Proposal for the Unified Clan Nation!!!

[steelyglint]

Actually Twistshot, i dont think you do Welcome words of opposition to be blunt.

This exact proposal, word for word was put up in the CoT gridfeeds for discussion. i quite clearly stated several reasons as to why i did not think it would work, proposed a far less complicated, more open and one that was safer from abuse. as did several other people, who wernt TBC or Assembly for that matter. We got the Canned "We'll take your proposals and modifications into consideration" reply.

And Golly jeeze, here it is, now in these Gridfeed, Not a single word changed, no one's ideas have been taken into consideration, or have you changed the structure of the proposal to deal with any concerns with transpancy, possible abuse ect ect ect. And the people who have put up opposition have been badly attacked, our guilds insulted for really no reason aside from disagreeing with the proposal.

For those who wish to check out the original posts, can check it out here.
http://www.counciloftruth.org/forums...p?topic=1045.0

Funny how we can have a civilized discussion on one thread, and be attacked on another about the same subject.

(and still do not see what attacking towers has to do with the COT internal politics)

Xenoclast "Steelyglint" Arai

Captain of The Black Company

[emmies]

(PR-PvP CAN work you just have to be willing to put some effort into it, that being the case Im going over some of the info that I still have from successful rp-pvp groups I have been in on other MMO and writing an guide for it much like I did for PR in the new arivals and atlantean life sections)

((perhaps its me, but considering all the previous post it looks to me like most people arent really waiting for PVP within RP. as far as i know Rp in AO have gone good for 5 years without pvp. there are so much more ways to "die" in rp style that have not been used yet, why not try those first? in my opinion i like it how it is now, without PVP, with pvp it would mean i need lots of cash and lots of twinking, two things im not really fond of or have. I didnt joined the NLF without reason, the most important thing about it is, i dont need miljons of cash to hurt someone, im just a gimped level 10 MA yet still capable of bringing pain in someones life with PVP i and about 80% of the NLF would need a party or two just to get rid of a twinked enfo... withour PVP ill just kick him in the shims or pretend to shoot a bullet trhu her head.

Twistshot, in my opnion i think you should let this PVP thing rest a bit, we/they are not ready for it right now and it only causes stress and bad moods among the rp orgs. we, RP-ers, are a minority as you or kabulla said before 25 % or maybe even less of the complete AO community. lets not waste this wonderfull community we have here (i never seen in any other game a community like this before) but perhaps we could find another way for combat in RP?.))

[Twistshot]

Actually Twistshot, i dont think you do Welcome words of opposition to be blunt.

This exact proposal, word for word was put up in the CoT gridfeeds for discussion.

You have to remember something, Untill Xauns assassination she was the the one working on this, not me, when she was killed and vanished she took with her all the changes that might have gone into this.

I am not a law student or a political genious or what have you, I can see the merits in this and in the replys it got on the CoT forums, however I am having trouble in working them out into a usable format. I have asked several times, and several people, that if they wish to assist in working on this to contact me however things have kept coming up that have prevented a big sit down to go over this and beging building up something more usable. (like my trying to find a new job) Also there have been other issues that have come up that have taken alot of my attention as well.

UCN Questions concerns and suggestions go here

[Senggum]

((( This is the last thing I plan to say. I personally PvP every day and it does not take billions of dollars to have fun with it just a little knowledge and some practice. If you don't believe me I can show you Fixietrox (my lvl160 fixer) he has been wearing the same equipment since lvl90 minus his guns and can hold his own faily well against high dollar twinks. Thats not saying I don't die, I do and quite frequiently but, I have one hell of a time doing it. So don't give me the BS that you don't have the creds to PvP cause as far as I see it it doesn't cost anything. You don't have to be uber to have fun.)))

[Syreee]

(( That depends a lot on your profession too. I PvP regularly too, and am hardly twinked. I only have IP in NR, Shotgun, and AS to use a onehander. I hold out fairly well because I don't get hit too easily. Other profession could have a much harder time surviving because they'll get hit a lot. And unless you'll always have help from other to take someone down, you won't manage to get too many people down before they either flee or kill you yourself.

That said, not everyone wants to PvP either. Nor gimp their PvM setup to be able to PvP. So while PvP can be fun with RP, it's not needed. And as long as PvP remains as imbalanced as it is right now, I'd rather not see it be used too often in RP, because only those with a well set-up character would win all the time then.

