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Thread: Forcing us to get another client does not make sense

  1. #21

    Chain Letter

    Soo, Player A buys the booster, gives client to player B (who is hopelessley hooked) and then subscribes after 30 days and also buys boosters, who he gives to player C, etc.

    Not sure this is totally valid. I get sent disks from AOL quite often and I bin them. If a friend gave me AO, I would do the same.

    You can download the game without a key and play it, so the client and key thing is not really a great incentive.

    I have cancelled my account as I cannot see the point in continuing while boosters (patches), and expansions (big bug fixes) are now being charged for.

    I am heading over to AC for a little while as I never saw that, and will move to AC2 on launch. Incidentally, AC plus free month cost less than the AO booster...

    I will probably return to AO in a year or so when I am bored of AC2 and SWG and awaiting the October 2003 launch of EQ2.

    Kytesta
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  2. #22

    Question

    The biggest gripe I have with the booster pack is that FC is not even giving us an alternative to buying it in stores, like downloading it straight from the FC site.
    I have been a subscriber of AO since day one and I have no need for another game client. Yet FC is forcing me to pay for the printing of the CD, distribution and the stores overhead. Why?
    I don't mind paying for the booster, but I do mind paying for unnecessary expenses when I could get it cheaper and simpler as a download. It's hard to imagine that the booster pack will be any bigger than the game client itself, yet you can download that.

    Is there a reason for this apart from the size of the pack? I suspect that the reason for the $19.95 price tag is indeed that we get another client on top of the booster pack since it is too much for what amounts to a big patch that adds sorely lacking content that we, arguably, should have had for free.

    Shave off all the unnecessary overheads and offer us the pack as a download and I will buy it, if not...forget it.
    This has nothing to do with cost but with decency and treating your customer right and is rapidly turning into a matter of principle for me as a longtime subscriber.

    Keep what profits you would have made from the pack, FC, and offer it as a download as well. It's only fair...
    Last edited by Dominata; Sep 13th, 2002 at 10:38:19.
    Dominata
    Member of THM

  3. #23
    Actually your not paying for the client.

    You can download the client for free or buy it in the shop...The difference?

    Box, manual and other gubbins
    Free Month!

    That right people, that month isnt actually as free as you think it is. The booster pack is an attempt by FC to get 'retail sales'. Retail sales is what bring in new customers (when they see it on the shelf and think 'ooh I wonder what that it'). But dual distribution (download and retail) is more expensive than a single distribution model, since you have to maintain the download server and image and all that money you spent on the retailk packaging has gone to waste.

    Since this is a retail excersize and is all about making money, everyones gonna have to buy retail (even if you go via the online shop its still retail since you end up with retail package). They have to go to the expense of making up the box art and mastering the CD's anyway so they maximise the sales by making it the only purchase option.

    So existing users, you're partially/completely (difficult to judge without all the numbers) paying for a free month you aint gonna be able to use on your current account, as well as for the booster pack.
    Dont you think I look like Geordie from Star Trek?
    <-----------------------------------------------------------
    Actually I look more of a cross between him and Picard don't I?

  4. #24
    Originally posted by Warlock

    But dual distribution (download and retail) is more expensive than a single distribution model, since you have to maintain the download server and image and all that money you spent on the retailk packaging has gone to waste.
    Placing an image of the booster CD onto the ftp where the current client is, will incurr huge costs? Or will mean that the ftp server will suddenly require further financial upkeep?

    Pffft.

    It's only some data on a hard disk. Anyone who says the download option for the booster is bringing more expenses, or is too difficult for FC to implement, is just plain crazy.

    Here's what I can't get my head around...


    FC has this idea for Booster Packs. Now, this is all nice and good for potential new customers, but existing customers are only interested in purchasing the "Booster" aspect of the "Pack", we don't need another game client CD.

    To save all the costs of packaging and distribution of the booster content, at least for existing customers, would be to simply place the booster content cd image, onto the ftp. Then setup an online page for activating the booster, and ordering the key for it. (I personally downloaded my AO, and used the online reg site for making 2 accounts. I was sent an automated email with my account keys.) +Surely possible to do for the booster, no?

    (Off Topic: I lost my 1st account cd-key, when do we get a button in the "My Account" section, to request it via email?)

    Why can't FC do this for the booster content CD too? I actually know the anser to that one, corporate greed.


    Let's move on to the "chain letter" effect. Hmmmmmmmmm, yep corporate greed again.

