Social changes are coming to Rubi-Ka

[Daddysgirl]

The booster pack that FC is about to release is about to change the social dynamics of AO. I'm not sure if any of us realize the full impact of these changes. I have had some thoughts on the this matter, and I would like to share them with you. But first, a disclaimer.

DISCLAIMER: I do not endorse nor denounce the booster pack. The following are my thoughts and opinions on the things to come as a result of it. I do not denounce anyone's playstyle. If you have fun, then all is good. The only playstyle I do denounce are those people who like to have fun at the expense of other's personal feelings. This does not necessarily include killing other characters, as PvP is a part of the game.

With that having been said:

The booster pack is not for the casual gamer nor the single player (those not in a guild). Since the major defense of one's land is these "towers" that a player constructs, and these towers have defense attributes based on the power of the player (or guild, if its a guild tower), single player towers will be incredibly weak and easy prey by comparison to org towers. So if an org wants to move in or a group of high levels are bored, a single player's tower is in a great deal of jeopardy. (In what I could find, there was not much talk about single player towers. All the notes talk about mainly are org towers. If I have made assumptions in my logic that are false, please post notes.)

Since the single player cannot hold land compared to guilds, I will now focus on them. If FC wanted conflict, they're about to get it. However, unless they have taken some precautions, they are about to get conflict they may not have wanted. Depending on the zones you are allowed to set up mines and towers, they have just sparked guild wars. If towers can be set up in mayhem zones, you will have guilds of the same faction attacking each other. This will cause even more friction and name calling back in faction cities, as you are more likely to run into opposing guild members of your own faction there. Also, guilds will be on recruitment drives, especially when it comes to characters that are already high level. These characters are about to be given incredibly special treatment, and may even be able to get away with more by threatening to leave the org. Guilds will fight over these members, which will undoubtably lead to name-calling and backstabbing (and probably some ganking--i.e. killing). It will also cause resentment on the org's part to any characters that do leave it.

What does this also mean? Well, it means that the roleplaying orgs will not have towers either. These orgs are usually small. Some (like Omni-Pol) have a high average level, but very few members. They will still suffer because the towers gain bonuses based on all members of an org. So, the towers favor large, high-level orgs. This means a lot of orgs may recruit low level characters and power-level them (a great deal for the low level!). Though, there will be some resentment and vendettas if the newly power-leveled character then runs off, leaving the guild.

Now that the roleplaying orgs are out of the running, let's focus on a change in how guilds will operate. First, there will be large recruitment drives. The enticements for these drives will vary depend on the level of the prospective member. They may range from free power-leveling for lowbies, to bribes and rank for high level characters. FC will have also driven up the price on EBay for the illegal sale of accounts with high level characters. Lastly, and I know some of you have already thought of this, there are alts. Each AO account can have 8 characters, which means people in guild will work up one character, start an alt which then joins the guild, and power-level the alt up. This means that a guild with only 10 players could still have 80 resonably high level characters in the guild. Since its all about numbers and level, this will probably become the standard for those guilds who wish to compete.

Again, I neither denounce nor endorse the booster pack. I'm just stating my opinion on what the future has in store. Some people are really looking forward to the pack and the exciting combat it brings. More power to them. I also know for a great many it will be a source of constant frustation, as their tower is destroyed again and again. If you have any constructive and insightful thoughts on this subject, please post them.

[________________Ybbo]

In my opinon adding anything to the game is good. I like to see change. Though you are right that uber orgs will have more power, they should. Just like Republicans having more power than the reform party, they represent more peoples. No matter what changes they make I will be anxious to see how this turns out.

[Skymarshal]

I am happy to see any advantage to being over level 150 (my definition of high level)

These characters are about to be given incredibly special treatment...

[Daddysgirl]

There is at least a few other thoughts I have had in the last couple of days. No one has mentioned whether or not the towers and controllers will be worth any experience to destroy. I can see this going either way. Since destroying them allows you to set up your own mine in the area, FC may feel that this is enough reward and all towers con grey. On the other hand, these towers will take a coordinated assault to take down (maybe, details have been sketchy at best) so they maybe worth a lot of experience. Which means these sites may end up camped by high levels for the experience.

