Tara Loot system

[Tza]

No system will be 100% fair, its impossible.
No system will please all, can't happen.
No system have caused as much complaining as the Loot that Tara drops.

You can catch info on these two pages:
www.tara.fun.ms
www.project-starlight.com/taratimer.php

I've started this thread to get ppl to talk prior to the Tara meetings being held, so nobody feels its being rushed, and nobody's feeling they've not had a chance to say their piece.

State the system you preferr - explain why, come up with your own. But make sure you argument instead of just flaming and spamming.

Perhaps next Tara meeting will be more pleasant, more constructive than what I've seen the one I went to.

And if you chose to post, don't be anonomous

______________________
Littletza, President of Shadow Ops
193 soldier
RK2

[Tza]

I'll see if the rules page can't get up and running again as soon as possible

_____________________
Littletza, President of Shadow Ops
193 soldier
RK2

[Tza]

Here is what I think is the best system:

all are welcome.
*You start by getting points when you can start rolling for items =

*start bidding on items from lvl 100.

*You can bid on items wich you meet the level requirements for (ie. Dragon coat lvl 100+).

*The more you go, the bigger the chance of getting loot, but as a first timer, you should also have a chance of getting loot as everybody chips in. This will work as follows:
1-5 raids - 1 roll point
6-10 raids - 2 roll points
11-15 raids - 3 roll points
15-20 raids - 4 roll points
etc.

When dragon is slain and its time for roll for loot, everybody wanting to take part in the looting bids the number of roll points they wish. The total is then added up and rolled for with Helpbot.

Example: Gaily Painted Hood is up for roll. 3 people bid on it, Kollie, Whitesand and Kazax.
Kollie has 3 roll points
Whitesand has 11 roll points
Kazax has 4 roll points.
The numbers are added up (3+11+4 = 18) and the number 1-18 is rolled with helpbot.
The numbers are places as follows:
1-3 - Kollie
4-14 - Whitesand
15-18 - Kazax
Helpbot comes up with the number 2 wich is one of Kollies numbers. So kollie wins and looses the roll points he has bid, the rest keeps their points.

*You don't have to bid all your roll points, but can do so if you like to up your chances.

*If you win, you cannot bid more this raid and the next one as well.

*If you loose, you can freely roll as you like on the rest of the items this raid or future ones.

The benefits of this system is as follows:

Everybody gets a shot at the loot, but still benefits those who go more (ie. they get more roll points). This will prevent the hoarding of points for a total buy-out and that way scaring ppl off from bidding or even going at all.

Everybody *should* be rewarded by going as they all chip in. To quote Grontha at last friday's meeting:

"It was the little guys below level 150 who saved the day - on several occations"

If people are good enough to go bleed for you, then they should be rewarded as such, hence the open system with rolling instead of a system where you bid wich will end up being closed.

______________________
Littletza, President of Shadow Ops
193 soldier
RK2

[_______________Hypos]

My suggestion is a step back from this. I think we first need to set the system that defines the loot rules. Currently, people are yelling at Astriell to get rule changes they want. That's just not fair to her. Astriell, if you read this, don't change the loot rules on your own - that just confirms that people should yell at you to get changes made. Then you'll get nothing but a constant string of hate tells. It also strips the rules from having the authority of a voting group behind them.

As tza said, no system will ever please everybody. Pleasing everybody is not even a valid goal.

My suggestion is this. Have meetings to update the loot rules on a regular basis. Every 2 weeks maybe or monthly. Then just live with whatever rule set gets voted on until the next scheduled meeting. No changing the rules between meetings, no changing the date of the next meeting. If anyone complains about the rules, tell them their only recourse is to attend the next meeting. This will take the burden of defining the rules completely off of one person and will ensure that the rules have the authority of the group backing them.

The main goal here is to reduce the bickering. This is supposed to be fun after all.

I do want to take this opportunity to point out that we have one great thing going for use. A core group of people that respect the idea of having rules and the importance of following them. We should be thankful for that.

[______________Coc^-^]

The system that Tza have presented and we currently use is the most fair system we can get.
If all the greedy people can stop complaining we could actually have fun when Tara spawns.

[Evilboy]

Here is a thought i want to get across !