    Ok FC wants to make money, but using cheap tricks isn't good for your image, or for a company that's claimed to have made a breakthrough in online MMORPG's, by having both 1st person and 3rd person views in their game. Yer I know, nothing real fancy about that, but FC thinks they're the new bad boys in the gaming industry for making this "breakthrough", and have therefore made a bit of a rep for themselves. Shame that it hasn't lasted, eh FC?


    Ok, so how about those with more than one account...

    Like I said above, when I bought AO via the online download offer, I was sent my CD key's via email.

    (Slight Off-Topic here. My second download AO account, was $10 cheaper to buy, than my first account was. Just thought I'd mention that.)

    Back to my post.

    Why can't I go to an online page, log into my account section (where you have your details, payment options etc etc..), and have a link/button to purchase a booster key? I'd pay for it from my credit card (you already have details), and send me the key via email, like you did with my downloaded account.

    IT'S SO EASY TO DO, and FAR cheaper than printing 100's of 1000's of boxes, and printing double the amount of CD's to go inside them (I assume the booster will be a separate cd, otherwise you can't give away new client cd to a friend, cos then no booster cd). NOT TO MENTION all the manuals to go with them.

    I see lots of people on here saying how much it costs for FC to do this, or do that... Well DO THIS FC, save all that cash for making the game BETTER, not turning it into a giant cash eater for you. And yes I know you're a company here to make money, but without happy customers, there's no happy income.

    I also would like to know, just HOW BIG is the booster?

    Another gripe both myself and many other posters here have, is why can it not be downloaded? Right now, due to "lack of demand", my exchange is not being updated to ADSL standard. (I'm in UK, BT sucks. Bleh!) I'm currently using a 64K ISDN connection. And yet, I left my PC overnight, and downloaded the game client, then burned it to CD.

    Saying that the booster is too big for people to download, is one big fat lie on your part. For the moment, let's say it's 800+MB. Even on my ISDN, I'm prepared to download it. Might take me 2 days, but it's quicker than waiting a week for the postman (who also suck, heh).

    So, a person with broadband can download 800+MB in.. how long? I'm guessing 6 hours tops, maybe as much as 8, if the ftp was busy (which it probably would be heh). One word for that one: Mirror.

    As far as being a large download goes, I can't see, for any logical reason, why it's not going to be available. If it's easier to walk down the road, and buy the box, more power to you. If like me, it's going to be easier to download the cd image from an ftp server, then if I choose to spend 3 days downloading........ Isn't that my choice and not yours?


    To summarise.

    I think this whole "You must buy it in a shop, and several copies if you have several accounts, who you wish to use booster with", is nothing more than corporate greed. Total disrespect of existing customers concerns and also very insulting to them.

    I mean, let's say I had a shop, and charged an entry fee. How would you like it, if after paying the fee, I told you to pay again, for your other leg? Sounds totally stupid?

    WELL DUH!!

    I think that with some counselling, and maybe a spot of hypnosis, you'd get the point FC. But how you are right now? Hmmmmmm, "Blinded By Greed" is a saying that springs to mind.

    The ideas I posted above, about the online purchasing, and assigning of booster keys, is* not only possible with even your current system, it's SO such a thing to bring many many smiles to many of your customers' faces.


    Think it over FC, or does that make your head hurt too much?



    Edits:
    * typo "id" is now "is"
    + added text
    Last edited by Wufflez; Aug 29th, 2002 at 15:27:54.
    Stroke me, you know you want to.

  5. #25
    Hey I wasnt defending it - just explaining it.

    The reason I said dual dist was more expensive is that they _want_ you to pay full whack. They have to do the retail stuff anyway, so why make it easier for the existing player when anything _beyond_ retail is extra work/cost for them
    Dont you think I look like Geordie from Star Trek?
    <-----------------------------------------------------------
    Actually I look more of a cross between him and Picard don't I?

  6. #26

    Re: Chain Letter

    Originally posted by Kytesta
    You can download the game without a key and play it, so the client and key thing is not really a great incentive.
    Er... the download costs nothing... but you pay $20 for a... guess what... "key and first month's subscription."

    So, actually, you are saving your friend some cash. Of course, if they want the booster....
    Gunned down the young. Now old, crotchety, and back.

  7. #27

    Arrow

    They're giving everyone who gets the booster free mule accounts for 30 days
    mercatura -ae f. [trade, traffic; merchandise]

    Moved off-world and found real tradeskills...along with many other things

  8. #28

    Re: Forcing us to get another client does not make sense

    Originally posted by Ashuras
    Errm.... let's look ahead and see what happens.

