Will soldiers be getting their much needed luv patch before the booster?

[______________Sredni]

I love dueling other enforcers with my enforcer, I go out of my way to do so , other enforcers are a fun challenge to fight. And from my experience the 1he enforcers are the easiest to kill, wtih 1hb being harder, but still not as powerfull as 2hb users.

And when did I compare anything to ma's? Once again I simply stated that because a soldier's only valid weapons are 66/33 that ma's, enforcers (1hb/2hb), advents, fixers, agents, and traders would have higher attack ratings then soldiers. If anything I was comparing soldiers to ma's, not enforcers. Jeebus you're frikking paranoid arnt you?

Attack rating with my lvl 160 soldier - 950. If I had a weapon that used pure assault rifle I would have over 1k easy for attack. I still have a high attack rating yes, but I never said I didn't. I said that half the other proffs out there will have a higher attack rating using their chosen weapon vs a soldier with his. A 1he enforcer will probably have a little less attack rating then I. However a 2hb or 1hb enforcer *will* have more because they use 100% weapons. Why do you keep arguing about this?

I'd also interject the fact that using challenger any enforcer will have a higher attack rating then a soldier. I would if I wasn't aware of how useless challenger is to an enforcer at most levels, and so I don't count it as added attack rating.

I'm not drumming up enforcers as uber to make soldiers seem weak Phione, whatever you may be afraid of. I was simply stating a fact about attack ratings and how soldiers compare to a number of other proffs.

meh

[Beartwo]

Originally posted by Kaltark
---
In the perfect PvP world everyone should beat everyone equally. Soldiers are already the top PvP in everything but 1 on 1 solo conflicts. With bracer nerf next patch soldiers should be unbeatable unless they are teamed up upon
---

rofl there is no real "large scale" pvp conflict.

Camelot is "alpha them as they come through the door" and 2ho is zone in/root/killed. All (or 99%) of those soldiers in the list got their positions when UVC was not MA only and yes, 1:20 secs of 46% crit percentage was a lovely thing to behold.

no longer tho..

no longer

Small scale pvp to me is arena style duels, large scale is 2HO/Camelot where I have seen 30+ people on each side in camelot (mad lag) and 15-20 on each side in 2HO. It may not be a mega battle, but within AO`s limits to number of people in one zone its pretty big.

I also would like a phone number to your "cigarette" supplier, because you must be smoking something very strong to think that soldiers will own after this.

WE ARE NOT TOP of the PVP CHAIN!

Any healer can beat us hands down. Even with no bracers our dmg isnt high enough to stand up to traders and MA`s.

I regularly team with high lvl MA`s and I cant pull aggro off them unless I do a 10k FA. The same happens with high lvl enfs.

I really wish you would tell why you think soldiers are so uber, when just about every high level soldier left in the game is telling you we arent.
So far your posts have been sadly lacking in actual information about why soldiers would rule so.

[Arvec]

Multi-skill weapons (66/33) have more specials than single skill weapons. I think this is intended, as the lower attack rating is supplemented by the greater amount of special attacks.

Single-skill weapons currently usually do more regular attack damage, but multi-skill weapons usually have more specials, which add to damage. Thus a person with high weapon (AR/RE for example) and attack (fling, burst, etc.) skills with a multi-skill weapon should (SHOULD, not necessarily DOES) outdamage someone with a single-skill weapon with less specials.

[____________andertec]

Originally posted by Intrepid


In the booster in like 3 months large scale PvP will become a significant part of the game. Unless Fc screwd it up that is

And as for 99% of soldiers well i don't know about that atleast 3 if not more of those soldiers have got on the list since the crit nerf(3 weeks ago there were 10 soldiers now 13)

Uhm, so you think guild wars will be larger scale battles then Clan vs Omnis? I dont see how!

[_____________Kwangju]

All soldiers have is green weapon skills and a Total Mirror Shield nano. It is very hard for us to pull aggro off anyone, all our weapons do 1 point minimum damage, even the new Div 9.

[Phione]

Strendi, you've again showed a lack of knowledge for enforcer types and weapons. Firstly, at lvl 160 with maxed 1he/HW/200 implant/everything else, I have just a bit over 800 Attack rating, 830ish when fully buffed. yet my Byom does MORE base damage AND crit than Alloy staff at 1050 Attack rating, according to AG damage calculator.