The other thing I forgot to mention: the bored high level character(s). I know you've seen them. These are the people who attack their own faction guards or NPC traders out of sheer boredom. Well, finally FC has given them something to attack. I don't see a lot of them doing this, as it would actually require some effort on their part to go out and locate towers to attack (and these towers are only vulnerable to attack at certain times, but no info is available as to how often). But, the fact is there are players out there who think it's fun to bully other players. They may think it's worth their time to camp a site to attack the tower, destroying another player's time and effort because they get their jollys that way. Again, I do not really endorse this kind of play or attitude, but it does exist and we all have to live with it. Those who build towers should be aware of the risks, and if you build one (especially early on), you need to expect it to come under attack.

Since very little detail has been given out, I'm working in the dark here. It may sound like I'm against the expansion pack, I'm not. The bonuses that having a mine bring may be worth the effort. Only time can tell.

[Jynne]

I remember from the Dev Chat that Funcom is exploring ways to protect smaller organizations' towers and lower-level areas from being overrun repeatedly and reliably by larger ones, probably even making the structures of a weak organization immune to attack by a much stronger one. So I believe that there are plans for a system under which roleplay orgs, newbie orgs, 'small tight group of friends' orgs, etc, will benefit from some sort of protection against 'uber guilds.'

In fact, I think that 'uber guilds' may actually bear the brunt of the 'griefing' that will start around the towers. There are plenty of people who are jealous of the established power-house organizations, people who don't have orgs or whose orgs aren't building anything, and people who have personal grudges due to loot arguments, kill stealing, pvp, or mistreatment. I think the 'uber guild' towers will come under nearly constant seige by people of either side whose motivation is primarily, if not entirely, to hurt the 'uber guild' as much as they can.

[shadowbruiser]

I may be wrong but dont it kinda sound like fun? If in RL the world was like Rubi-Ka would it not be this way? Look at flicks like mad max and the postman and other sci-fi holocost movies could you not see it be that way? Also, would it not mean more to have other guilds as alies and would it not make more of a realistic scenario for things like the current situation with the CoT and CoS?
Anyways as normal thats just my opinion however worthless or meaningfull

[Daddysgirl]

I hadn't heard that towers of smaller orgs or individuals were going to be protected from attack. If they are, I'm sure the "uber" orgs will be crying and whining as to way they can't attack these towers and how much Funcom "sucks" for making that decision. If this is true, you may have "uber" orgs splitting into smaller orgs to keep their towers from attack. Again, I'm not working with much information here, only what was released in FC's initial statement. I'd be interested in any more information as it comes out, since it will have some effect one everyone playing (and how they play) the game.

[Resetgun]

I am most likely going to buy booster, but I don't have any high hopes to get huge advantages to my character (I am neutral, and I don't have currently guild). For me, land control is "nice feature, maybe I will try it someday" thing. I am more intrested from other features than land control (better sound, graphics, etc.).

I don't think that land control is going to be huge thing for roleplayers and roleplaying guilds. Roleplayers really don't care much about their level or character abilities (unless they really think that they role requires high abilities). Also roleplaying guilds are not so eager to recruit people, because they want quality people. Most of time when I am asking my roleplaying friends to join my team, their response is: "I am bored to leveling", "I have figured out that leveling isn't necessary" or both.

[Oliewabie]

Possible solution to protect smaller guilds could be the following:

Attack time windows:

(Attack time window = is time when your tower can be attacked)

A small guild (20 members) could set ,a s an example, its attack time window on Saturday from 20 GMT to 22 GMT.
(20 members is minimum 2 hours attack time window)

While a big guild will be forced to set a bigger minimum attack time window.
For instance a big guild will be forced to set mabey multiple attack time windows.

You could either set a minimum attack time window with also lesser bonusses or a max window (24/7) with max guild bonusses.

The minimum attack time window should be linked to the number of members of your guild.
This avoids guilds to up their numbers by members having six alts.
cuz this would actually penalise these guilds by being forced to set a large attack time window.

Also these attack time window make it possible for guilds to be able to defend their structures at a conviniant time and could solve the problem of different time zones in the favour of the defenders.