    1) I already have TWO existing accounts.
    2) I buy TWO booster packs for these 2 existing accounts.
    3) I end up with TWO EXTRA CD-Keys for NEW accounts.
    4) I give these TWO New accounts to friends.
    5) These TWO friends want to have booster pack as well...
    6) So they buy TWO booster packs.
    7) Now they have TWO EXTRA CD-Keys... lying these useless.
    8) Give to their friends and REPEAT THE CYCLE ?

    This is CRAP. Sounds like a cheapo way to push AO's subscriber base at EXISTING PLAYER'S EXPENSE!

    Multiply this by the exisitng AO player base.. that would be a lot of $$$ wasted on OUR part.

    It is VERY UNFAIR IMO.

    Funcom. U guys should show some sincerity in treating your EXISTING customers with some respect and not think we are idiots.

    I hope u guys come with with a modified package for existing subscribers, and allow the online purchase with download option.

    Or even allow mail order online, like what u did once with mailing out the client CDs.

    I am sure u will earn more $$$ this way as u cut out all the middleman, etc.

    During AO's launch, I would not have been able to play AO if u guys didn't allow the download and registration online. The AO boxes only came to retail stores in my country MONTHS after the launch. If u are sticking to the BOX only approach.... I think I might just end up giving up AO after all.
    Ok ill just skip all the answers to your original post so if all the things im saying are said over and over again ... Click the back button at free will. =)

    So.. Crap you say? Pushing AO's subscriber base? What, you dont like new players? At least that sounds that way. Id be very happy to see new players come into AO because of this new booster pack. And how are we idiots eventually?

    Hmh.. It must be the cost you're raving about. Hmm.. Well i guess the cost of having the extra client on the CD means .. humm .. about 5 seconds more burning time per CD so ok its causing some costs and raising the price of the booster pack bu 0.5$ or something like that. Just by adding the AO client itself to the CD doesn't mean that it raises the packs price by +10$ if you didn't happen to think about that: It might be a method or aim to get the subscriber base up but you're screaming bloody hell about it?

    Care to elaborate some more?
    Regards,
    Chromad

    Advisor of the First Order

    Tukan | Chromad | Mikados

  9. #29

    unfair to force people to buy exp pack

    the brief desc of the exp pack clearly gives players who "pay" advantages that those who do not will NOT received.

    there is something fundamentally flawed in the ethics of this, as it is clearly a way to "strongly encourage" people to buy the pack, if not, they will be at a disadvantage to others who have.

    if people are allowed to "buy" the advantage of land ownership, why can't 1 player "buy" credits, or nice weapons from another? seems entirely based in economics, and very little to do with user experience / fairness.

    some people obviously want the expansion pack and others will probably leave the game in disgust the first time they are ganked in one of these areas.

    I have read that there will be no problem of high levels dominating lower levels. I strongly disagree. A high level org can easily assemble new lower level orgs for the sole purpose of having towers in an area that span from lvl 1 to lvl 200+. To think that people will not figure that out and use it to their advantage is naive.

    the fairest and simplest solution is to only allow people who buy the pack to be affected in any way. Those who don't pay should not be benefitted NOR harmed, they are simply left out of that aspect of game play.

    Im trying really hard, but i can't recall any other games where 1 player can "pay" (the game publisher) to have an advantage over another. If this is the case, whe doesn't Funcom let me pay $50 USD for nullity or a Yalm? i would pay for that in a second.

    no beating around the bush funcom, you are forcing those who do not "pay" to be disadvantaged.

    even to a small seemingly insignificant degree, is clearly a business strategy to get revenue. Treating it as anything else is insulting the intelligence of the online community.

    btw - i have paid for the pack in advance, and i think its is awesome.

    i want u to make the land ownership features, but i also want u to make them fair.

  10. #30
    Originally posted by Wufflez


    Placing an image of the booster CD onto the ftp where the current client is, will incurr huge costs? Or will mean that the ftp server will suddenly require further financial upkeep?

    Pffft.

    It's only some data on a hard disk. Anyone who says the download option for the booster is bringing more expenses, or is too difficult for FC to implement, is just plain crazy.
    The cost would be the bandwidth costs of several thousand people downloading the darn thing (pretty sure it would be cheaper to print the cds than pay for the bandwidth it would take for everyone to download it.

    hugs

    lilnymph
    Lilnymph - Clan Fixer - RK1
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  11. #31
    Originally posted by lilnymph


    The cost would be the bandwidth costs of several thousand people downloading the darn thing (pretty sure it would be cheaper to print the cds than pay for the bandwidth it would take for everyone to download it.

    hugs

    lilnymph
    Thanks Lil, I wasnt going to bother explaining it to him.

