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Thread: NT Balance suggestions - What do you guys want?

  1. #1

    Lightbulb NT Balance suggestions - What do you guys want?

    Since Michi will be making additional balance adjustments soon, I took some time to submit my suggestions to him for what I'd like to see on the PVM side of things. Here's what I'm thinking:

    Lower versions of Garuk's nuke:
    NT's at any level will likely rejoice when this happens. I don't have any specifics, other than the specific suggestions I outlined previously. Hopefully Michi intends to deliver this in the upcoming adjustments.

    Blinds:
    I would like to see these have a longer duration in PVM. PVP wise, the duration isn't bad.

    Nano Heal:
    Essentially, lower versions of Izgimmer's Wealth. If we're getting more versions of Garuk's, nano could become an even bigger problem for lowbie's. This would certainly be a big help there.

    Nanobot Shelter:
    Adding in a lower version, that's easier to get. With the TL4 instance in the queue, most people probably wouldn't want to go and do the Schoel quest for Nanobot Shelter first. However, lowbie NT's could use a little survivability help outside of Nullity Sphere.

    I've also been thinking about SL nukes and limitations to mobility becoming even more of a factor. SL nukes are showing their age now. Being the lion's share of our damage, our stock definitely drops for instances where mobility is key, since NT's would only really be brought for damage. I used to think making SL nukes insta-castable would be bad, but now I'm starting to think otherwise. That would certainly address the issue of mobility, and being something you only get as a paid subscriber, I think they kind of suck overall.

    I also asked Digitalbath to review some input from you guys on some previous threads regarding PVP, but if you have any suggestions, comments or concerns, don't hold back. We want to hear it. I know 220 NT PVP is kind of "meh" now, so we'd like to straighten that out, too.

    If something's great, tell me it's great. If it sucks, I want to hear that, too. :P
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  2. #2
    I would really like to see more damage for pvm, so here is my suggestion:
    A % based nuke, shades have one so i see no problem in us getting one as well, their siphon deals 1% of the mobs total hp when used.


    It could work in a similar way, when the mob is down to X% of hp you can use it, make a few different nukes scaling from 1-3% or something like that, should be fun and bump us a bit dd wise.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    I also asked Digitalbath to review some input from you guys on some previous threads regarding PVP, but if you have any suggestions, comments or concerns, don't hold back. We want to hear it. I know 220 NT PVP is kind of "meh" now, so we'd like to straighten that out, too.

    If something's great, tell me it's great. If it sucks, I want to hear that, too. :P
    I think PvP is overall great except maybe that now that ns2 is mainstream, it s not as fun to be the-ns2-nt. Well mainly cause you actually can't be the-ns2-nt anymore ; you are just-an-other-ns2-NT.

    As a consequence, I DEMAND that doubles be fixed (applies nano dmg modifier to it) so that i could turn into THE-OFF-NT-OF-DEATHDEATHDEATH. Please. Also with pyramid gear there might be an ever more efficient off nt setup available to us.

  4. #4
    % based nuke... Like 1% 20s cooldown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  5. #5
    What level did you have in mind to scale Garuk's nuke to?
    Im mostly interested in pushing the 200 NT agenda, feels like theres nothing to aspire to really in terms of offensive nukes. twinking MC needs rewarding at that lvl too.

    Var
    Varsbot
    Variable004

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    What level did you have in mind to scale Garuk's nuke to?
    Im mostly interested in pushing the 200 NT agenda, feels like theres nothing to aspire to really in terms of offensive nukes. twinking MC needs rewarding at that lvl too.

    Var
    Pretty early on. However, I want options available right up to Garuk's. The following are what I submitted to Michi as suggestions, but what we get will very likely be different:

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    Izgimmer's Little Nuke - Combat - 55 NCU

    Stats:
    NanoPoints 280
    Duration 0s
    Range 30m
    Stacking 55

    Speed:
    Attack 1.25s
    Recharge 1.00s

    Attack:
    Matter Crea 100%

    Defense
    Nano Resist 80%

    Criteria to Use:
    User Profession == Nano-Technician and
    User Level >= 50 and
    User Matter creation >= 550