IF you want to complain even more, why don't you go to AG and actually do some comparing between 67/33 weapons with lower attack and 100 weapons with higher attack... then tell me what you get...

[______________Sredni]

Originally posted by Newkr
Multi-skill weapons (66/33) have more specials than single skill weapons. I think this is intended, as the lower attack rating is supplemented by the greater amount of special attacks.

Single-skill weapons currently usually do more regular attack damage, but multi-skill weapons usually have more specials, which add to damage. Thus a person with high weapon (AR/RE for example) and attack (fling, burst, etc.) skills with a multi-skill weapon should (SHOULD, not necessarily DOES) outdamage someone with a single-skill weapon with less specials.

Faulty argument. A gun with special attacks shouldn't hit less hard because it has burst and fling. For the expenditure of extra ip in burst and flingshot a person using a gun with burst and flingshot should be able to do more damage then somone who has not spent extra ip to equip a gun with extra attacks.

And 1hb weapons arn't 66/33 but they still have fast attack/sneak ect .

[______________Sredni]

Originally posted by Phione
Strendi, you've again showed a lack of knowledge for enforcer types and weapons. Firstly, at lvl 160 with maxed 1he/HW/200 implant/everything else, I have just a bit over 800 Attack rating, 830ish when fully buffed. yet my Byom does MORE base damage AND crit than Alloy staff at 1050 Attack rating, according to AG damage calculator.

IF you want to complain even more, why don't you go to AG and actually do some comparing between 67/33 weapons with lower attack and 100 weapons with higher attack... then tell me what you get...

Bah phione, I've very carefully not flamed you and explained what I meant. And you continue to misenterpret me *shrug*. I have enough enforcer know how to rock at pvp, and pvm, once again I'll refrain from provoking you as you have tried to provoke me. My knowledge about what I stated is entirely correct: 2hb/1hb enforcers do have higher attack ratings then a soldier. I wasn't singeling enforcers out, wasn't saying they're uber, just showing which proffs do have higher attack ratings then the "Master of Ranged Combat".

I have corrected my initial statement twice now with the qualifyer that 1hb/2hb enforcers have higher attack ratings then soldiers, not 1he. But you continue harping on that point, may I ask why?

I'll state this one last time since this was the initial statement you started harping at me about.

Soldiers due to their 66/33 weapons have lower attack ratings then proffessions like MA's, Enforcers (1hb/2hb), fixers, advents, agents, and traders.

You can continue wandering around with your 1he enforcer arguments, but I wasn't including them in the first place because I consider them to be gimps (my apologies for being blunt, but until you get proper buffs, and weapons that arn't 66/33 I will continue to do so). I reached this conclusion not by playing with the latest version of a fatally flawed damage calculator, but by my own experience as a 2hb enforcer dueling 1he enforcers.


ps: why o why do people keep spelling my name srendi? I see that all the time . I suppose I should change my forum name to sherrman since I don't play SREDNI anymore anyways tho I guess .

[Quindillar]

I wouldn't go so far as calling it soldier love, but we are getting a few new goodies and one piece of totally utter rubbish in 14.5



Phat lewt:

Soldier only armor:

Notum Infused Kevlar Armor



Soldier only weapons:

Nophex Plasma Destroyer I & II (ql 199 & ql200)

Master of combustion (junk, POS, wouldn't touch it with a ten foot nerf-stick)



My only hope for this is that the soldier only armor won't be available to agents unless they keep going FP soldier to use, just as u did with the Clan-only "best soldier item ever" Kaehler sleeves. Want to use it? stay soldier. Someone might ask why anyone would use this armor, then check the pants. Adds 1 crit. My bet is that every agent out there is gonna get himself a pair of brand-new funky fresh soldier pants.



As i've posted in another thread (with the req & dmg details) about the Master of Combustion. It is total useless, I can't even use it, unless u throw a fat FA soldier only buff our way. The dmg isn't even any good unless the Fa has a recharge of like 10 secs. Why did u waste your time with this? Was this so important to implent in 14.5? I'd rather see u did all those pistol using advs out there a favor and fix inits on BBI's than making this item for us soldiers. I have 1 mill creds to the first soldier that can prove & show me how to use this Master of combustion, self buffed, without OE. If they add some fat new soldier buffs in 14.6 or later, then great! But why implent the weapon when the buff doesn't exsist?

