"Best" way to fix the "bracer issue".

[ethernal3]

I posted this on another thread and I just though that I'd post it on a new thread as well...




Also, the nerf doesn't change nor balence anything (except those who don't have them.) Yes, it is laziness if you don't get them. It is their own fault. There are no profession-wear requirments.

And yes, a doctor with bracers and RRFE will be too powerful.

So, make Reflect Shields self only. (both of them.) So, you say, engies and soldiers will no longer be wanted in teams!

So, give them an aura that affects only the people in the team in Non-PvP zones. T (if funcom makes the new hunting grounds in PvP zones, doesn't do much but make people go back to missions). Make the soldier ones add 30% reflect, and the engies one give 24% reflect, and also stack with other auras (i.e. ACs) and then fix the auras so they aren't so damn annoying. So, you get to maintain the balence in PvM, as so many people complain about, plus you get the added bonus of Soldiers and Engy's reflect being a unique ability in PvP. And no more doctors that can outheal anyone.
~Chris

[Ghandalf]

Exactly the same as written in kalashnakofs thread more or less but i'll still bump it since i luv u.

Btw Eth. when are we forming the "gimps'R'us" guild we've been talking about?
------------------------------
LordBedwyr
n00b
RK2

[Maximilian]

Chris, you might be a big 'Schreihals' (troll, if you prefer that) but your brain is still working, or?

Take one step back and read your post again.

Granted the fact that your reasoning isn't bad/screwed, do you really think FC will change their strategy?

[Disclaimer] I do not PVP, nor do I want to, atm - my few PvP encounters (killed by high levels) made think about quitting!

It is common knowledge, that the 'reflection' bracers are (severly) overpowered (in PvP). They (FC) had to do something about it. Everybody knew, that they would be nerfed (scaled down). Ok, the effect is harsh, and it will change several things in PvP. The order of PvP professions might be mixed up a little by this (guessing here).

But do you honestly assume, they might go a way the kind you proposed. Four or five changes instead of a 'single' one? Never, if you ask me. Imagine the effort and resources you would need for the changes you propose ...

I don't like nerfs either, but in some cases you have to cut down the tree that it survives!

And, my dear MegaChris - your ideas include nerfs as well. Why the hell should my (our; Engi & Soldier) reflection nanos be nerfed, just that you can keep your (hard earned) bracers? Eh?

[Disclaimer] Immune to flaming - Chris can defend himself and sometimes even write in whole sentences

So long,

Max(imilian) - frozen Adv soul twin of Vermeer - Omni Engineer

[ethernal3]

Disclaimer: Post Quoting Initiated

Originally posted by Maximilian
Chris, you might be a big 'Schreihals' (troll, if you prefer that) but your brain is still working, or?

Actually it shut down a few months ago, but that's besides the point.


Take one step back and read your post again.


Hard to read from a step back, but I'll try.

It is common knowledge, that the 'reflection' bracers are (severly) overpowered (in PvP). They (FC) had to do something about it. Everybody knew, that they would be nerfed (scaled down). Ok, the effect is harsh, and it will change several things in PvP. The order of PvP professions might be mixed up a little by this (guessing here).

As I said before, Reflection Bracers when combined with RRFE are overpowering for many professions. When they stand alone, yes they are quite powerful, though not enough to push the edge. (thew "other" nerf means you can still get 37% reflect, just 5% less than mine.)

But do you honestly assume, they might go a way the kind you proposed. Four or five changes instead of a 'single' one? Never, if you ask me. Imagine the effort and resources you would need for the changes you propose ...

All the needed things already exist. It's just the issue of changing a few nanos, and then adding a few (the auras). Changing the item database isn't that difficult task, the difficult task is deciding what is balencing and what is not, and deciding which to use. However, the reason why this nerf is "different" is that it isn't just changing a nano you can blitz for. It isn't just changing a weapon that you can blitz for. Many people soloed missions for weeks to get these things. It took our time and effort for us, they should use just a bit of effort for us.. don't you think?

I don't like nerfs either, but in some cases you have to cut down the tree that it survives!

And, my dear MegaChris - your ideas include nerfs as well. Why the hell should my (our; Engi & Soldier) reflection nanos be nerfed, just that you can keep your (hard earned) bracers? Eh?

Yes, it does include nerfs. However, the nerfs are much milder (can't have RRFE during PvP unless you are a soldier, can't have RRFE during solo missions, etc) However, it is a much more effective nerf than just changing the bracers to 7%. Yes, it takes a bit more effort than just changing the bracer %, but just because we are used to it, should we always let funcom take the easy route out?

~Chris

[Maximilian]

Ok, let's get this straight. Please correct me on the numbers, I don't have the experience, just some data.

What exactly do you mean with 'some professions'?

I did some research in Auno's DB and came to the following:

- Any title level 6 character has (more or less good) access to the following items/nanos:

- TL6 bracers: 21% absorption and reflection (?), times two = 42%

- Reactive Reflective Field (Extended) [highest soldier reflect shield] 49%(!) absorption and 30% (?) reflection.

- Alternatively: Reactive Harmonic Cocoon [highest Engineer reflect shield] 25% absorption and 24 points (!) reflection

We add together, a fully equipped and buffed player would have 69 or 91% of reflective capacity. Means at max, less then 10% of the damage inflicted on him would pass through.

The only way to seriously damage such a player is reflected damage, because, to my knowledge, this damage is not reflectable -> you get it. So, back to the numbers, an optimally buffed character reflects 72% (?) of incoming damage back.

