Review: Melle professions

[Racatti]

NR keeper is not even an option.

Dead ranged excluding Soldiers (AMS), Fixers (can't perk) and Agents (FP doc with HP setup or FP soldier). What are the other ranged profs again? Even if you count engies (cocoon, special blockers), docs (heals), advs (cocoon, heals, evades), traders (drains, heals, reflects), ... Funny how you said stun when keepers have no reliable stun.

Beati monoculi in terra caecorum. If you feel like a god it might be that others suck.

Wait till TMS down, wait for limber and MR perk thru it, same with agent, there are ways to counter any kinda defense. I see plenty of keepers excell on BS. Not surpriginly, they don't cry on forums. Also unreliable stun > no stun.

[Kyai]

actualy whole tir arena gets stunned during enf fight, dunno how much of ingame meters it is tho

Avalanche is 7m and Bring the Pain is 10m, neither or which are enough to cover a huge area really.

[NoGoal]

Wait till TMS down

1min30 = 8 AS or 8 FA or 8 AS and 8 FA if soldier hotswap. No keeper can tank that. Soldier will run a bit before AMS is down then and don't tell me that I should use root graft ...

wait for limber and MR perk thru it

Keepers don't have MR, it's a breed perk.

I see plenty of keepers excell on BS.

Plenty? :P

Not surpriginly, they don't cry on forums.

They do.

Also unreliable stun > no stun.

And so what? That wasn't the point.

[Xaun]

so what about the professions that relys on roots and snares to kill ppl?

If they have to rely on roots and snares to kill people there is a problem.. I as a keeper run slower than most all ranged users.. must get close to them to kill them.. am rooted and dead before I get close enough now that most people I encounter have more than one potentially capping special and can eat through cocoon as if it weren't even there. Cocoon meant having a chance in hell of closing a gap.. but typically all I see while standing on my target is "Target is not in range..." "No LOS of target" etc.. add naseum..

PS.. I haven't actually talked to a single keeper that is happy with pvp on their character and by happy I don't mean.. Tanking 6 well setup, well equipped people.. No I mean as in.. "I can't remember the last time I killed someone" and we are talking about well setup keepers..

Chances are if you see a keeper that is "excelling" in titles there is a reason.. killing greys and greens is not really what I call.. a good time or a worthy kill.. if you can't kill a green in what ever profession you are.. perhaps.. there.. is a problem..

[Rktim]

PS.. I haven't actually talked to a single keeper that is happy with pvp on their character and by happy I don't mean.. Tanking 6 well setup, well equipped people.. No I mean as in.. "I can't remember the last time I killed someone" and we are talking about well setup keepers..

Wierd.. it only took me afew min to find 2 of them on your forums.. Maby you shuld start by looking there?

As for moast keepers not beeing happy... You have goten a huge nerf.. But i bet moast keepers aint sader in BS then moast soldiers... Or anyone else for that mather exept 1-2 people from each proffesion thats just pwning EVERYONE else... not just keepers..

Remember soldiers can have it just as bad as keepers even if keepers cant kill soldiers.. thers more proffesions then 2...

TBH EVERYONE are misserable exept agents.. I dare you to find ONE proffesion where moast people consider themselfes "happy" in PvP.

so far the following i KNOW thinks it sucks..

Soldier
Keeper
Trader
MP
Advy (they dont dare whine in and out about it tho but it dosent take much to read betwen the lines)
Enfo
Shade
Fixer (OMG yes even fixers HATE pvp and thinks it sucks..)
MA

and thats over half of the proffesions already.. So dont for one sec think that keepers and all Melee proffesions have it "REALY BAD" cuse no one else has it any better even if you think outherwise... NO Not even keepers are happy whith over all PvP but your still better off then alot of outher proffesions...


Every single thread about PvP latley has just been people saying "No YOU dont suck I suck!" And then people try to prove why they suck and why the outhers dont... Its just sick and twisted... Yes Melee has a slight disadvantage in base but FFS that dosent meen ranged have it good >.<

And on top of that unlike keepers and soldiers and advys and engis and just about everyone else there is 2 or 3 proffesions that actuly suck compaired to everyone else and need a boost that actuly have a right to whine unlike MOAST people in this thread that just dont understand that PvP sucks for everyone and just them even if there own logic tells them something else...