First and foremost in any "Game" there is some sort of Progress that you have as a goal, i like to call this 'Growing"

When we all have the same goal "IE. Taraloot" there is a conflict of interest, and it breeds Greed, alot of people EXPEXCT that they are ENTITLED to the Loot tara Drops, hence they complain if it is not to thier favor, the systems that so many people have created to work fairly for all players in deciding where this particular loot shall go, has become more of an issue than simply doing the Raid and having fun, yes i would love to have all the loot tara drops, but it has gotten to the point of Ridicule and bad blood between otherwise great friendships, and i personally like my friends alot more than i need tara loot, so iw ill continue to participate in tara raids and have fun to the best of my ability, ALOT of people have gone on tara raids since tara was placed in the game, and this issue was never as inflamitory as it is now, since "FUCOM" has made the Zone PVP it is a greater issue now of coordinating the raid successfully, getting the NODROP loot a home, and getting out to have a second dungeon to raid, i beseech us ALL to have faith in the system we create and to use that system as it is intended to be used, i am sorry that not everyone can have loot from the dragon, since the raiding has begun, and the loot system has been implemented there has been nothing but resistance in the form, " But i did not get anything" well i could do tara raids till i am blue in the face, but i wont once care if i get loot, i will just have good times and good frinds to talk about past hunts with, and clanner enemies mounting for killing them on the raid. lets make a system and stay with it,

LET THE GREED GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Astriell]

is that noone else has been willing to do anything except sit on their backsides criticizing, ridiculing and complaining. It saddens me and sickens me that people are so focused on increasing their chances at getting loot that they are willing to treat other human beings, albeit under the cover of a game character, in such horrible ways. The funny part is that people want to have a meeting every week or every other week to "change the system." To me, that says "ok i didn't get my way this week, so let's force a meeting next week so we can get the system changed to benefit me more than anyone else." That's ridiculous! I happen to agree with Cocio that the system in place is the most fair system to everyone involved from the infrequent raid participant to the die-hard never-misses-a-raid veteran. So, once you establish a system that does that, you work to modify that system to get the numbers to fit appropriately. Personally, I think the system, as is, doesn't give enough of an incentive to keep coming back for more raids/raid points/roll points. It also gives lucky rollers a chance at winning something every single raid and, for those of us who have horrible luck at rolling, that sucks! All I was trying to do Sunday is try to appease the myriad of people who have sent me tells since the system change telling me how mad they are that they got screwed because of the system change WITHOUT changing the system and without hurting the people who aren't complaining because of the new system. I believe I have come up with a solution, it's the same one i tried to implement sunday after talking to a large number of participants and getting 0 negative reaction initially. There are two main problems with the system as I see it now:

1) People with insane luck in rolls have an opportunity to roll every single raid, even after they've just won something.

Simple fix, you need a minimum of 2 raid points to roll for any item. Since you lose all your points when you win anyway, you would have to earn two points (two raids) before you could roll for an item again. This would also force people to be selective in what they roll for and only roll for items they really want and not just roll so they can have more loot. If you're shooting for a padded coat, the last thing you want to do is win a piece of dragon marrow and watch a coat drop the next raid that you can't roll for. It would cause people to prioritize loot and not just roll haphazardly.

2) For those who regularly attend raids, one extra roll for every 5 raids they attend, just isn't all that much of an incentive to keep coming back. If you have lousy luck at rolling, 2 numbers ina 20 number roll isn't all that significant. My solution is to scale the extra numbers a bit differently. Currently, my idea is this:

2-5 raids = 1 number in the roll (assuming idea 1 is also in effect, you would have to have 2 raids to get your first number in the roll)
6-10 raids = 2 numbers in the roll
11-15 raids = 4 numbers in the roll
16-20 raids = 7 numbers in the roll
21-25 raids = 10 numbers in the roll
and so on, each tier increasing the number of roll points by the difference between the last two tiers plus 1(tier 4 and 5 had a difference of 3, so in tier 6 (26-30 raids), you would get 10+3+1 (14) numbers in the roll). Since you lose all your points when you win anyway, it simply increases your chances of winning ONE item and then you start all over. It also still allows people a chance at winning something anytime past their 2nd raid (lower odds, but the original system was often a roll between 30 or more people so it's about the same odds as back then). To get the better chances at winning, you need to attend more raids. It also still benefits the infrequent participant because, as long as they don't win, they keep accumulating points that will give them more numbers to roll with on the times that they are able to attend.