To the guy that made the Nophex: Grats! Great job! Make more weapons like this! U deserve a raise! Employee of the month!

to the guy that made the Master of Combustion: Did u design the new opera in Oslo too? (for norwegians only, equally useless) :P



Just my 2 cents

[Crestfire]

I think her point was that attack rating doesn't really mean anything. With a lower attack rating you can easily outdamage others with a higher one. I've seen several 1HE enforcers own 1HB users, because the Dmg on 1HE weapons is quite a bit higher than 1HB weapons. And do you know why FC put higher Dmg on a Byom than an Alloy Staff ? Because it's a 66/33 weapon!

I know your attack rating is based on your attack skills and weapon Dmg, but you can't complain about your actual damage, by saying your attack rating is too low, and isn't that exactly what you are doing ? Or do you just want a higher attack rating, while keeping your actual damage the same ? :P

From my experiences doing millions of bs missions, soldier/MA teams are the fastest killing teams.

[Quindillar]

I haven't bothered reading all the posts here since this has turned into a 1hb/2hb vs. 1he enf discusion, so i don't know if anyone has posted this yet.
When u try to hit/shot someone/thing there is a skill check attack rating vs. evades (if i have understood this correctly). The higher attack rating u have, the better are your chances of getting in a hit. And u also crit more with a higher attack rating. I understand what u say about u doing same/better dmg with a 66/33 weapon. The point is getting in crits & not being evaded every other attack. (Team mission boss spaming u with evaded attack messages).

[thresholdrpg]

Originally posted by Quindillar

Phat lewt:
Soldier only armor:
Notum Infused Kevlar Armor

Soldier only weapons:
Nophex Plasma Destroyer I & II (ql 1-199 & ql200)
Master of combustion (junk, POS, wouldn't touch it with a ten foot nerf-stick)

Where can I read the stats on these items?

It is nice for them to add some soldier items, but since I know they are going to be a combination of boss only and uber-guild only (camped spawns), there's not much point in getting excited about them.

How about fixing the actual PROFESSION instead of adding a couple band aid items?

And if adding items is the best you can do, make them a common enough drop that soldiers can actually GET THEM, and make them available in ALL MISSIONS as mission rewards, drops, chest loot, etc.

Building a set of Notum Infused Kevlar Armor when you cannot even clicksaver for it sounds like an impossibility for any gamer without 100+ hours to spend per set.

[Quindillar]

Auno.org m8
He's updated the item db with the data from the test server. Btw the soldier armor is lvl 180 req for ql200 (again :/) So u should be able to get a set pretty quick. Alreasy have a full ql200 SO8 set with a lot of spare pieces.

[Phione]

You're the one kept misinterpret my point. I tried hard to point out that attack rating isn't EVERYTHING that determines your damage output. The weapon itself is an important factor.
By compare Alloy staff at 1050 with some most commonly used soldier guns (div 9) at your 950, and the result is that it's well balanced.

[______________Sredni]

But to a soldier attack rating *IS* everything. Our weapon skills are all we have and having a lower attack rating is a serious disadvantage to us. I read a thread somewhere where you have trouble fighting fixers phione, my enforcer with his 100% weapon doesn't get owned by smurphs. Attack rating lets you do more then miss/miss/hit/miss/hit/miss/miss/miss/hit on those hard to hit boss mobs. Higher attack rating means more crits, and with the crit buff nerfs you need all the help you can get for crits. Higher attack rating lets you fight ma's and actually hit them with their high evades and full defensive agg bar.

Saying that the soldier weapons are fine as 66/33 weapons because the 1he is in your experience is like comparing apples and oranges isn't it?

Attack rating determines crit chance and chance to hit.

But truly I don't see how your experience as a 1he melee user is applicable to soldiers with their weapons. I have yet to see a soldier who was pleased with having 66/33 weapons as you seem to be phione. Are you still going to insist that those weapons are superior for soldiers as well as enforcers, due to your experience with your enforcer?