[Kinkstaah]

The only alternative to "chase like a moron" is what? Wait for the ranged toons to come for a hug? Or just stand around by the teleporter and zone when u get attacked? The problem exists that melee toons have to close that distance one way or another to actually hit anyone. Any ranged toon that closes that gap into melee range themself would have to be an idiot.

Simply don't fight them. Back off. Retreat. Dont get into situations where you know you're going to get owned. Its still gonna happen sometimes but you can minimize it.

You should not have to constantly hug a teleporter, BY or the likes to do well.

Why not? You are a melee class. A ranged class from 40m SHOULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGE DUE TO BEING AT RANGE i.e, the fight should almost always be in their favour. If you run into them at 5m away, the fight should go more in the favour of the melee user.

Don't chase like a moron? Then what? To kill any classic kiter, you'd have to gank him as he comes out the teleporter?

Why not? Or at least dont give him the chance to kill you. If you back off through a teleporter you'll see if he is stupid enough to follow and walk right into your range, if he has a brain he wont follow you (unless he thinks he can take you) and guess what - You're still alive.

Titles don't mean much really, and is hardly relevant. I've met some incredible tough ones with high titles, and some incredible cowardly damage farming hores, that don't even finish their kills.

I mentioned this to not mention names. But I was referring to guys like Corupted, Evolkeep, Hameleon, Forz, etc.

If they have to rely on roots and snares to kill people there is a problem.. I as a keeper run slower than most all ranged users.. must get close to them to kill them.. am rooted and dead before I get close enough now that most people I encounter have more than one potentially capping special and can eat through cocoon as if it weren't even there. Cocoon meant having a chance in hell of closing a gap.. but typically all I see while standing on my target is "Target is not in range..." "No LOS of target" etc.. add naseum..

PS.. I haven't actually talked to a single keeper that is happy with pvp on their character and by happy I don't mean.. Tanking 6 well setup, well equipped people.. No I mean as in.. "I can't remember the last time I killed someone" and we are talking about well setup keepers..

Chances are if you see a keeper that is "excelling" in titles there is a reason.. killing greys and greens is not really what I call.. a good time or a worthy kill.. if you can't kill a green in what ever profession you are.. perhaps.. there.. is a problem..

This is my case in point here. There are certain issues with melee, granted, but its also a L2P issue as well.

There were no real nasty NT's, MP, Trader, Crat pre-LE - Those WERE classes with actual crippling issues in PVP - It was impossible to perform at top level, but I still see melee kicking ass when played by a skilled player who knows what to get into and what not to get into. Im not saying melee couldnt use some love (god knows I want to play my soli enf) but there are people out there that are doing well.

Why?

[Pafpuf]

Simply don't fight them. Back off. Retreat.

Loul is spartan.

[Spart]

Loul is spartan.

? what do you mean by that?

[Kinkstaah]

Loul is spartan.

Even the spartans didnt blindly charge a massively outnumbering force, they stayed in their little hill where they could fight at greatest advantage to them

[Biggysmallz]

There was a hint on AO billboards real cool advert some time ago.

[Loucretia]

Simply don't fight them. Back off. Retreat. Dont get into situations where you know you're going to get owned. Its still gonna happen sometimes but you can minimize it.



Why not? You are a melee class. A ranged class from 40m SHOULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGE DUE TO BEING AT RANGE i.e, the fight should almost always be in their favour. If you run into them at 5m away, the fight should go more in the favour of the melee user.



Why not? Or at least dont give him the chance to kill you. If you back off through a teleporter you'll see if he is stupid enough to follow and walk right into your range, if he has a brain he wont follow you (unless he thinks he can take you) and guess what - You're still alive.

I mentioned this to not mention names. But I was referring to guys like Corupted, Evolkeep, Hameleon, Forz, etc.

[/size]

This is my case in point here. There are certain issues with melee, granted, but its also a L2P issue as well.

There were no real nasty NT's, MP, Trader, Crat pre-LE - Those WERE classes with actual crippling issues in PVP - It was impossible to perform at top level, but I still see melee kicking ass when played by a skilled player who knows what to get into and what not to get into. Im not saying melee couldnt use some love (god knows I want to play my soli enf) but there are people out there that are doing well.