    Perform on Use:
    Target Damage for 1380 to 2250. If Caster Matter Crea >= 810
    Target Damage for 1260 to 1930. If Caster Matter Crea <= 809 And Caster Matter Crea >= 740
    Target Damage for 1140 to 1670. If Caster Matter Crea <= 739 And Caster Matter Crea >= 670
    Target Damage for 1020 to 1430. If Caster Matter Crea <= 669 And Caster Matter Crea >= 600
    Target Damage for 900 to 1200. If Caster Matter Crea <= 599
    And Caster Matter Crea >= 550
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    Izgimmer's Last Word - Combat - 55 NCU

    Stats:
    NanoPoints 420
    Duration 0s
    Range 30m
    Stacking 55

    Speed:
    Attack 1.25s
    Recharge 1.00s

    Attack:
    Matter Crea 100%

    Defense
    Nano Resist 78%

    Criteria to Use:
    User Profession == Nano-Technician and
    User Level >= 100 and
    User Matter creation >= 850

    Perform on Use:
    Target Damage for 2800 to 4200. If Caster Matter Crea >= 1150
    Target Damage for 2475 to 3710. If Caster Matter Crea <= 1149 And Caster Matter Crea >= 1060
    Target Damage for 2150 to 3225. If Caster Matter Crea <= 1059 And Caster Matter Crea >= 990
    Target Damage for 1825 to 2750. If Caster Matter Crea <= 989 And Caster Matter Crea >= 920
    Target Damage for 1500 to 2250. If Caster Matter Crea
    <= 919 And Caster Matter Crea >= 850

    Viral Assault - Combat - 55 NCU

    Stats:
    NanoPoints 500
    Duration 0s
    Range 30m
    Stacking 55

    Speed:
    Attack 1.25s
    Recharge 1.00s

    Attack:
    Matter Crea 100%

    Defense
    Nano Resist 76%

    Criteria to Use:
    User Profession == Nano-Technician and
    User Level >= 150 and
    User Matter creation >= 1200 and
    User Expansion sets & Shadowlands and
    User Specialization & Third and
    User Cyberdeck & Jobe-chipped

    Perform on Use:
    Target Damage for 4600 - 6900. If Caster Matter Crea >= 1500
    Target Damage for 4200 - 6300. If Caster Matter Crea <= 1499 And Caster Matter Crea >= 1430
    Target Damage for 3800 - 5700. If Caster Matter Crea <= 1429 And Caster Matter Crea >= 1360
    Target Damage for 3400 - 5100. If Caster Matter Crea <= 1359 And Caster Matter Crea >= 1290
    Target Damage for 3000 - 4500. If Caster Matter Crea
    <= 1289 And Caster Matter Crea >= 1200

    Detonation Matrix - Combat - 55 NCU

    Stats:
    NanoPoints 1000
    Duration 0s
    Range 30m
    Stacking 55

    Speed:
    Attack 1.25s
    Recharge 1.00s

    Attack:
    Matter Crea 100%

    Defense
    Nano Resist 75%

    Criteria to Use:
    User Profession == Nano-Technician and
    User Level >= 200 and
    User Matter creation >= 1600 and
    User Expansion sets & Shadowlands and
    User Specialization & Fourth and
    User Cyberdeck & Izgimmer modified

    Perform on Use:
    Target Damage for 7200 - 10800. If Caster Matter Crea >= 1900
    Target Damage for 6400 - 9700. If Caster Matter Crea <= 1899 And Caster Matter Crea >= 1800
    Target Damage for 5700 - 8600. If Caster Matter Crea <= 1799 And Caster Matter Crea >= 1700
    Target Damage for 5000 - 7500. If Caster Matter Crea
    <= 1699 And Caster Matter Crea >= 1600
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  7. #7
    How accessible are you intending these nanosto be? The lvl from 50 and 100 don't have cyberdeck requirements. Are you leaving these out for alternative weapon usage?

    Next I'm not sure whether it might be better to have a slightly lower starting MC and a wider range increments.
    For example: I have a twinked 100 NT with 930 MC self buffed. It's in scouts, full symbs, 200 eye implant an MC focused perks. No mc on back, 1 ring, hud3 or boots. But otherwise I couldn't get more without a mocham. (im assuming the upper tiers are not aiming to be solely accessible via outside buffs)

    I also have a 200 nt, that is quite well equipped (not twinked) it's got 225 scouts, special head, back. Beast star etc reaching about 1700 MC. some room for more MC in the equip but otherwise not very high up on the nanos tiers as I might have expected it to be for the effort applied.

    For the avg lvling chars the lowest tier doesn't seem easily attainable at the minimum lvl locked.
    Although I like that the highest tier is very hard to get. Leaves room for power creep an heroic twink effort.

