2 uniques in bank: exploit?

[_____________Rednuht]

quote:
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Originally posted by Dr Rubika
call me whatever you want
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Guys dont blame Dr Rubika, he just got brain washed by FC
Oh wait a minute, he doesn't have brain, sorry my bad.

[___________Dr Rubika]

Im sorry about the bad expample about TC cheating. I just wanted to show you what romuors can do, but it was an horrible expample.

When you read the forums everyday and many of the threads are about how FC sucks and so on, its starts to get boring. I just cant understand why people dont just quit game and do something else. There are so many others here who really like this game.

btw, whats the big deal with AC2? Take a look on the skill system, how its build.

[drdoak]

I think my eyes are going to bleed from reading so much....

You all probably don't remember me, but I was Drdoak/Ladypizza from awhile ago, banned for reasons some of you might remember. Despite the exploit being used by MANY MANY clanners and OT's alike, only Achick and I were banned (to my knowledge) because of that particular exploit. Even now, the OTHER players who benefited from that exploit are playing, still leveling, have new alts (minus the exploit of course) and have received no recourse for their actions, because, as some have probably been committed to in the past, we became MARTYRS (SP) and were, in a metaphorical sense, strung up on a cross and burned at the stake because of it. We had no chances to defend our cases, no chances to do.....anything for that matter.

Well, when I was banned on my first account I was given no warning, no "conversation with GM/ARK-types", no nothing except an email from FunCom saying that "I have had my account perma-banned for such and such reasons. If I would like to talk about it to please reply to this email. " Mind you, I replied to this email.....
Did I get a response? Of course not.... they don't want me to continue to pay THEM money despite the fact that I got caught and I now learned my lesson.

I have a new account, using the SAME credit card, using the SAME account information, yet still nothing

I came back to AO because of the friends I had, that seeming to be the major reason at the moment.





What does all this mean? The same thing that many of you have been stating over and over again with no answer given..
Why does FC continue to handle customer affairs in this horrible manner?

This has nothing to do with you Cz, in fact, I've never talked to you before to my knowledge...
I don't expect FunCom to has the BEST customer support, and to NOT punish people (me) for exploiting, but to completely neglect the customer in every way, shape and form, is grounds for termination in EVERY SINGLE COMPANY I HAVE EVER WORKED FOR. Customers are #1! They pay YOUR salary. They did something wrong, yes, was it or was it not intentional, that's not appearing to be the point anymore. The point it seems to me, is that there is a horrible lack of customer care in FunCom. Whether it be direct or indirect, it IS lacking and needs some severe work....


-Dr. Doak/Ladypizza

(banned, but still in the game! )

[assassimon]

Ladypizza, by just comparing this mistake that FC did with the exploiting you did you show that you don't understand a single bit what is right or wrong and should never been let back ingame.

You used serious exploiting, why would they even discuss it?

Demois didn't exploit anything, FC shouldn't even need to discuss it, cuz he should never have been banned.

[_______________Vydas]

Originally posted by Dr Rubika
When you read the forums everyday and many of the threads are about how FC sucks and so on, its starts to get boring. I just cant understand why people dont just quit game and do something else.

Same. I just can't understand why you keep reading the boring boards.

[___________Dr Rubika]

quote:
Demois didn't exploit anything, FC shouldn't even need to discuss it, cuz he should never have been banned.
--

Dont want to say anything bad about demois, but how can other players be so sure? I dont know how to read other peoples account log, maby you can..
dont think " I know this guy " is good enough reason, so pls tell me.

[drdoak]

Nooooo.....I think that you didn't consider reading my reply at all...


What I was trying to relate is that FunCom handled it poorly and did not give us a chance to redeem ourselves. You apparently don't know what I'm talking about therefore I will just not worry about what you say from here on out. Being that a typical response from a clanner =P

Demios - did not get even one chance to explain or have a chance to get her account reactivated

Ladypizza/Achick - same thing

Steffani - Harrassed by ARK's/accused of harrassment when she did not

These are all related in the fact that CS was handled poorly...

Now my best guess here is that you are going to reply with some flame about how I'm retarded and that I exploited and should have been banned anyway blah blah blah, but you know what? Yes, I should have been banned, should I have been treated a little better? Perhaps, but it's neither here nor there, I'm just stating a point that Customer Service lacks in this game. Instead, you assuming I am trying to say something I'm not and then attack me because of it.

