't. and this will always be view from you own point. same as mine is from my own point of view

Edit: most ranged don't have alpha at all if you stop and look there's not only sols/agents/fixers.

[Lukesays]

Ranged profs that use fa:
Sol: normal part of toolset
Agent: ganking w/ absolute concentration. if this is a problem, it is an agent problem, not a ranged one.
Fixer: new le addition, nerf fixers
Adv: the rare ranged advs use this, OMG ranged is so powerful why are advs all melee?!?
Engi/crat/doc/mp/trader: lol bigburger?

Ranged profs that use burst:
See above, but add agents to the "don't use" list and change fixer description to "have had burst forever".

Stop using fa+as+burst+fling in ranged vs. melee comparisons. Melee profs put on as guns anyway, ranged people swapping to use dimach+sa is pretty rare (nerf agents).

If you want to complain, go on about the sync bugs because I don't think anyone will disagree with that.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Is it pathetic to want to be at least viably balanced just like the other melee professions after our defense was also ripped a new one from nerfs?

So are you saying you Keepers are least viable from all melee proffesions? This priceless. I tell you what - if you want to be balanced , go ask for a nerf. Unless you want some Shade , MA or Enforcer go thru your superior defensive toolset and compare it to theirs.

Our alphas take a long time to land because they are all perks. *WOW*

Are they? So why i see Keepers running with Supernova? Why are Keepers even using typed swords? Just for the fun and giggles i bet. Really HOW NERFED you are.

What's the point of being melee when most ranged profs have CC abilities, 2 specials that can do 13k & 15k PvP dmg with low recharge

Most ranged? There is only one proffesion matching your descprition.

Stop throwing everyone in one bag.

[Pafpuf]

if you look at your post from other side why agents use SA/dimach (melle attacks) ?

See this is where the "imbalance" draws the line, melee specials get much more deadly when used by a ranged prof. Go figure...

[SSK]

this thread will need visuals soon melee AS users >> SA/dimach ranged users

[IHaveHugeNick]

Lol

[Tinypain]

FA recharge for fixers is faster than most perks recharge. And your point about melee using more specials than ranged is quite funny when you see agents using AS/FA/SA/Dimach... Also, only 2 profs can use BS and dimach (on the dmg part) is nerfed for 2 melee classes.

OFC you can compare all ranged vs all melee. What's the point of being melee when most ranged profs have CC abilities, 2 specials that can do 13k & 15k PvP dmg with low recharge, range, ... Do melee profs have tools to counter that? No. Do they have the same damage output coming from specials? No. Can they alpha their target from 30m away or kite them? No.

Is there anything melee specific that you would like to have? No...

qft

--Steve

[NoGoal]

if you look at your post from other side why agents use SA/dimach (melle attacks) ? looks like there's something ranged want from melee.

They don't want it, they have it already... agts use SA like we use AS and dimach does not rely on a weapon or AR.

i'd like perk like S&D w/o 40% check.

SnD has a 40% check. It's 4 hits. It's affected by reflects/absorbs. I'd prefer to have SnD do a 40% capped hit everytime with 11 sec recharge.

i'd like survivibility (cocon, heals, evades), i'd like AR melee have. i'd like inate root/snare resistance like melee have.

That's not melee related. Sol/Fix have over 3k AR. SD, BioS, heals, evades aren't melee things.

Edit: most ranged don't have alpha at all if you stop and look there's not only sols/agents/fixers.

Maybe because you listed all the ranged profs?

[SSK]

Maybe because you listed all the ranged profs?

so there's 7 profs in AO
4 melee: keeps / enfs / shades / MAs
3 ranged: sols / agents / fixers
ok 8th advs for both categories (but wonder why all go melee if it sucks so much)
looks like you are missing half of other not so elitist profs

[Biggysmallz]

Man, Im sooo waiting to get my hands on FA/SA/dimach

[Ktaul38]

so there's 7 profs in AO
4 melee: keeps / enfs / shades / MAs
3 ranged: sols / agents / fixers
ok 8th advs for both categories (but wonder why all go melee if it sucks so much)
looks like you are missing half of other not so elitist profs

add Trader to Ranged (but they seldom have Burst, FA, or AS on a shotgun)
add Doctor (No Specific Weapon Toolset) rely on Nano Toolset
Pet Classes Engineer(Semi-ranged class) pet pathing makes bot unreliable for pvp
MP *giggle* unreliable bots, nano toolset, and hope for a good bow (semi-ranged if pvp)
Crat see MP substitute Pistols for Bow
oh and
NT Nano Toolset, no weapon at all if cyberdeck equip

Note: This is NOT intended to poor gas on the flames but setting aside Doc and NT you still have 4 Melee, 4 dedicated Ranged, and 4 who will go ranged in PvP more often than not (edit: not sure if last can be applied to advy)

[lusthorne]

So are you saying you Keepers are least viable from all melee proffesions? This priceless. I tell you what - if you want to be balanced , go ask for a nerf. Unless you want some Shade , MA or Enforcer go thru your superior defensive toolset and compare it to theirs.