Why?

What you say makes sense from a functional point of view of course. But from a gameplay point of view, all you do is illustrate the problems of melee V ranged.

People shouldnt have to go to the BS to stand around and wait for some idiot to mess up. Yes at 40m ranged have the advantage. But your always at 40m before your closer.....

Fact is ranged can nearly always beat melee unless they are stupid or unlucky now. That wasnt always the case. Melee used to have a better chance of closing that gap and actually making a fight of it.

And yes there are some very good players in all profs. The difference is really crap players can beat really good players now depending on prof/range etc.

and @pufpuf stfu i dont know spartanx from adam.

[Phargus]

The difference is really crap players can beat really good players now depending on prof/range etc.

That's hardly news. In fact it's been that way for as long as I've been playing. And when you get right down to it ranged profs have always had a big advantage in mass pvp.

The shift in relative balance in the game obviously upsets the professions that are moving down, but it would be nice if people could keep at least a little bit of perspective...

[Kinkstaah]

Fact is ranged can nearly always beat melee WHEN A FIGHT IS STARTED AT 40M RANGE unless they are stupid or unlucky now.

Its not that illogical. However, WoW tackled this issue rather well with melee class abilities, however it is also very well balanced by ranged having abilities to keep a melee user out of melee range.

Thus... the same tends to hold true in any game, even one with "balance"

[sidethrust]

Its not that illogical. However, WoW tackled this issue rather well with melee class abilities, however it is also very well balanced by ranged having abilities to keep a melee user out of melee range.

Thus... the same tends to hold true in any game, even one with "balance"

Then it would also make sense to give melee a way to prevent ranged from attacking at close range.

[Contra]

FA recharge for fixers is faster than most perks recharge. And your point about melee using more specials than ranged is quite funny when you see agents using AS/FA/SA/Dimach... Also, only 2 profs can use BS and dimach (on the dmg part) is nerfed for 2 melee classes.

Agents use FA/SA/Dimach at the sacrifice of evades and pvm dmg m8. Plus! Not every agent is running around with them and not every agent uses them in a efficient way. Atm there are like 4 agents on rk2 that use those combos and most of them aren't very efficient.

[Lunaspell]

If they have to rely on roots and snares to kill people there is a problem.. I as a keeper run slower than most all ranged users.. must get close to them to kill them..

so what to do about that?... instead of crying nerf to other professions toolsets why not use them to you advantage, running around with a crat or trader might be very useful to you, just as docs are very useful to me (if they care heal me).

This isn't a single player game you know, and 1on1 PvP was never intended to be balanced

[Neon_1]

Well, this thread starts to allways point to certain professions. If im keeper i cant kill xxx proff because.......If im soldier i cant kill xxx proffs because.....And second notice is that all say that all other proffs but themselves are more uber and got more love while their own profession is completely nerfed. Like said earlier here, most professions are mostly whining about pvp problems. Every profession has nemesis proffs, some have more than others. PVP is never going to be fully balanced here, especially not 1vs1. You will have easier proffs and harder proffs to kill, choose your fights, use teamwork. If i see a fixer and soldier and shout "Geronimoooooo!!" and charge....only ending up eating dirt after 3-4 seconds, should i shout that fixers and soldiers should be nerfed to oblivion ?

Alpha Online has made ppl get killed more easier, and seems that some people have hard time to understand that they cant tank 5+ people at same time anymore(well maybe except advs.. . And some people are trying to nerf NT:s or Traders since they are "overpowered" now. All see that others are uber and that our profession is totally gimped. The discussion allways trails to this, and many have difficulties to see things from other proffs point of view before starting to flame.

Ranged have advantage over melee. They should have it. Most whines that come from melee players is still regarded to a fact that "Target is not in the range..." messages that makes you not even get 1 hit in before dying. That problem has nothing to do with game mechanics or profession balance, but in BS it cripples melee professions very much. That should be the main concern here. And since people seem to say there is no happy keepers anymore or that keepers are lowest proff in pvp nowadays......well, better not even start to talk about that subject. And this talking about Proff A cant pwn Proff B, C, D anymore with q/afk/moon, well better learn new tactics and if you see you are shorthanded or have difficult proff to fight against, you can allways escape. BS is teamwork. Soloing usually leads only to loss fights.