[Czarina]

Just a thought.. why can't there two different kinds of towers

Tower #1 ~~ PVP tower.... gives nice bonuses to guild members

Tower #2 ~~ Non-PvP tower... bonuses are greatly decreased or different from tower #1, but this tower is surrounded by a 75% zone... no conflict is allowed among sides in this area. This allows even the people who don't want to PvP to take part in the fun of owning land in AO

[XtroXtreme]

No reason what so ever, but it don´t fit into the new all must do the PvP vision.
I dubt that guild members not willing to help out defend those towers will be very welcomed in any guild. And FC had that stand against trade lvling, that it was not giving enough danger so it should not give that much. From that I doubt that there will be any other type of tower then those permanent guild towers and those temporal personal towers.

[Daddysgirl]

As Spook has pointed out, PvP is the new vision. FC is forcing the issue with the new expansion pack. Apparently, there was a lot of PvP a while ago, but it has died, and I can tell you why.

First off, I am not a PvP player, but I have many friends who are. The reason I don't PvP is not because I'm squeamish or because of equipment or profession imbalances. No, the reason I don't PvP is because of the people who do. Almost all of them are hyper-twinks. I'm sure you've seen them; characters who are 10th level in a full suit of Omni-Pol armor (ql 35) or people who can do 1000 hit points of damage in PvP at level 45 (remember, damage is reduced in PvP). Both of the above examples are things I have personally witnessed. My friends and I (and we were all around level 60 with a 123 enforcer) could only manage to get another friend into ql 40ish OP armor when she was level 25, and that was quite a feat. Also, I play a level 57 martial artist with implants I can barely fit into, and I only average 180 points per hit on mobs (about 1/2 in PvP from what I understand).

So, how do these people accomplish these amazing feats? I have no idea. Well, I have some idea. Almost all the players that I know who like to PvP have high level characters supporting their PvP alt. They use the high level characters to generate the money and equipment they hand to their alt (sometimes through multiple accounts), and then use buff after buff, and equipment that modifies their stats to squeeze into implants and belts that allow for more buffs to put on armor and equip weapons that are so high above their level, they have nothing to fear in solo or group missions. These are people who know the system inside and out an can use that knowledge to its fullest advantage.

But this is what the casual player, like me, or the newbie, which I still kind of am, are faced with. In PvP, we get "owned". We stand no chance because the PvP bar has been raised to the level of the hyper-twink. The hyper-twinks (and you know who you are) have no problem with this, because they are not the ones faced with the constant frustration of facing a reclaim terminal. Again, I do not denounce anyone's playstyle, the hyper-twinks are playing within the rules of the game. They've put in the time, they know the rules, so they have the kickass characters. I don't like being "owned" in PvP, so I simply don't do it.

But now, FC is planning to up the PvP quota. Again, I can simply not play the tower game (and probably won't, at least until I see how it works). But now, the hyper-twinks have the juicy targets they've been looking for. They've spent months, maybe longer, wanting more PvP (usually in the form of PvP EVERYWHERE, REGARDLESS OF LEVEL, if you read the forums), and now they will get it. Again, good for them.

What real changes will come? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Daddysgirl]

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that roleplaying orgs wouldn't want this booster because the booster is all about in-game abilities.

Wrong-O!

Did we forget that Omni-Pol is a roleplaying org? Yet they want to have bonuses to game abilities because, as part of their RPing, they fight a lot. I know of at least 3 or 4 "criminal" orgs that do a lot of dirty dealing, including "ganking". But, the orgs are still heavy into the roleplay. I myself belong to Devil's Advocate, which is an entertainment org based around having a good time and throwing parties. I'm sure most of us would love to have bonuses, and unlike some entertainment guilds, we actually have a larger number of people (proportionally) over level 75 (average level is about 56). I'm sure we'd love to own land (in fact, I'm sure at least a few members will buy the expansion and try it out). One of the most hardcore PvPer's I know is in my guild.

So, no, the booster is not just for leveling orgs, but they may be the only ones who can hold land.

[Jynne]

I'm a member of a roleplaying org of about 120 characters, Unity of the Rose. We have an average level of approximately 75, if I remember off the top of my head, which includes a significant number of characters between level 130 and 170, all of whom are fairly active and level on a regular basis.

