2 uniques in bank: exploit?

[______Biffstatsnugly]

hmm... seems to me that a big part of the problem to start with is that, having 2 uniques on the account was even used against the player.

To be honest i always thought that the unique tag was used for balancing purposes. IE. no 2 iq rings on at same time. Im almost positive i have 2 of the new omni coats in my bank somewhere. I collect tons of trash and never really sell till my bank is so full of packs that it takes me a day just to sort through them all. Usually use alot of it for guildies, re-rolls, or some noobie that runs by asking for a hammer or something.

My point is i would hate to see that as a reason attached to a ban email for me, even if other reasons where stated.
It takes away from the validity of the ban, and brings doubt into something that should be cut and dry. A player should not be nit picked into a ban. Then Funcom would not look like they are trying to Trump up charges or defame a player by placing other questionable instances to create a profile which you could then easier ban with lesser charges.

Dont know just my 2 cents.

[gnuman]

Of course people get frustrated when they can't even get told why they are banned. And/or the reason keeps getting changed. How can you defend yourself against dupe-accusations when you can't get told from the exploit team what you are supposed to have duped? You get told it was a bag, but nothing specific and they keep changing reasons. Does it sound like they really know what they are doing? Well, not to me.
Still just sounds like they did a mistake and too proud to admit it.

And Thantos911, I couldn't agree more.

[Valoren]

Originally posted by Cz

So we should let the people duping 100 billion credits stay in the game, and continue to exploit? I respectfully disagree, and don't see much point in arguing about that.

And, as far as I know, we don't have people who "can't program properly", unless you define "program properly" as "making 100% flawless code", in which case I doubt you will find many programmer who can "program properly" at all.

Comparing Demios' case to that of 100 billion credit dupers, is by far the worst example i've ever heard, how can you honestly compare the 2???

I agree no one is perfect, but you should not punish Demios for this. This is nothing compared to that credit exploit... *sigh* and you don't even call this an *exploit* it's a *bug*... :P

What you have done is created an emotion within everyone, WILL I BE NEXT??? for something as petty as this. The items were not duped, they were merely all on one account. I agree totally with Noer the solution here is so simple....

*sigh*

[________________Schu]

What you have done is created an emotion within everyone, WILL I BE NEXT??? for something as petty as this.

Yes, absolutely. I for one feel I cannot relax until I have searched and cleared every characters' bankbox and inventory. If I don't I apparently risk a ban.

Having upwards of 40 different characters over 2 accounts, 3 dimensions and the test centre, that is a task I am not looking forward to.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Valoren
Comparing Demios' case to that of 100 billion credit dupers, is by far the worst example i've ever heard, how can you honestly compare the 2???

I didn't.

I replied to this statement:

DO NOT BAN PEOPLE BECAUSE OF YOUR FLAWED CODE!

I didn't make a comparison with Demios' case.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Schu
Yes, absolutely. I for one feel I cannot relax until I have searched and cleared every characters' bankbox and inventory. If I don't I apparently risk a ban.

No, you risk a warning. If you won't comply, you risk a suspension. You do not risk a ban, unless you (as stated before) have an extreme case (I personally doubt you risk a ban even then), or you refuse to comply with the warning (in which case I think a ban will still only be used in extremely few cases).

[Cz]

Originally posted by Noer
Of course people get frustrated when they can't even get told why they are banned.

/me nods

As a side note, I'm going home for the day. Might log on from home, but just though I'd let you know that I'm not ignoring the thread.

[_____Poweredge|vault]

Will someone at FC please give me information on the following:

What items are deemed to be "serious" or "extreme" when duped?

What set of circumstances have to unfold for a player to be banned?

If you don't give the community answers to the above 2 questions, then you can expect quite alot more back-fire from the community. If you don't give the community reasons as to why people are banned, then how on earth do you expect people to trust you to catch the real exploiters. How can you expect the players that behave themselves to be able to trust that you'll make a good call?