91% damage absorbed and 72% reflected - looks like sitting there and just wait until the opponent kills himself, a heal from time to time - that's it. Am I totally wrong?

This scenario is for sure not intended and not desirable. Looks a little bit like once you reached TL6 you are pretty darn save - come on, you can better.

I assume you had to really work hard for these bracers you have now (topic compensation), but FC learned in this respect. The change them all at once (should have done the same with the LLTS). And they don't discuss.

It is mean (I would be really mad about them), that once you have the best (PvP) items in game (not for discussion) they get nerfed, but, really, you knew that this would be coming.

Coming back to your approach:
Of course, they could do it, but I would guess, they don't have the manpower nor the time to do so. If I would be in charge for the decision, I most probabely would have done the same (don't cite me on that). Due to my personal experience and attitude with PvP I am not the optimal person to ask, but I'd say: These few pefectly equipped Power players will screw up more than they are worth for the game itself - so kill these bracers.
Actually I wouldn't say that, because it is as ignorant as the comments from the other side, but you see the tendency.
These bracers 'facilitate' high level play way to much (42% damage reduction is a lot) and that has to be stopped/slowed down.

In the end I am just a tiny number in big AO universe without any (major) impact on the flow of things.

And one thing for sure:

No, we won't allow FC to go the easy way!

So long,

Max(imilian)

[Devis]

I don't think they should nerf reflect bracers, but something has to be done, and I agree with the "self" reflects and the aura's that would be a good idea though if (which they won't) they don't nerf breacers .. they whould unerf the bracer spawning rate.

[Johnathgalt]

Originally posted by Maximilian
Ok, let's get this straight. Please correct me on the numbers, I don't have the experience, just some data.

. . .
- Reactive Reflective Field (Extended) [highest soldier reflect shield] 49%(!) absorption and 30% (?) reflection.

Not really. The first number (i.e. 49) is a raw damage number (not a percentage). So with RRFE running and no other bracers or damage sheilds; RRFE will inflict 49 points of damage on the attacker. It is not an absorbtion number. The second number (i.e. 30) is the percentage of damage deflected away from the RRFE buffed target. Not all of this reflected damage is reflected back to the attacker.

As a result someone with just RRFE running and two 21% bracers of the correct type would reflect away 72% of the damage and inflict a total of 91 points of damage on the attacker.

This is meant simply as a point of fact and not as commentary on your analysis (or that of any others in this thread).

[Maximilian]

Thanks Dr. No for your objective answer and the corrrections - not too common in this topic.

/me bows to Dr. No

/me slaps himself on the back of the head. Should have read more carefully, ol Max

Ok, let's look at the new numbers (what do we have learned)

- TL6 reflect bracers: 21% reflection and max 21 points of reflect damage.

- RRF(E): 30% reflection and max 48(49) points of relflected damage

- RHC: 24% reflect and max 25 points of reflected damage (not stackable with RRFE!)

An ideally equipped/buffed character would have 72%(66%) of reflection and inflict 90 or 91(67) points of reflected damage each time he is hit.

(Almost) Three fourth (two third) of incoming damage reflected - come on guys. Although I like the idea of the defense being stronger than the offense, but exactly where is the balance there? Without any major thinking, one can clearly see, that all professions with healing capabilities, that are anyway favored due to switch in damage rules in PvP, have a rather easy life.

That might explain, why I see that many docs with PvP titles.

All professions that primary rely on damage output are screwed, I would assume (please no discussion on that topic here). Even worse in PvM, because you have a much larger chance to determine the damage type before going into combat (switching bracers accordingly). And as far as I know, NPCs and MOBs do not stop attacking and wait until a nano is run out or change weapon type (some Cyborgs have two damage types, nasty guys).

But this is only part one of the calculation. Each hit inflicted on you returns 90/91(67) of damage. Nice boost if you ask me. And if you have an Engineer around this value might be increased by 61 points. So it is possible to reflect up to 152 points per incoming hit (theoretically, all NCU and aura flaws aside).

I can't judge if this of major help in a TL6 fight, but this damage goes through, no chance to avoid it. And every little helps.

To come back to the main question, should the bracers be nerfed or not: I can't say.

Yes:
- 72%(66%) sounds to much to me. This will screw up professions that are restricted to more or less one damage type and facilitate the life of healers extremly.
- It imbalances PvM, though possibly nobody would agree on that, but I guess, it is not intended (bah, I hate this word right now) that we neglect the majority of incoming damage and return a substantial part on the MOB itself without major problems. These bracers are 'normal' chest loot, everybody can get them. (I have some)

No:
- Everybody can get them. To have that additional protection you do not rely on connections and a large support (quests, special MOBs, etc.). So it is not 'unfair' for someone to have them and for others to not have them.
- It takes an enourmous ammount of time (and/or luck) to get a complete set, so that you have complete protection. That should be rewarded. (I know how rare they drop - I am doing missions for most of the time I am on)

Personal opinion:
Cut them down, but not that extrem. Maybe 7%, ok, but not unique. Besides all 'logic' arguing, why can't I wear two of them, if I have two arms?

Enough from me on that topic. Discussion welcome, flaming ignored.

So long,

Max(imilian)

[Warlock]

Mega you of all people should want to be able to cast your reflect on your bot as well as yourself. Since the bot isnt in you 'team' your aura suggestion doesnt compensate for this nerf.

You cannot seriously propose taking this away from an Engineer!