Those are my only two proposed ideas. I think it would allow the current system to continue to be fair to almost everyone (doesn't mean people like it, just means it's the most fair thing for all people involved) without making upa whole new system and screwing an entirely new batch of people out of the things they have worked for. That's my two cents (or 50 cents).

Astriell

[______________Wahoo.]

Tara ..lol

The amount of people which want loot is insane. It seems for the amount of time people put into getting dragon loot they would be better off leveling. Really the loot does not drop the way it used to ..( Hidden nerf.. maybe)
This is why i backed off dragon.


Look at all the planning:

1. Loot system

2. Being at dragon room early enough to lag death anyone who dare's to come down.

3. Of course, some sit upstairs waiting to run down.

4. Killing dragon

5. Oh getting the loot and rolling ..OMG..50 peeps.. DOH
(someone is going to be mad)

6. Lets have a meeting cause i got screwed ..(Doh ..more time)

7. Tracking spawn time.

[Astriell]

that clanners suffered on RK2.. that's the real reason you guys aren't a realistic day to day threat at tara anymore. The opinion was (and I hope still is) that we want to try to encourage participation without the problems that caused clans to lose their stranglehold on the spawn. Perhaps we're overthinking it and working too hard at it, but if that's what we want to spend our time doing, why is that a waste? Fact is, if there were better things to do in AO right now, I'm sure we would be doing them. Alot of talk has been around about 14.5 and the new stuff that it will bring... maybe then there will be other things we can occupy ourselves with. Until then, we have to take what we can get. People are way too concerned with loot, it'd be nice if we could just focus on the fact that it takes an extreme amount of luck for clanners to even get a tara kill anymore, which is something I think we should be proud of. We have sparked alot of omni interest in tara and now we need to get a handle on it before we suffer the same fate that Quiz and the rest of the clanners suffered. It's by no means a perfect system nor is it easily settled among people in all different time zones and schedules. For all intents and purposes, pvp is dead, there are no wars, missions are REALLY old... so why not try to dominate the dragon spawn. A month ago if you had of told me Omni would be struggling with the problem of too many people interested in an omni-dominated dragon spawn, I would have laughed in your face. Now I see it as a fun challenge in a game that offers little else at the moment. And, believe me, it is DEFINITELY a challenge convincing every person you talk to that they aren't being screwed by whatever system is in place.

Your list isn't even appropriate littletotem.

1. Loot System .... anytime you're going after even semi-rare items with a decent sized group, you have to determine a fair way to give out the loot. No-brainer there.

2. Being at dragon room early enough to lag death anyone who dare's to come down. .... we get just as lagged as anyone who comes down and, referring to my earlier point of nothing else to do... why not go there and hang out instead of hanging out in a deserted 4holes, 2ho or mmd?

3. Of course, some sit upstairs waiting to run down ... some.. omnis? clanners? whocares? hehe

4. Killing dragon ...WOOHOOO the funnest part!!!

5. Oh getting the loot and rolling ..OMG..50 peeps.. DOH
(someone is going to be mad) ... I wasn't mad the day I won my hood.. But if #1 is settled, screw #5!!!

6. Lets have a meeting cause i got screwed ..(Doh ..more time) ... this is the only valid point you make... and many people agree... pick a system and go with it!!! if it needs a few modifications here or there, do that but a meeting every week is a bit excessive.

7. Tracking spawn time. ... well that's a simple matter... write down time tara died, add 18 hours, go do something else ;P Pred's tarabot even saves the step of putting pencil to paper and adding 18

Ast

[______________Wahoo.]