We are roleplayers, and that means we are interested in Funcom's story for the game, we assimilate it into our character backgrounds, we try to get involved in it. That wouldn't be realistically possible if we couldn't manage to make a decent showing of ourselves toe-to-toe against the Masked Commandos (and we have gone toe-to-toe with them and other 'greenie' combat mobs several times).

We're overall very interested in the towers and we hope that they will enhance our roleplaying experiences by giving us a chance to interact politically with other organizations on a continuing basis, and maybe even provide us more opportunity for story interaction. Getting org bonuses from it would be nice. But whoever said we don't care about stats is right, but for the wrong reason. We don't care about stats because we play for fun as opposed to power. Because we put power second to having a good time, even if there weren't any bonuses to towers the odds are we would build some anyway!

[Daddysgirl]

I also feel sorry for the neutral guilds and characters who might try to build towers on Rubi-Ka. This is yet another thing they will probably get screwed with (as if being neutral wasn't bad enough already).

[Gentrash]

nutruals really don't have a hand in the ground control part
half my alt's are nutruals and ive looked at the factions list [what like three nuet guilds that might be able to hold ground] im going to get the pack and ep but i really dont think it will effect all the nerfted nuettrals out there unless fc has an ace up there sleeve for us [im hoping]


on the other hand we are only nutral since most of us have that "what tha heck" attatude maybe it will go in on the ground control part too[wonders]

[____________Mischler]

First off, I'm impressed at how intelligent and productive this thread is, it's got my vote for something to make sticky for a while. Thank you all for sharing your opinions in a way that is actualy worth reading.

Back to the original topic, RP dynamics. Lets face it, theres very little role playing out there in comparison to power leveling twinks. I personaly enjoy RP, and I think towers as I've heard described can benefit, or hurt RP. If all the guilds, leaders, and members were into RP'ing and knew the difference between OOC decisions and character decisions, then it would only help. All the conflicts would be legitiment and faction oriented. Omnis would back up Omnis, and Clans would back up Clans, and very few if any neutrals would ever have to worry about walking through a mayhem zone. (After all, both sides want to recruit them). However, this isn't reality. People let OOC related topics make and directly influence their decisions. Whichh isn't what a RPG is about (any LARPers in the house?). If I wanted to power game, I'd be playing quake 3. But some people enjoy power gaming in MMORPG's, and they pay their bill, so who am I to say they're wrong for it?

I personaly believe the Role Playing aspect of the game is something that only players (nope, not funcom) can control. Funcom can influence it, but thats the best they can do in any direction. the end decisions on how to handle every hurdle, confrontation, mob, personal disagreement, etc... is in the end ours, and ours alone.

Those are just my opinions, they're not meant to offend or pursuade anyone in any direction, just something I felt like sharing.

Later,
Mischler

[Beartwo]

Originally posted by Daddysgirl
As Spook has pointed out, PvP is the new vision. FC is forcing the issue with the new expansion pack. Apparently, there was a lot of PvP a while ago, but it has died, and I can tell you why.

So, how do these people accomplish these amazing feats? I have no idea. Well, I have some idea. Almost all the players that I know who like to PvP have high level characters supporting their PvP alt. They use the high level characters to generate the money and equipment they hand to their alt (sometimes through multiple accounts), and then use buff after buff, and equipment that modifies their stats to squeeze into implants and belts that allow for more buffs to put on armor and equip weapons that are so high above their level, they have nothing to fear in solo or group missions. These are people who know the system inside and out an can use that knowledge to its fullest advantage.

But this is what the casual player, like me, or the newbie, which I still kind of am, are faced with. In PvP, we get "owned". We stand no chance because the PvP bar has been raised to the level of the hyper-twink. The hyper-twinks (and you know who you are) have no problem with this, because they are not the ones faced with the constant frustration of facing a reclaim terminal. Again, I do not denounce anyone's playstyle, the hyper-twinks are playing within the rules of the game. They've put in the time, they know the rules, so they have the kickass characters. I don't like being "owned" in PvP, so I simply don't do it.