So yeah, while it can be fun to some, not everyone will think of it that way. So please stop pushing people into PvP and RP together, and let them PvP if they want to, but don't blame them if they don't. ))

[emmies]

((kabulla i dont need PVP to have fun ))

[Stillian]

(( PvP and RP don't seem to mix. You can love and take part in both, god knows I do, but the two...'cultures'...don't compute ))

[Salvena]

As a ranking Lieutenant with The Black COmpany for a while now, I feel compelled to add a few points here.

Where do I get my money from? I get mine from alot of dead Omni employees whom have stood between myself and my objective. I usually also sell their stuff... did you need reciepts? I can't promise anything, though... This Cyberdeck gizmo is great for holding offensive Nano Programs, but doesn't really sport a addressbook or calendar. Maybe that will come with Specialization Five. I will make a note to pass to the Professionals Guild in Jobe...

Anyway, I didn't know the Clans had an accounting division.... or performed Audits, for that matter... I assumed they would be busy, you know... killing Omni transgressors to the freedom of all Clan peoples.

To be frank - No, I don not get my money from notum sales. I don't have a head for business, and prefer to shed my blood over something a little less trivial. You know? Freedom? Liberty and he access to free enterprise? Not all of this has to revolve around pulling notum from the ground, you know.

Considering you're trying to set up a... That's a government, right? Some kind of structured administrative force that does.... what, exactly? You install a Presidential Candidate, you get people to like him and check his name on the little ballot and those little checks mount up into a bigger pile than all the checks for the other guys, and he gets a new Office in Tir or Old Athen and a comfy chair... and what? Sits on his duff and makes policy? Policy that accomplishes what?

All Clans have one thing in common. We don't like Omni-Tek.

And so long as the ICC backs their sole rights to Rubi-Ka, the concept of setting up a government in their cafeteria is pretty lame-duck. Sure, it sounds nice, and might even put a crimp in serving the refried beans for lunch - but ultimately, it's a toothless motion to set up an opressive power system.

We need to get rid of the current opressive power system, not set up a new one. The Council of Time seems a rather rudimentary system designed to allocate efforts towards that very goal, by means of diplomacy or force. Does it work?

I don't know. We haven't won or lost the war yet.

Just my thoughts.

((OOC:

Oh, please... I have been roleplaying longer than some people have been alive, and I will impart on you a little wisdom I have picked up in this time;

1) Factions !=PvP: The game has a built in faction system, and two players play for one side and the other. Does this mean they must fight? Don't be stupid. It's always up to the players, and it's actually a sigh of good roleplaying if they are willing to be flexible and ensure that everyone playing is having a good time. Animosity is fun, and the banter that results frmo such groups is really quite fun - but come on. Not all of us are playing the game to pwn the other guy.

2) Taking the shot does not legitimize you making your own: Do you know how puerile it is to say 'Well, we don't take the cheap shots personally, so we are entitled to make our own!'? If you don't, I think you need to think on it for a bit... Or find out what puerile means.))

[Nevver]

((2) Taking the shot does not legitimize you making your own: DO you know how purile it is to say 'Well, we don't take the cheap shots personally, so we are entitled to make our own!'? If you don't, I think you need to think on it for a bit... Or find out what purile means.))

((Dictionary.com: purile
Google: purile

If you're going to challenge people's vocabulary, at least know how to spell the word you're assuming they don't know.))

[Salvena]

((Dictionary.com: purile
Google: purile

If you're going to challenge people's vocabulary, at least know how to spell the word you're assuming they don't know.))

((Haha!! Busted! That'll teach me to post at 5am...

Puerile. My sincere apologies. ))

[Nevver]

((Haha!! Busted! That'll teach me to post at 5am...

Puerile. My sincere apologies. ))

((Hee hee! I've posted too early in the morning and goofed too many times to do that anymore. I learned my lesson. ))

[Twistshot]

Considering you're trying to set up a... That's a government, right? Some kind of structured administrative force that does.... what, exactly? You install a Presidential Candidate, you get people to like him and check his name on the little ballot and those little checks mount up into a bigger pile than allthe checks for the other guys, and he gets a new Office in Tir or Old Athen and a comfy chair... and what? Sits on his duff and makes policy? Policy that accomplishes what?