Originally posted by Astriell
that clanners suffered on RK2.. that's the real reason you guys aren't a realistic day to day threat at tara anymore. The opinion was (and I hope still is) that we want to try to encourage participation without the problems that caused clans to lose their stranglehold on the spawn. Perhaps we're overthinking it and working too hard at it, but if that's what we want to spend our time doing, why is that a waste? Fact is, if there were better things to do in AO right now, I'm sure we would be doing them. Alot of talk has been around about 14.5 and the new stuff that it will bring... maybe then there will be other things we can occupy ourselves with. Until then, we have to take what we can get. People are way too concerned with loot, it'd be nice if we could just focus on the fact that it takes an extreme amount of luck for clanners to even get a tara kill anymore, which is something I think we should be proud of. We have sparked alot of omni interest in tara and now we need to get a handle on it before we suffer the same fate that Quiz and the rest of the clanners suffered. It's by no means a perfect system nor is it easily settled among people in all different time zones and schedules. For all intents and purposes, pvp is dead, there are no wars, missions are REALLY old... so why not try to dominate the dragon spawn. A month ago if you had of told me Omni would be struggling with the problem of too many people interested in an omni-dominated dragon spawn, I would have laughed in your face. Now I see it as a fun challenge in a game that offers little else at the moment. And, believe me, it is DEFINITELY a challenge convincing every person you talk to that they aren't being screwed by whatever system is in place.

Your list isn't even appropriate littletotem.

1. Loot System .... anytime you're going after even semi-rare items with a decent sized group, you have to determine a fair way to give out the loot. No-brainer there.

2. Being at dragon room early enough to lag death anyone who dare's to come down. .... we get just as lagged as anyone who comes down and, referring to my earlier point of nothing else to do... why not go there and hang out instead of hanging out in a deserted 4holes, 2ho or mmd?

3. Of course, some sit upstairs waiting to run down ... some.. omnis? clanners? whocares? hehe

4. Killing dragon ...WOOHOOO the funnest part!!!

5. Oh getting the loot and rolling ..OMG..50 peeps.. DOH
(someone is going to be mad) ... I wasn't mad the day I won my hood.. But if #1 is settled, screw #5!!!

6. Lets have a meeting cause i got screwed ..(Doh ..more time) ... this is the only valid point you make... and many people agree... pick a system and go with it!!! if it needs a few modifications here or there, do that but a meeting every week is a bit excessive.

7. Tracking spawn time. ... well that's a simple matter... write down time tara died, add 18 hours, go do something else ;P Pred's tarabot even saves the step of putting pencil to paper and adding 18

Ast

Take it personal if you want. I don't mind.
Those where my reasons for not going to dragon You can read into them as deep as you like.

They where not aimmed at any person directly.
You do know , the lag is insane and pvp is impossible.. Hey we all know that.


Now, my point above was.. comparing the level of effort vs the ammount of loot. Funcom needs to up the ammount of loot to make it worth while. I guess your light was just to bright to see beyond the text. Dim it a little and try to control your emotions.

FYI: I don't have to ask you.. what is appropriate !!

[_______________Hypos]

Sunday the raid was pretty much run by Wutto and Deng. At least that's what I gathered from the chat. Since there was no pre-arranged system, loot was handled by a simple raffle. What this meant was that I, with only 4 raids, had an equal chance to win the Hood as those with 20 times that number. The pure raffle is of great benefit to the new arrivals and infrequent raiders.

What I'm trying to point out is that any pre-arranged system is of benefit to the dedicated old timers. The one that tza laid out benefits them more than the raffle. Astriell's mods take it a step further. But it's critical to you old timers that you get some system, otherwise you'll sit there with no advantage at all over people like me.

I could go with tza's system. I could live with Astriell's adds, maybe. It's hard to strike a balance between enticing new people and keeping the old, dedicated crowd. Honestly, the fact that neither system has a cap on the advantage you can gain scares me. The dedicated guys want what the bidding system gave them - a guarantee that they'll get the good loot. The closer you get to a guarantee, the more you'll scare away everyone else. Then you might not own either Tara anymore.

But I doubt that anyone believes that either of these systems will really stop the complaining. I think the best we can do is to try to reduce the complaints. Again, I think the best way to do that is to schedule regular meetings to vote on changes. Your best defense against the complaints is to tell people they should attend the next meeting.

For the record, I don't enjoy the meetings either. But I still think they're out best recourse. Right now we have bickering every single spawn. If we can reduce that to just bickering every two weeks or monthly, I think that's a huge improvement.