Ranged proffs have edge over melee atm because of the FC synch problems, and eternal lagggg. That doesnt mean that all ranged proffs are uber in every single way compared to melee. And when you die to a stun 1 time once in a while doesnt mean that every melee profession has 10 differend stuns and perks to just alpha every proff in 4 seconds. And this useful claim that all people use AS (well, most do..) and thats why i cant tank those 5+ people anymore or kill 3 ppl while watching tv, well better wake up. ALL ppl die to 5+ ppl AS:ing you. That has nothing to do with professions or pvp balance at all (well yeah, if they are agents you are allmost surely dead compared if those 5 ppl are docs of course..). And in my own experiences from BS, only agents will cap me allmost 100% on AS. Sure, other proffs cap sometimes too, but not that consistenly. Sure, sometimes feels funny to be instakilled by few docs even with lucky shots, but saying that AS will allways cap 40% from all people is not even near the truth.

AS/Triple/SA/FA/burst and so on have made the playfield become more of an alpha online than enjoyfull pvp. And those specials seem to be problem of many whines here too. Re-adjusting those tough is completely differend subject, and should be made its own thread maybe.

[Gamespace]

Well, this thread starts to allways point to certain professions. If im keeper i cant kill xxx proff because.......If im soldier i cant kill xxx proffs because.....And second notice is that all say that all other proffs but themselves are more uber and got more love while their own profession is completely nerfed. Like said earlier here, most professions are mostly whining about pvp problems. Alpha Online has made ppl get killed more easier, and seems that some people have hard time to understand that they cant tank 5+ people at same time anymore(well maybe except advs.. . And some people are trying to nerf NT:s or Traders since they are "overpowered" now. All see that others are uber and that our profession is totally gimped. The discussion allways trails to this, and many have difficulties to see things from other proffs point of view before starting to flame.

Ranged have advantage over melee. They should have it. Most whines that come from melee players is still regarded to a fact that "Target is not in the range..." messages that makes you not even get 1 hit in before dying. That problem has nothing to do with game mechanics or profession balance, but in BS it cripples melee professions very much. That should be the main concern here. And since people seem to say there is no happy keepers anymore or that keepers are lowest proff in pvp nowadays......well, better not even start to talk about that subject. And this talking about Proff A cant pwn Proff B, C, D anymore with q/afk/moon, well better learn new tactics and if you see you are shorthanded or have difficult proff to fight against, you can allways escape. BS is teamwork. Soloing usually leads only to loss fights.

Ranged proffs have edge over melee atm because of the FC synch problems, and eternal lagggg. That doesnt mean that all ranged proffs are uber in every single way compared to melee. And when you die to a stun 1 time once in a while doesnt mean that every melee profession has 10 differend stuns and perks to just alpha every proff in 4 seconds. And this useful claim that all people use AS (well, most do..) and thats why i cant tank those 5+ people anymore or kill 3 ppl while watching tv, well better wake up. ALL ppl die to 5+ ppl AS:ing you. That has nothing to do with professions or pvp balance at all (well yeah, if they are agents you are allmost surely dead compared if those 5 ppl are docs of course..).

AS/Triple/SA/FA/burst and so on have made the playfield become more of an alpha online than enjoyfull pvp. And those specials seem to be problem of many whines here too. Re-adjusting those tough is completely differend subject, and should be made its own thread maybe.

More like when people without a clue about pvp in AO play with shields and pvp cap and add nukes who ignore reflects, imo at least.

[Neon_1]

More like when people without a clue about pvp in AO play with shields and pvp cap and add nukes who ignore reflects, imo at least.

True. Said it in wrong way. =)

[Izolenta]

Simply don't fight them. Back off. Retreat. Dont get into situations where you know you're going to get owned. Its still gonna happen sometimes but you can minimize it.

The only way for melee to listen to your advice is not to go to BS.

Theres more chance that melee gets owned by Agent/Soldier/NT/Ranged adv than vice versa.

You're saying "go with zerg". Anyway melee class has to get CLOSE and it makes us first target on tab. So the only option remaining for melee is to get ranged weapon with AS. So clear.