    Var
    Varsbot
    Variable004

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    How accessible are you intending these nanosto be? The lvl from 50 and 100 don't have cyberdeck requirements. Are you leaving these out for alternative weapon usage?
    I hadn't put much thought into that, but my guess is the easiest solution, which would be adding a few to the ofab shop. It would be nice to see one replace the Pen quest reward, as I think it's a pretty crappy reward currently.

    My intention on the first two having no cyberdeck requirement is that froobs can use them, but I'm not dead set on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    Next I'm not sure whether it might be better to have a slightly lower starting MC and a wider range increments.
    For example: I have a twinked 100 NT with 930 MC self buffed. It's in scouts, full symbs, 200 eye implant an MC focused perks. No mc on back, 1 ring, hud3 or boots. But otherwise I couldn't get more without a mocham. (im assuming the upper tiers are not aiming to be solely accessible via outside buffs)

    I also have a 200 nt, that is quite well equipped (not twinked) it's got 225 scouts, special head, back. Beast star etc reaching about 1700 MC. some room for more MC in the equip but otherwise not very high up on the nanos tiers as I might have expected it to be for the effort applied.

    For the avg lvling chars the lowest tier doesn't seem easily attainable at the minimum lvl locked.
    Although I like that the highest tier is very hard to get. Leaves room for power creep an heroic twink effort.

    Var
    My original intention was that it would be difficult to get the top tiers purposely, and to leave a bit of headroom for additional stuff being added to the game. (Ex: I think we could reasonably have MC Infuse as an NT castable buff, which changes the story a bit. The Reck may possibly bring additional items to the game, also.) Also, that getting into the nano exactly at the level requirement would be harder with the later versions. I didn't base these on a specific toon I had, but rather throwing together a setup on Auno. Being all paper, there's certainly room for errors to happen.

    The 200 version is specifically much harder, because leveling past 200 rewards you with much more MC per level. However, 200 twinks are common and this would provide something rewarding to work for outside of Constant Barrage and a useless DoT.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  9. #9
    What about the cool down time for these? considering at the lower levels its just going to be pure extra DD.

    Are you wanting to move away from additional damage when nuking along side an AI dot? Now that the AI lvl req has lowered it might not be a bad thing, as its rewarding effort.

    Var
    Varsbot
    Variable004

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    What about the cool down time for these? considering at the lower levels its just going to be pure extra DD.
    10 seconds would be awesome, but the lower versions may have to be a bit longer. I mentioned that to Michi a while back now, but haven't heard anything about it yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    Are you wanting to move away from additional damage when nuking along side an AI dot? Now that the AI lvl req has lowered it might not be a bad thing, as its rewarding effort.
    Good question.

    I don't want any of these to be dependent on AI DoT's like the original Detonation Matrix. However, adding a tiny damage boost if there's some form of AI DoT running isn't a bad idea. Seems I didn't throw that in anywhere when I came up with these originally, but I'm not opposed to it at all.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  11. #11
    To address the other things you guys brought up...

    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    I would really like to see more damage for pvm, so here is my suggestion:
    A % based nuke, shades have one so i see no problem in us getting one as well, their siphon deals 1% of the mobs total hp when used.


    It could work in a similar way, when the mob is down to X% of hp you can use it, make a few different nukes scaling from 1-3% or something like that, should be fun and bump us a bit dd wise.
    I'm not opposed to this idea. 220's definitely need help with damage.

    I could see this working nicely if it scaled the % HP down as mob level goes up. So basically, it would take more of a chunk away from a lower level mob, but vs a high level boss, it would still deal a ton of damage even if it were 1% without being ridiculously OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djiax View Post
    As a consequence, I DEMAND that doubles be fixed (applies nano dmg modifier to it) so that i could turn into THE-OFF-NT-OF-DEATHDEATHDEATH.
    Digitalbath has submitted this to Michi.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  12. #12
    As Vinkera said, I've submitted some suggestions to fix Doubles and overall Offensive Focus gameplay to Michizure already, but every single NT's opinion on this counts.

    My goal is simple, have NT's PvP side fun and competitive in both Def and Off Focus, without either of them being OP.
    If the long term goal is to help our mobility by having more line cooldowns and less recharges and lockouts, our playstyle will have to adapt. We just need to know if the community in general agrees with that goal, of course.