[Whitesand]

First I wanted to say is big thx to Astriell for the work she invest in planing raids and manageing it. Also for the work she has with the hompage. Thx Ast. Also want to say thx to predi for the tarabot and thx to all other ppls which helps on raids and make most of the raids a big fun for me and I hope for all other ppls there too.

Yes I still make some faults and still were someone who crys sometimes a little to loud out but hey thats me Now I realize that Tara is more than only loot. It's big fun in this boring game, except of this lags I ever had when I get near Tara hehe. Ok I still want some Tara loot and still hope to get something from Tara so the loot system is still interessting in me. But not as much as it was for a few days ago. I think the system we have is fair. It gives all ppls a fair chance to get the loot - but also I think the system has some error. The point is if we can only roll one time per raid we hoard to much points. So it should be allowed to roll more as once if you don't win a roll. Next point is we have a maximum of a 5 roll point chance for (21+ raids) but can loose all raid points etc. 100+ points if we win the roll. My opinion is still let us loose all points if we win, but if we have say as a example 100 raid points give us 20 roll points not only 5 or if you don't want this and we can only have a max of 5 roll points then we should only loose 21 raid points not more.

Also I think we should assist ast a little better on raids. My opinion is someone who manage the raid and someone who manage the rolls etc.

And please ppl I saw this last when Deng managed the raid cause ast wasn't online. It's not fair to send him bad tells! It makes me sad when I hear that ppl call him a ******* or something else

[Tza]

My idea was that you can roll all you like on every item provided:

You didn't win anything this or the previous raid.

So, after a raid, you roll on the Gay Hood. You don't win, fine, you then roll on the coat. Still didn't win, well, there's still that EoT you can roll on (/me nudges Shty)

Perhaps a loft on how many points you can accumulate should be introduced - this is why this page is here - to let ppl talk, disguss. bring up new ideas and more.

I could suggest another system - lvl 190+, Apprentice and guild leader only in order to roll for items. Bad system? Yes. (well, I'd still get loots). Would ppl complain over such a system, yes. Would people send alot of msg's calling ppl names, yes.
And it would be fair to do it with the abovementioned system

BUT WITH THE SYSTEM WE HAVE NOW, STOP THE NAMECALLING. SPEAK IF YOU CAN DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE. IF NOT, SHADDAP.
_______________________
Littletza, President of Shadow Ops
193 soldier
RK2

[____________Vandamar]

Littletza has my vote for trying to make a workable system. Personally my org members would go there mainly for the fun of participating. Life goes on if you don't win something that day.

[________________Kair]

Thank you Astriell, Predi, Evatan.. and so on and so on and so on....

[_____________Taldrin]

I think Funcom just wants people to be at each other's throats. Putting some of the best items in the game on a single mob which spawns every 18 hours I think it is? Hello? Where is the fun in this? If I remember a poll a while back over 90% of people said that they did not want to have to camp...yet what do Funcom do? *sighs*

[nadders]

why are ppl outside the pf aloow in tara loot roll?

any1 tell me plz i am a thickie

[_______________Hypos]

Well, the tara rules are back up at http://www.tara.fun.ms/. There was a big meeting recently and the rules were updated.

As to people not in the playfield, all I can say is that the rules specify that you must be assigned to a team. I guess they don't specifically say that after being assigned to a team you're not allowed to go do missions If this occurs, I'm sure the situation will be addressed and the individual(s) involved would likely get a bad rep for their behaviour.

[_________Rayfield...]

so happy that u guys are starting up the system again. =) finally i can put KNP to good use. frying Claws are boring, frying Clanners are more fun. =P

/me bows deeply to Ast and Tza and whoever else helped with this system.

Thank you.

[Stuff_4_Sale]

I checked out the webpage with all the info regarding tara loot, and I would like a few more questions answered.
Maybe this will help anyone else who is interested in getting involved with this.

First off, this raid occurs once every 18 hours?
Are there multiple rooms? What is the typical timeline of events that take place. Who keeps track of these points?

Any other info appreciated.


150 trader looking for some ****e in the game
Never been to camelot castle(assuming thats where the raids are)