    Yes a download image _appears_ to be a simpler/cheaper option but most people just down know how much backend stuff is required to make it viable/relaible (can you say Microsoft?)

    This aint yer napster P2P network we're talkin about here boy :-)
    Dont you think I look like Geordie from Star Trek?
    <-----------------------------------------------------------
    Actually I look more of a cross between him and Picard don't I?

  12. #32
    I still don't really get this argument.

    I see it this way:

    It costs a certain amount to package and promote a product. In order to cover this basic expense, and actually get on the shelves, you want to bring your product in at a certain price.

    Now, considering that you can download the client for free, it seems safe to assume that it isn't the AO cd that's boosting the price to $20. It's packaging. Shipping. It's marketing.

    So- whether the thing had only the booster in it or not, it's going to reach the shelf with a price of about $20. Stuffing the client in there is only a win/win. The product becomes instantly accessible to *new* customers, and it's inclusion has a nominal effect on the final price, if indeed it has any effect at all.
    k- This message has been reviewed by intrusive goons searching for "evil-doers".

  13. #33
    Originally posted by Blue Cat
    I still don't really get this argument.

    I see it this way:

    It costs a certain amount to package and promote a product. In order to cover this basic expense, and actually get on the shelves, you want to bring your product in at a certain price.

    Now, considering that you can download the client for free, it seems safe to assume that it isn't the AO cd that's boosting the price to $20. It's packaging. Shipping. It's marketing.

    So- whether the thing had only the booster in it or not, it's going to reach the shelf with a price of about $20. Stuffing the client in there is only a win/win. The product becomes instantly accessible to *new* customers, and it's inclusion has a nominal effect on the final price, if indeed it has any effect at all.
    Including the client is a way for FC to justify a price of 20$ by making it seem more substantial than the package really is. If you look at it the booster doesn't really add that much new stuff apart from some new graphics, sounds and the towers themselves, obviously.
    The price is way too high for what you are getting, that is one of the reasons FC "pads" it with the client.

    Yes, you can download the client for free but you can't play for free after the trial period. They will charge you 19.95$ if you stay on...

    For a lot of us the issue is not about money, it's about the principle of the whole thing. New players get both the game and the booster and the first month for free on their subscription, old players gets nothing. If you are a new player you get a good deal but us "vets" gets shafted since the contents of the booster is hardly worth 20$.
    Since the contents was originally thought to be a part of Shadowlands, do you think the release of the booster will bring the price of Shadowlands down with 19.95$ Hardly...

    Funcom also plans on releasing more boosters and you have to ask yourself how many copies of the AO game client the world can take. It may be marketing, but it is bad marketing if you do not cater to your existing customers while trying to draw in new ones.
    We still wait for countless fixes for bugs that have been in the game from day one, read the boards and you will know that so much is still broken it isn't even funny anymore. By not even offering the booster as a download at a reduced price they basically gives us the finger. That is not the way to gain a loyal community...

    One thing I wonder about is if the game client included in the booster is already payed for, or is it just a trial version? Will new players who buy the booster have to fork out another 19.95$ after their trial period? Does anyone know?

    To wrap it up I want to emphasize once again that for most of us this is not a question about money, but of FC not showing the slightest appreciation for their current player base. If you want loyalty you have deserve it.
    Dominata
    Member of THM

  14. #34
    Originally posted by Dominata


    Including the client is a way for FC to justify a price of 20$ by making it seem more substantial than the package really is. If you look at it the booster doesn't really add that much new stuff apart from some new graphics, sounds and the towers themselves, obviously.
    I happen to agree with you on that. It's also got the bonus I mentioned of making the product instantly accessible to new customers. But it does seem to be a sort of "stuff that in there, too and justify the $20" sort of thing.

    All I'm saying is that they clearly want the package to cost $20. It'll cost that much, or somewhere near that, whether it's got the original game client in it or not.

    A download would be a whole different story, but I simply don't have enough information on the costs involved to speak intelligently on the subject.

    (PS- I personally hate downloading things like this anyway. But maybe that's just me. :P)
    k- This message has been reviewed by intrusive goons searching for "evil-doers".

  15. #35
    Existing players wouldnt have a problem with this if they were able to add the free month to their existing account.