Did Demios exploit? Technically I think so. Did she do it with the intent to abuse that exploit? Most likely not, but does that mean its still not wrong? If you killed someone in self-defense is it not wrong? It's the same thing with the treatment exploit that EVERYONE used. Did FunCom ban a whole bunch of people? No, but they could have and in every respect they should have. It is OUR responsibility as people of the community to find bugs/exploits and then report them and not use them in that same effect. I was not aware that it was illegal to have more than one Unique item on my person at one time. I didn't think about it, because it gave me no message saying, "no you can't do that" or anything like that. I don't keep up with the forums as much as some so how would I know? To prevent myself from getting banned I plan of taking all of my uniques and either deleting them, selling them or trading them as soon as possible so that I have absolutly no reason to get into the same trouble that Demios did.

And like Cz said, he is not allowed to divulge any information about what exactly she was banned for. As far as you know, it was because of something completely different and anyone who told you that it was because of such and such reason, unless from Demios herself, would have no basis, because FC support is not allowed to discuss any information regarding that, like Cz has stated many many times over and over again. However, people don't seem to want to listen.
You ask why? They can't tell you, plain and simple...

[drdoak]

Being that a typical response from a clanner =P

Some roleplaying there....I don't expect anyone to get it, so please don't flame me.

[Pacman]

Hmmmm this is my first post on these forums.... The reason being that for once I read a post that was so far away from any logic I can relate to. Since I realize that discussing Demios banning is pointless given that FC won't comment, I won't go there. I will discuss some issues in general. This post springs from the following comment made by Cz:

Originally posted by Cz


And, as far as I know, we don't have people who "can't program properly", unless you define "program properly" as "making 100% flawless code", in which case I doubt you will find many programmer who can "program properly" at all.

This is true if said in the context that a programmer should be making flawless code as the very first attempt at a task. That would require superhuman intelligence. However this is not the case. The code in question is the code of a game that has been released as a beta and testet by MANY betaplayers who have given extensive comments on flaws, bugs, exploits and others. It is a game with a dedicated test server to try out any new features in the game before launching on the "live" servers. It is a game that has been on the market for over a year and still has more bugs than many betareleases. It is a game that has been patched, repatched and fixed so many times that we by now write 14.5 in patch version and many of the things claimed fixed in varous of these patches STILL aren't fixed. It is a game with a large and active playerbase giving constant input as to what to improve/change and even so I can fill the rest of this post with bugs and flaws currently in this game (don't challenge me, I will do it).

I've been reading this thread in its intirety and analogies seem to be a popular means of explanation so try to follow me on this one:

A big spaceprogram is underway. The launch of a space shuttle into space/the moon/mars/whatever. The project cost a S***load of money and the schuttle is state of the art. Never done better by humanity. Finally the day of the launch arrives. Countdown is done and shuttle lifts off. Unfortunately something goes wrong and halfway out of the atmosphere the shuttle blows up. A lengthy investigation is conducted to find out where the error was so the blame can be placed and the government can get an explanation as to why they invested a gazillion $ in a project that had such bad outcome. The error was in the software controlling the fuel. The programmers are confronted on the issue and the response is: "well you can't expect us to make 100% flawless code!"..........

How many people in the government, NASA, the press and elswhere do you think will accept that explanation? "oh ya thats right, we shouldn't be too hard on them, never mind that we spent the money and gained nothing from it, because we couldn't expect that from them"...... I don't think so....

I chose this particular analogy because I know that, what programmers usually hide behind is the fact that the system they work on is so huge and complex. I don't think the software system for a space shuttle is any less complex.

Of couse it is possible to make flawless code. It may take more money, more time, and more tenasity, but it can be done. I realize that the safety regarding a space shuttle is more important than that of a game, so I don't even expect 100% flawless code, but well into the 90's would be nice, and it certainly isn't at the moment (see earlier threat to list bugs and flaws...)

No matter how you view this issue it can NEVER EVER be the responsibility of the player to compensate for FC's flawed code and in failing to do so risking to be banned. How can you ban players for something that is FC's responsibility?

I'm not trying to defend exploiters here. People who intentionally exploit bugs for their own benefit should indeed be banned, but realize, that with AO being as bugged a game as it is, the burden of proof should be on FC. The evidence should prove BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, that the player in question in fact did exploit, for a ban to occur. The reason for this being, that as initial player of a new game, that player can only assume that whatever he/she can do ingame, can be done because that's how it was intended. If this is not the case, all players should be properly notified of this, and only then can evil intent be proven, should a player repeat the action. And even then the exact rule broken should be stated, as well as the specific incident where a rule was broken should be explained in context to the rules

Furthermore, problems arise from the fact that FC changes the rules of the game ever so often.... What was allowed last week is now no longer allowed, what was illegal last week is now legal. This further adds to the player getting the benefit of the doubt, since he/she might not have known the most rescent change of rules.