If you're going to ban people for unique breaking, then you'd better get a macro for banning people, because I can guarantee that there must be hundreds, if not thousands of players that have unwittingly and unknowingly broken the unique system. Not every player HAS to read these forums, and many that do will never read any of this thread, never mind understand the perspective of where FC applies it's Unique ruling.

As for coding a checker to see if unique already exist on a player, and it not being 100%, then you've got more problems than you can possibly imagine. FC have to write code for this... stat.

What amazes me more than enything else is that FC can't fathom the idea that they are wrong. This reared it's ugly head once before with Claire's NS Mk2 mishap, and only when things had died down sufficiently for only a few people to realise that it had been rectified, did they act properly.

You can't go around making up rulings on the fly, when you're effectively playing with other people's finances and enjoyment. Otherwise you soon come to realise that you get a name that sticks with you for a long long time. Verant is a prime example of what can happen when the game providers act on-the-fly, rather than being sensible, reasonable and rational.

I feel for you Cz... you claim that FC are fully behind you, but even as this issue has developed to this point, you have the goal-posts moved on you from people high up in the heirarchy. What's worse is that every time they change their stance, it affects us far more than you could imagine.

Give us the information that we need to be able to continue. You know EXACTLY what we mean. And don't hide it away in forums, and such like. If it belongs anywhere, then it HAS to be on the login screen in massive bold type. Whispering over over channels and burying it amongst posts and irc spam is a sure fire way to fail.

[Arinia]

Originally posted by Cz


However, I never said "oh yeah, we'll ban them if we see fit", but I guess you mean to show what you feel it sounds like.

Yes, I apologize. I went through great lengths to make sure my post was solely factual information, however I let myself get overzealous and forgot to add that the quotes were mine. I specifically was trying to avoid lawyerism as to the wording of my post, but that failed

At any rate, the quotes were mine. And in my mind:

We will not ban people for owning several of the same Unique item, unless we see that they are deliberately circumventing the Unique property.

means... "Funcom is the judge jury and executioner in these cases. If we want you gone, you are gone, plain and simple."

Obviously from the number of posts and issues brought up here, this is an issue that is important to your playerbase -- Clan/Omni/TC/Non-TC. And what do you do? Get extremely defensive at every turn -- instead of listening to reason and to the interests of your play.. er... customers.

[Valoren]

Originally posted by Cz

I didn't.

I replied to this statement:

I didn't make a comparison with Demios' case.

Ok, well making a comment like that in a thread like this wasn't really needed... =) I took it as a comparison that if Demios got unbanned you should unban those credit dupers as well. I'm mistaken i guess.

But still you have everyone worried about being banned now. You honestly don't agree that this is a petty reason to ban someone? You say we don't know the whole case, legal stuff etc, well if your baning her for some unknown reason, wouldn't it be wise to tell us? I mean I could be doing that same thing as her and not even know it?

I think everyone on this thread wants a happy ending here... You included, why go against what everyone is asking for? I also believe there are hundreds of people that probably don't even read these forums, so if they missed your *explanation* of uniques, they will get banned too?

I've heard countless times, fine *DELETE* the items from demi's account and let her back... even tho I feel funcom is *stealing* items from us regardless... so be it, we just miss demi!!!!!!! what is wrong with you guys??? =) why does everything have to be monumental battle......................... why do people have to *struggle* to play this game...... ITS A GAME CZ =)

[Cz]

Bah, I had to reload the thread one more time, didn't I?

Originally posted by Dscaper
What items are deemed to be "serious" or "extreme" when duped?

As far as I understand, duping is duping. I believe I have only used the "extreme" word as a factor when it comes to multiple Uniques.

What set of circumstances have to unfold for a player to be banned?

Quick list:
1. A reason for suspecting exploiting, which starts an investigation
2. Proof of exploiting found.

(That is only regarding banning due to exploits. Harassment and such is another issue, though quite similar in the process.)

Feel free to add questions. I'll see what people are wondering about, and what I can answer or get answers about. If it's a lot (not connected to specific cases) it might even become an article, for all I know.