Are they? So why i see Keepers running with Supernova? Why are Keepers even using typed swords? Just for the fun and giggles i bet. Really HOW NERFED you are.

Most ranged? There is only one proffesion matching your descprition.

Stop throwing everyone in one bag.

Here, have a clue:

Supernova: Aimed shot with a 1 minute recharge that requires funky usage of ip in ways not intended for a _MELEE PROF_, the only reason people do it at all (and it isn't only keepers, just for some reason keepers get all the attention in regards to it) is because it's the only bloody guaranteed hit likely 40% cap we can bloody get.

Our superior defensive toolset? Cocoon can be oneshotted, devotional armor is uselessly cappable through despite the extra 32% reflect, wow, how superior. Give me a bloody break. At best we are able to buy a little extra time with the 2 extra heal perks we have as opposed to what an enforcer has.

Look at *every* ranged pvper and I guarantee 9 out of 10 have something with aimed shot or full auto. This is not a one profession statement. Open your eyes. It is practically a requirement if you want to do anything resembling well in a pvp environment. I'll even spell it out for you to save you from having to do any *gasp* research

Agent: Rifle (Aimed shot, Fling optional)
MP: Tigress (Aimed Shot, Fling Shot)
Soldier: Shark (Burst, Full Auto)
Fixer: Ofab/Onehander common multiwield (Full Auto, Fling, Burst, Aimed Shot)
Trader: Ofab (Aimed Shot, Fling Shot)

Are we seeing a pattern yet here buddy? Oh and look, that's FIVE professions right there for starters, *WOW*

And you know what those typed swords have?

Fast Attack, Brawl, Dimach

Z-O-M-G we're really ROCKING now, 2 normal specials and for a keeper a dimach (with a 1hour recharge at that) that doesn't even do damage. A-BLOODY-MAZING.

And this is applicable to anyone using 2he/2hb so it is _NOT KEEPER SPECIFIC_ with the exception that other professions might have a damage dealing dimach with a *gasp* 30 minute recharge, zomgz how overpowered!

Furthermore, HAD YOU ACTUALLY BLOODY READ MY POSTS you might have seen that I am in fact _NOT_ saying _AT ALL_ that _KEEPER_ is the _LEAST VIABLE_ melee profession. That is what _YOU WANT TO SEE_ because you see the word keeper and bloody interpret how you want because it is easier for you to give a smart aleck childish response to attempt to dismiss any kind of valid point.

Try reading my plain words, I have SPECIFICALLY stated several times that I am also bringing up problems with melee in general, and in many examples have pointed out specific differences between melee classes. Yes I present some examples from a keepers point of view, and at no point have I _EVER_ said that keeper is the nerfest prof.

And despite whatever skewed point of view you may have, keeper also does not automatically win any fight vs other melee profs.

[knekt]

Why didnt I just equip a Ofab Silverback Mk 6 on my keep before it got Trader tag:/

Edit: and yeh I`m getting tired of getting wtf powned at BS, FIX

[acodin]

Most of you are complaing about unbalance wich surely exists but i doubt what it is causing any huge disproprtions in pvp. Ive seen at least several ppl from various classes with hight pvp titles - it all player dependable, using weapons wich werent intended to a certain prof. I see many of meele are not happy with useing ranged weaps in pvp due to its specials, saying that its a huge ip sink etc - guys its pretty obvious to me that going straight pvp will demand some scrifices in other aspects of your toons. And for the last matter is that where is no real reason in bringing onehander as an example for fix/eng etc As wepon, besides of using big ip ammounts (in fact is quite as much as meele have to spend - AS + weapon skill) to get any results of it, it does ubery crappy dmg (both AS and regular when compared to other FA guns).

[Spart]

*EVERY* ranged pvper has *AT LEAST* aimed shot as a special.

I'd like to point out something here. Not every ranged pvper is using AS in pvp, most soldiers dropped the ec3 after the mod shark/40% cap changes came in, mostly cause we can use what we were meant to use in PvP without it being crappy, like it was with the SPB.

You are complaining that you can get capped through 75% reflects? Soldiers can get capped through 80% why do you cry about it when soldiers have the same problem as you do when getting attacked by ranged. When our targets get out of range while we are either rooted or snared, we are in the same position as you.