Bottom line is that as long as FC don't follow the very basic rules of "procecuting" a player in a fair manner, I don't see how they can defend passing sentence on any players in question.

Decide on the rules, publicise them, stick to them, enforce them..... In that order.

It's as simple as that.

--- SheDevilX

Edit: As you might have guessed English is not my mother tongue, and I appologize for spelling errors and grammar errors in this post.

[Darkbane]

Originally posted by Combat/SheDevil
Since I realize that discussing Demios banning is pointless given that FC won't comment, I won't go there.

And probably *can't* comment... to discuss such would probably be in breach of the law in many countries without prior consent from the individual involved.

[___________Catalyste]

I think one issue still remains, and the last time I spoke with her it was still in limbo:

Demios herself still was not told, as was agreed...not within the time limit, not at all, as to WHY she was banned, other than "Exploiting." It's not myself or any of us who need to know, its the person who got banned.

When criminals are taken to court, or even before the magistrate, they are officially "charged" with a crime (i.e. "you are being charged with arson of the Ixnay Factory building." You can't just have the police show up and take someone away without being told why it's happening "sorry, all we can say is you broke the law, bad bad girl, why did you do it?." This is not martial law, this is not some draconian dictatorship, is it? Lest we resort to some sort of anarchy (pardon the horrid pun here), people these days who get in trouble or who are even a suspect, are told why, or so I thought. Where I live we are supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty." This is not supposed to be some shakespearean "kill all the lawyers" epic where people are guilty until proven innocent. In AO you can do what you want, but outside, it has to be a different world, methinks. I am ignorant, can someone assist me?

[Loxt]

Well spoken Shedevil/combat =)

As with many others who've posted on this topic.

Funcom's customers deserve an answer on the issue of Demios' banning, as does Demios herself. If the circumstances surrounding this event are not brought to light, there will certainly be a major backlash throughout the community, which indeed is already under way, not the least of which includes the disbanning of The Council, a very respected high-level Guild comprised of many players who I've come to know as good friends.

Friends and comrades can not be expected to stand idly by while those wronged are victimized by an unwitting corporate machine. Perhaps this situation is a result of an error on the part of some individual within the system, or boils down to a simple miscommunication. How else could this be explained?

I for one will allow the benefit of the doubt. For now. But the Paying Consumers will not wait forever; we deserve better treatment than this. Those who are working within/for Funcom, if you pay attention to anything that is being communicated on these forums, especially get this point: Resolve this. Find out what happened and why. Notify Demios. Allow her the appropriate chance to defend whatever action you may have deemed bannable. Then publicly announce the result, and either admit the error on your part, or inform us so we know what actions you took were justifiable.

Think of it this way... we are all members of an online community. You have banned and thereby effectively killed an influential member of the community. As uniformed bystanders, we can only point our fingers and cry "Murderers!" You have the means to rectify this. For your sake, please do...

[_____________Kodiene]

Your mother tongue is Beer Comb!

Its good to see some familiar faces in here. (Combat/She/Loxt)

Ya'll should also check out Steffani's thread for some rather harsh treatment.

[_____________Brandon]

LOL

Very NICE thread. Good reading for those long idle hours at school.

LOL

FC just fix your bugs. Dont ban players. Not out fault this has been out since beta. Not our fault the org bank exploit has been as long as the org bank.

LOL

[___________Slickblue]

Originally posted by Cz
It is not intended that you are able to own more than one Unique of the same type. This is a bug in the current code that will be fixed. It is not decided yet what will happen if you have several such items when the fix comes, but we will give proper notice of this before the change happens.

We will not ban people for owning two of the same Unique item. I would suggest you do not wear / wield two of the same Unique item though.

i was told that same exact thing from an ARK.. word for word. i guess it must be what your suppose to say so you dont get in trouble, just in case.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Slickblue
i was told that same exact thing from an ARK.. word for word. i guess it must be what your suppose to say so you dont get in trouble, just in case.

Maybe he just copy / pasted what I said. That way the ARK is always safe, as he/she can blame me.

Anyhowe, this thread is getting old, and I really should delete half of the posts due to name calling. Case is closed. Closing the thread too.

E-mail me if you feel like taking this issue further.