If you don't give the community reasons as to why people are banned...

In a general term, we are able to give examples. We can never say "this is a complete list", as we then say "anything not on the list won't get you banned" and people will find a loophole.

We can't give reasons for a specific ban to the community. It should be given quite clearly to the banned person though.

If you're going to ban people for unique breaking...

For the n'th time; we're not.

FC have to write code for this... stat.

Couldn't agree more.

I feel for you Cz...

Thank you. I feel for the community too. I know I would be frustrated in your position, so trust me on that one, please.

Give us the information that we need to be able to continue. You know EXACTLY what we mean. And don't hide it away in forums, and such like. If it belongs anywhere, then it HAS to be on the login screen in massive bold type. Whispering over over channels and burying it amongst posts and irc spam is a sure fire way to fail.

As I said at the top, maybe an article is in its place? I'll bring that up.

Ok, now I'm going home.

[________________Schu]

No, you risk a warning. If you won't comply, you risk a suspension. You do not risk a ban, unless you (as stated before) have an extreme case (I personally doubt you risk a ban even then), or you refuse to comply with the warning (in which case I think a ban will still only be used in extremely few cases).

Riiiiight. Well, ok, thanks for trying to put our minds at rest.
It is still a monumental task, equating to several hours /played time, and one that wouldn't really be necessary if you didn't keep changing the tags on items, and changing your mind on what a tag actually means...

Have a good evening anyway

Edit: Bleh, tag/flag....you know what I mean

[zjozz]

Give me back my mini-me!

[gnuman]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=49151

Enjoy the reading. Cat doesn't post a lot, but when she does it is serious. And this post is a good reading and gives something to think about.

[___________Catalyste]

/me hugs everyone..

*sigh*

[Mercatura]

FC could save themselves a lot of time, trouble, and stink by taking the unique tag off any item that isn't nodrop.

-Players could wear 2 iq rings. So what? They could before. I'll bet dollars to donuts there is a written down statement at FC HQ that they intend to slow leveling.

-Players could swap cloaking devices. So what? They could before. 50 more points in conceal BFD.

-Players could own 2 or more intern op coats, dragon armor, etc. So what? You can only wear 1 at a time.

-Tokens and a few nodrop rares would still be unique, to prevent duping I guess.

Did I miss anything...what else is the almighty unique tag actually supposed to prevent us evil players from doing?

[______________Tarage]

/me hugs everyone.. and leaves

I made up a long post on how horrible Funcom is treating their customers, but I just let it go. A good handful of people have quietly canceled their accounts because of this, not wanting to turn this into an 'unban or we leave!' issue.

The fact is, this is the way Funcom is, and they will not change. I closed both of my accounts last week when this issue frist came up, and will leave in a couple weeks. It's just too bad it had to come to this. There are so many reasons to keep playing, but an equally large number of reasons to quit.

The good news is that Noer and Steff have convinced me to at least try AC2. So look for a crafter named Tarage. ;]

[___________*Kenshin*]

Originally posted by Cz
Removed a couple of posts. If you want to discuss specific on Monday. Not before. In the meantime, please let me have an easy weekend, by keeping this issue off the bulletin board. It is not the proper channel for it, and I will do what I can to provide you all with info on this, on Monday.

Thank you.

Have a nice and calm weekend, everybody.

you say to keep this issue OFF the board..
what is the reason to conceal information about such things, isn't it alot better to let ppl know exactly where you stand with this issue?

[Shadelore]

I have known several ppl who got banned for exploits, which is great, as they themselfs knew they did so, and took it there after.

I this case, the person banned dont even know excactly why the ban came bout, and it seems, with the multiple uncoherent explanations served so far, neither does FC by the look of it.

So ffs, give us Demi back ,we miss her!

I am getting pretty tired of fighting the mechanics & staff of this game instad of trying to play & enjoy it, which I have duly paid for....

[_____________Kodiene]

Originally posted by Cz
.....That is vague enough for me to post it. I hope it's clear enough for you......

That is classic FC

Vague & Clear at the same time?