I gladly trade my defence/healperks for AMS for a week, just

eh, fine with me, enjoying getting hit by 40% once a trader takes away your AMS and NT/(sold, agent, fix, trader) kill yours reflects for a nice 40% hit with their nukes


Now you gotta understand, I'm wanting you guys to get some kind of defense so everyone stops bitching about it. Its getting too outta control

[Rktim]

So lets say Melee proffesions now suck in PvP totaly period...
Ok before continuning i would like all of you to do a list all proffesions and Mark A - Can kill or B - Cant kill as (Remember that its more about who that has the upper hand then if its physicaly possible or not..):

Example for soldier: (Not in any way set in stone and i KNOW you wount agree whith the exact list.. its only a example and no i wount be defending it)

Soldier - N/A
Keeper - A
Doctor - B
Adventurer - B
Crat - A
Fixer - A
Engineer - B
NT - B
Agent - B (----> A <---)
Trader - A
Enforcer - A
Martial Artist . A
Shade - A
MP - B (*Hides from flames*..) (---> A <----)
End ratio: A=7 - B=6 / ( A= 9 - B=4)

Now i just KNOW that there will be a NT or Agent or something here soon explaining how stupid i am for puting a B after there class... After that they will proudly show a list where they have soldiers marked whith a B!!! but eh.. Or rather do a qoute.. change the letters and type "fixed" under.. <.< Its obius.. it realy is.. But hey its based on what i know from my own and outhers experince..

However in the end it seems that soldiers are pritty balanced but slightly on top.. Hopefully all the new stuff in 17.3 will help balance us out that list bit and get us to more or less a solid 7/6 raitio rather then a 7/6-9/4 ratio (then again where a combat proffesion.. its my personal opinion that we shuld have 1 or 2 more A´s just like the outher combat proffesions while suport proffesion rather shuld be aimd at making the killing easier for the combat proffesions.. thats atleast what FC says and i happen to agree becuse it makes sense.. ofcorse if your a God hunting title horny trader/crat you will obiusly disagree but.. im not going to argue whit you about it...)

Anyway do this and i bet that you will moast likley get a simmilar result depending on your proffesion.. And for the sake of everything it would be cool if you would only comment on what someone from YOUR OWN proffesion lists and not outhers..
I got a slight fealing that you will be supriced..
And on top of that it culd help you give FC some real constructive feedback then just random whines...

(Now for the part that actuly mathers YAY =D)

You see the main problem today is that EVERYONE including myself are ower exagirating how long PvP lasts... or short rather... we all like to claim it only lasts for 1-3sec.. While in reality it takes moast people atleast 11sec to kill someone whith afew exeptions...

ATM all kinds off mass PvP is abunch of people feeding the meet grinder whith almost no exeptions... No one is even thinking about working tacticaly, putting togheter a solid PvP team, figuring out where you shuld stand, how to comunicate etc etc... And untill we all learn how to PvP in teams whith solid comunication whith outher teams using solid tactics PvP will be broken and we will all die fast and suck in PvP its just as simple as that... It dosent mahter if your a soldier or a MA or a fixer.. If you run in to the wrong group of people your screwed...

You cant charge in to the middle of a group of people and expect to get out alive anymore no mather who you are (all to some keepers still claim to be able to O.o` and i guess a soldier can IF thers no Trader/NT/Engi there just as the keeper can if thers no Soldier/Fixer/Agent there)

Ofcorse meele proffesions seem screwed as long as you keep running in to the middle of a meetgrinder... Heck i know my hand would be compleatly messed up if i showed it in one...
Diffrence is that ranged people got the option to not realy be in it but rather run around on the edge.. All tho thers ofcorse alot of trox minded ranged people (like myself) running in the the middle getting OMGWTFPWND in 0.1sec (What can i say.. i find it manly and fun... Yes i AM twisted...)

Now i wish i culd tell you HOW you SHULD PvP whith multiple co-ordinated solid teams alowing everyone to serve a important part in PvP (even suport proffesions...) BUT.. I cant... Why? Becuse i dont freaking know.. IT will take more and probebly brighter brains then mine alone to figure that out... Heck it might not even be possible...

What will i do now? Moast likley leave you be and pop by once a day or so to check on how your doing.. im pritty much done whith PvP myself... and espeicaly theses forums... the non stop whining.. the trolls... the flames... *shrugs*
Moast of you (yes moast but not all) need to grow up abit and realise that.. "Whell i suck now.. but everyone else suck just as much but in a diffrent way.. Thereby i dont suck".. We all know thats its alot easier to whine then to accept that your just fine or MABY just MABY that its you thats gimped or using a flawed combat tactic... And btw this isent aimd at anyone or any proffesions in paricular.. But rather at anyone.. moast probebly the once that feal hit by it...

I did... Moastly a mix tho.. Bouth that soldiers are actuly fine and that i simply am abit gimped..

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R.K. Tim