    I'm fully open to suggestions in threads, PMs or in-game. Poke me anytime.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post

    I could see this working nicely if it scaled the % HP down as mob level goes up. So basically, it would take more of a chunk away from a lower level mob, but vs a high level boss, it would still deal a ton of damage even if it were 1% without being ridiculously OP.
    Yeah that's really good and depending on how it's implemented perhaps let us nuke a lower level mob when it has more hp left than something with huge hp, witch would make us actually get off nukes on normal mobs and such
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  14. #14
    Another thing I mentioned to Michi was about the possibility of scaling values on SL nukes also. The reason I bring this up, is I think it's the real answer to 220's lack luster damage.

    As things are now, it's completely pointless to go much past 2600 MC if you're looking for all out damage. If you do, you start weakening IU by losing + %Nano dmg, and the gain you get from the next tier of Garuk's evaporates. If SL nukes had some scaling values, + %Nano dmg wouldn't be as vital as it is now, and getting into top tier Garuk's would actually be worth it.

    Having % based nukes would be cool, but it isn't the whole solution.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  15. #15
    Make it so if you have a dot running ALL nukes make a good deal more dd? Low dot makes regular nukes do X% more damage and have it scale up with better dots, and so on.

    Possibly a lot of work to do, or not if the dot itself sets whatever value it need to make the mob hurt more from nanodamage, there is a (nt) perk that does exactly this, sets nano vulnability to a value.
    This then affects ALL nanodamage (i think even perks!) from all players, but hey, that would make having an nt in team/raid a good dd bonus
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    As Vinkera said, I've submitted some suggestions to fix Doubles and overall Offensive Focus gameplay to Michizure already, but every single NT's opinion on this counts.
    Sorry if that s been said allready but... an additionnal issue with double... it cast pierce reflect on landing it, lasting for 1 sec. But the dmg is done 1.75 sec later, and again 1.75 sec later. So the dmg is not done during pierce reflects. Intended ???? Doesn t make much sense if so. Should cast pierce reflect two time imo, one time for each dmg. Can reduce pierce reflect to 0.5sec if it s considered OP to have 2 times 1 sec pierce reflect.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Djiax View Post
    Sorry if that s been said allready but... an additionnal issue with double... it cast pierce reflect on landing it, lasting for 1 sec. But the dmg is done 1.75 sec later, and again 1.75 sec later. So the dmg is not done during pierce reflects. Intended ???? Doesn t make much sense if so. Should cast pierce reflect two time imo, one time for each dmg. Can reduce pierce reflect to 0.5sec if it s considered OP to have 2 times 1 sec pierce reflect.
    That was an attempt to fix a problem that backfired a little. Currently only the first hit of doubles is supposed to Pierce Reflect.
    This makes Doubles useless. Add that Delayed nukes are on the same line cooldown and you get a messy clunky useless Offensive Focus with about the same damage and alpha potential as Defensive Focus and no Nullity Sphere.

    It's been relayed to Michi already, rest assured.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  18. #18
    Mr Morden
    What do you want?

    Technomage
    We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocations of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things.
    When I look at you, Schluups, I see a great cyberdeck, reaching out of a star. The hand is your hand, and all around I hear millions of voices crying your name.
    Schluups
    My followers?
    Technomage
    Your clan victims.
    ... *clap *clap... now b****** bring me MY crown!
    There are no problem that an absence of solution could'nt solve

    Wielder of the "IWin" button.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    Make it so if you have a dot running ALL nukes make a good deal more dd? Low dot makes regular nukes do X% more damage and have it scale up with better dots, and so on.

    Possibly a lot of work to do, or not if the dot itself sets whatever value it need to make the mob hurt more from nanodamage, there is a (nt) perk that does exactly this, sets nano vulnability to a value.
    This then affects ALL nanodamage (i think even perks!) from all players, but hey, that would make having an nt in team/raid a good dd bonus
    I like the teamability aspect you're thinking.

    Right now, I'm thinking more individual, though. Having SL nukes possible to insta-cast and scale with MC would be a nice fresh change. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. If they were on cooldown, your cyberdeck and eventually offhand weapons actually get a chance. That solves damage issues, mobility issues and helps out AR, since MC would actually matter again.

    If we get the individual straightened out, I'd love to look into teamability more at that point. Team absorb aura, nano damage aura, etc. All interesting possibilities that could fit NT well.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  20. #20
    Imagine self-refreshing team layers.. oooooh wannabe keeper, but i would like that
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

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