    THAT I believe is the root of the argument. But its the special edition all over again
    Dont you think I look like Geordie from Star Trek?
    <-----------------------------------------------------------
    Actually I look more of a cross between him and Picard don't I?

  16. #36
    In the end it is FC trying to get new people to join AO.

    At the moment AO isn't even on shop shelves. It is rarely meantioned on game sites, who always come up with everquest and DAC when talking of current MMORGPs.

    The reason the booster is being released is so that AO is on the shelves for Christmas, and maybe to give people a look at what SWG has to go against (and if SWG has a bad launch with crashes and bugs people might consider AO)

    Therefore it is more appealing to new people to have the client with it (not having to buy 2 products).

    Problem here is that us already ingame have to pay the same price for the same thing, but we don't get the 1 month free (effectively as you can't change chars to a new account).

    I would say that either 1 month free to our current account, or a special reduced price offer for current players, would make things a lot better.

  17. #37

    Red face

    I don't think i have ever seen so many sad whiners, $20 piffling dollars. As said, it would cost that with or without client and its bound to cost about £20 (GBP) here in the UK anyways.
    So does it really really really matter that much wether the original client is shipped with it?

    Some people are impossible to please :P

    The free month is for the benefit of new players, as it should be.

  18. #38
    Originally posted by Nikoliath
    I don't think i have ever seen so many sad whiners, $20 piffling dollars. As said, it would cost that with or without client and its bound to cost about £20 (GBP) here in the UK anyways.
    So does it really really really matter that much wether the original client is shipped with it?

    Some people are impossible to please :P

    The free month is for the benefit of new players, as it should be.
    I'm not even going to reply to this... Oh wait, yes I am...

    Please read this following statement that will be in bold capitals for your benefit... IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY!!!

    If you have failed to understand that you have not read the posts in this or other threads.

    The booster pack is shallow, and apparently the first of what must be several equally shallow booster packs, all bundled with yet another game client, I have to assume. The only new real content is the towers which is a rather pointless addition since they will not be allowed to be placed in anything resembling a strategic location. The only reason to attack another tower will be that you are jealous of someone elses tower or that you think it is a particularly ugly tower. I do not consider updated graphics and sound added content.

    It is also about the way FC treats their current players by bundling the booster with the game client. The way I see it the booster comes free with the game, and I already have the game...
    We have suffered through several bad patches, we still have numerous game killing bugs and balance issues that Fc needs to take care of. But everything is on the backburner because of the booster and Shadowlands, they keep filling the game with useless trinkets and their idea of content these days seems to consist of fighting bigger and bigger boss mobs.

    It's smells of forced marketing and is a very tasteless way of promoting something that wouldn't sell otherwise. By bundling it this way they can claim that AO still sells, since they don't dare publish how many accounts that are active they will try to point to the amount of sold units, which will dramatically increase when the booster pack is launched.
    Read this quote...
    "The box will contain both the entire Anarchy Online game client and the additional features of the booster pack."

    This is obviously a way for them to claim a greatly increased playerbase...

    When they claimed that the booster would be too big for downloading they outright lied to us, they didn't even want to give us the choice. Their total disregard for current players is upsetting to a lot of people.
    I would gladly pay $20 or more to a company that earned it and for as product that actually added content to the game, sadly FC has done neither.
    Dominata
    Member of THM

  19. #39

    Cool :)

    Dominata, it was not a personal stab at you, or any one person just the general bad vibes that fill this comunity at times. And in this case the original statement about FC forcing us to buy something we dont want. The argument being that the client will be bundled with it, presumably at no extra cost ( meaning that the "Booster" would be $20 with/without AO client ).

    I really dont see the problem with that issue, however i am not saying that the "booster" is good or bad. I totaly agree with your points about the terrible updates of late.

    its just tiresome reading complaint after moan after whine, justifed as many of them are .

  20. #40
    Originally posted by Dominata
    When they claimed that the booster would be too big for downloading they outright lied to us, they didn't even want to give us the choice. Their total disregard for current players is upsetting to a lot of people.
    I would gladly pay $20 or more to a company that earned it and for as product that actually added content to the game, sadly FC has done neither. [/B]
    I downloaded the game client, so.. the booster pack would NOT be a too big download. If everything else fails, make an adventure game that is as good as TLJ(wich rocked btw)
    At one time I was actually thinking of canceling my pre-order, if thats even possible. But then I thought, hell, I can afford those 20$ I mean, alot of people spend 20$ on useless things anyway, and worthless trinkets and so on.
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