Well, for one it is not just a presidential candidate, it would be to easy for him or her to abuse the position thus we are going to try to put in a system that makes sure that the clans, as a whole, get their voices heard on a larger scale.

Right now the majority of what the clans possess or produce comes from, in one for or another, Omni-Tek. Either from knocking off designes or out right steeling them.

If we are going to be able to continue competing with Omni-Tek Rubi-Ka Division we are going to need to develop a trade system with other parties to get a larger influx of goods, materials and money. Also, there is less than 5 decades on the lease, it is unlikely that ICC will seriously consider bids from dozens of clan factions as potintial owners or leasers. Unless we want to be fighting another company that may be even worse than OT we are going to have to get the legal rights to the planet.

We have to ship raw notum off planet via Omni-Tek, what about products that use notum? There are several types of products that use notum in them, armor, weapons, nano crystals, nano rechargers and a host of other products that we lack the means to produce on a large enough scale in order to provide it as a marketable product.

Other companies may have developed different methods of mining that we do not have access to that are less invasive than the systems we have pirated off of OT, methods that may reduce or eliminate the long term threat to nanomage survival.

All of the clans deserve to have their voices hear, and while the CoT has many merits, the way it is now those voices go unheard for the greater part. This is the primary reason Xaun first proposed this idea, to give all the clans, regardless of their ideals, a measure of common ground.

The freedom to vote.

[Nevver]

I'm glad to see that at least one Clanner is willing to admit what the Clans are really about: Stealing from Omni-Tek in order to muscle in and take over the planet to make a profit for themselves. You've learned from us very well and I'm sure your "government" will be a much better alternative to Omni-Tek.

[Twistshot]

Considering the fact that OT will not sell to us on any level with out ICC threatoning to shorten the lease even farther, we are often left with little choice in the matter.

[Nevver]

Why in the world would Omni-Tek be willing to sell products to people who would use those products to try and run the corporation off of the planet for the purpose of taking over it's business?

You know, you Clanners really are something! You yell and scream about freedom yet you want Omni-Tek to hold your hands for you. Want to make something of yourselves? Go out there and do it for yourselves and quit leeching off of that which you claim keeps you down!

[Twistshot]

Why would OT leave so many Atrox's burried alive?

[Nevver]

What does that have to do with you wanting Omni-Tek to sell you supplies to kill it and take over the planet?

Oh! Right! That's the default comeback for everything that you don't like about Omni-Tek or for when you have no excuse.

[Twistshot]

Actually I think you may have missed a major part of my original statement if you think that I only ment weapons tech.

There are several examples of non combat gear that is not released to anyone outside of OT.

Medical suits
Technical Libraries
Terraforming equipment
Notum Research
Gentic Testing data as it pertains to medical needs
Insurance tech, I might remind you that while the terminals are wide spread you maintain the core system.

These are just a few.

[Nevver]

Medical suits
We should aid your wounded and strengthen your armies so you can attack us?

Technical Libraries
Do your own research and quit copying from our test papers.

Terraforming equipment
Our lease, our planet. Want to do some terraforming? Go get your own land and build your own machines.

Notum Research
Again, do your own research and quit copying from our test papers.

Gentic Testing data as it pertains to medical needs
See "Medical suits," "Technical Libraries" and "Notum Research."

Insurance tech, I might remind you that while the terminals are wide spread you maintain the core system.
See all of the above. The Clans already have more access than they should.

Basically, you want Omni-Tek to support your goals of destroying it. If you want something, go out there and do your own work. Don't expect the corporation to carry you; if you want the benefits of Omni-Tek, go fill out an employment application.

[Twistshot]

Actually, it is stuff like that and attitudes like that that help prepetuate the conflict.

However given the conflict, it allows OT to charge much higher than it normaly could for notum, citing instability of the region, as the reason behind the massive inflation of price.

Also they can make a higher profit off of weapons tech due to the fact it is "battle tested under the harshest conditions"

And let us not forget that this conflict alows you to cycle troops threw to get them battle hardened giving OT forces over all a higher rate of combat capabilities making them, soilder for soilder, more effective than other corperations troops.

Right now, war is still more profitable than peace for OT, and THAT is the reason why. The bottom line, profit vs loss.