I'm done arguing. meh
------------------------------------


The nophex is pretty cool, does massive damage. But yeah the master of combustion is junk . Coldstrike figured out that to equip it at lvl 200 w/kaehlar sleeves + expertise, you would still need a +170 fa buff to do so . Maby with bright and faded fa clusters + whatever the highest ql fa buff is, but you'll probably need the bright as a burst cluster cause of the high burst reqs on new guns. And no soldier would be willing to put in their shining fa cluster eh .

[Crestfire]

I know higher attack rating let's you hit more and do more crits, I was just trying to point you that you sacrifice attack rating for higher Dmg on your gun. Besides 950 to 1020 (comparing you with a 1HB enf at 160) really isn't that HUGE difference.

Why are you comparing a 75 enf with a 160 enf ? Things change a bit over 85 levels, and Phione can beat Fixers just fine now :P

[Thehorseman]

Originally posted by Quindillar

To the guy that made the Nophex: Grats! Great job! Make more weapons like this! U deserve a raise! Employee of the month!

to the guy that made the Master of Combustion: Did u design the new opera in Oslo too? (for norwegians only, equally useless) :P



Just my 2 cents

What's really, really funny is that I remember reading a post from Cz or Cosmik concerning development of new weapons and items and what I gather is there's only one guy that does weapons, so the solution, Quin, is to slap him around for the MoC, then buy him a few drinks for the nophex.

edit:
Just to keep this on topic for Nothinman (I know, it gets hard to follow things when you're old), while this patch does not exactly constitute a love patch by any stretch of the imagination, it does see to be heading towards some pleasant fondling.

[binaural]

http://members.shaw.ca/mike81/stayontopicbabyseal.jpg

[______________Sredni]

Originally posted by Crestfall
I know higher attack rating let's you hit more and do more crits, I was just trying to point you that you sacrifice attack rating for higher Dmg on your gun. Besides 950 to 1020 (comparing you with a 1HB enf at 160) really isn't that HUGE difference.

Why are you comparing a 75 enf with a 160 enf ? Things change a bit over 85 levels, and Phione can beat Fixers just fine now :P

But it's more attack rating isn't it? I said that soldiers have less then a number of other proffs, and I am correct. I'm not comparing my 75 enf with a 160 enf, after phione told me to stfu about enforcers cause I have no knowledge I explained where my knowledge came from.

And really, does the nova do more damage because it's 66/33? I don't think so, compare away to something like... the x-3. Or you can take a clearer example, compare a heavy gamma beamer and a vektor nd dragon shotgun. The HGB is 66/33, and the Vektor is 100%, but they have almost the exact same damage and speed. The HGB gains nothing for being 66/33.

[__________Lucid Flow]

By the way i'de like to mention that Attack Rating has nothing to do with the 66/33 weapons for a Soldier, but rather MORE to do with your Implant setup. The fact that Soldiers MUST have their Shining Head Slot as MATTER CREATION and not Ranged Energy effects it GREATLY, and I can prove it.

Given MAX Skills at level 200 for a Solitus Enforcer and Solitus Soldier, this is what you would come up with if you were FULLY implanted for your weapons only.

Any any Given 1hb/2hb Enforcer at level 200 will have 1033 attack rating *if* they have NOTHING buffing their base abilities (this can vary so much that I just opted to leave it be). This is Maxed 1hb/2hb skill, Expertise, q200 Implants and Brutal Thug. I won't add the Challenger Line simply because it's a temporary buff.

Any given Soldier that uses Assault Rifle/Ranged Energy fully implanted for both of these will have an effective Attack Rating of *ROUGHLY* 1070. This is including Max skill at Level 200, q200 Implants, Assault Rifle and RE Expertise, AR and RE Mastery, Automatic Targeting and Total Focus, all long term buffs.

And you say Soldiers have Attack rating problems? They can buff their MAIN attack Skills +130-140 to each skill AND get an extra 23 attack rating from a buff. An Enforcer can get +87 to his main attack skill. Enforcers can temporarily increase their skills by 197, yes but that also has disadvantages.

But here is the BALANCE point. Enforcers can get a rough Max of 10k HP fully buffed up even with Mongo. They can TEMPORARILY have more attack rating then a Soldier. Any given Soldier can get about 7k HP Fully buffed up, but can TEMPORARILY get 4x as much use from their HP effectively giving them 28,000 life for a short amount of time.

That is the trade off.