I edited your post a little for space, since I only wanted to comment on the "hyper-twink" bit.

The possibility of creating "hyper-twinks" on Rubi Ka is very limited compared to what it was. Some people may have characters created before the many patches adressing this issue, but most likely they have levelled them up and can no longer be considered twinks by any means.

There are only 2 professions who can massively twink at low levels. The Trader and Agent can do this due to the "bulk trader" nano which ups comp lit by 160. Making a twink that pvp`s well is all about having ncu`s.

Other professions can also twink, but not as extensively since they tend to be Over Equipped as soon as the buffs wear off and they have to start buffing for combat (no ncu room for both Essence of behemoth, hp buffs and all the weapon buffs)

My word of advice is look your potential opponent, is he/she wearing armor obviously higher than their lvl? (lvl 45 with Elite armor is a good indication). Are they wearing a tank or a web cloak... is their armor a full matching kit?

These can be an indication of the capabilities of the opponent. If you suspect that this toon is indeed a twink you can always say no to duelling with them.

As for agents and traders.... pre lvl 75, you are wise to stay away from them, they usually have major buffs running

[Jynne]

Mischler you bring up a good point. Funcom can only influence players in day-to-day gameplay, not control them. This goes for leveling play as well as for roleplay, for PvP and PvM. Funcom provides the game world, consisting of what we call 'content' (areas, mobiles, items) and rules (the game engine). Then, we play in it. Whatever we decide to do in this world, we can and will do, as long as the game engine allows for it and the content is there to support it. Ie, if you want to take over Tir, you can't, because the game mechanic isn't there to allow it. You can kill all the guards, but you can't turn the city to your faction. You also can't raid Dust Brigade headquarters. Not because the game mechanic wouldn't allow it, but because the content (ie, a DBHQ zone) isn't in the game (yet?).

Funcom wants to introduce a new mechanic into the game, a new set of rules, with the booster. They are also adding new content with it. The new mechanics and new content will enable us to interact with the world and with each other in new ways - but just like what we already have, what we do with the new rules and the new content is our collective choice. Unfortunately in any mass society, and an MMORPG is a mass society albeit a virtual one... in a mass society the collective choice is often the choice of the lowest common denominator. So, it's pretty reasonable to expect the worst behavior of the most juvenile griefers to be applied to the towers.

Hopefully Funcom will design the mechanics to mitigate against this, but every system can be 'worked' in various ways if you are moderately clever and less than perfectly ethical, both of which are hardly uncommon human characteristics. That's one of the questions we were exploring in this thread - not if people will grief towers, but who will grief whose towers, how, and why?

[Nealandbob]

As a Neutral, I really have no interest in a conflict(or PvP, for that matter) of ANY sort, no matter what FC tries to force us(well, me) into. However, the possibility of Neutral areas being overrun with Clan or Omni with the land control feature frightens me greatly. This can only serve to make life even MORE difficult for lower-level Neutrals, who have the most difficult time of all to begin with! If you really think Neutrals are "lazy"(as Simon whats-his-face said in a recent statement), I only have two words...........try it! To that end, I will do the utmost to persuade my Guild to build Towers. My focus is purely defensive however; it is in the best interest of ALL Neutrals for some sort of defense for our lands to be implemented. Newland is a horrendously(sp?) obvious target, as it is smack in the middle of Clan territory; yet Omni use the mission terms there far more frequently than their own. If Clan were to sieze control there, it would be a devastating blow to Omni. The same holds true if Omni were to take control of Newland, as they would have the proverbial toehold right in the center of the Clans, fully whompa and grid supported for large-scale attacks. My contention is that it is in the best interest of ALL sides for Neutral lands to remain that way........Neutral locations would also provide a place for Clan/Omni to come together for talks/negotiations; and as far as war-crimminal trials and the sort, what better place than a Neutral one, with Neutrals as the jury to ensure a(as much as possible) unbiased trial? One other point: even though Neutrals are only a very small percentage of the Rubi-Ka population, I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the possibility that Neutrals could be swayed to joining the OPPOSING faction(i.e. Clan overruns Newland, so Neutrals get pissed off at having their home taken away and join Omni........or vice versa). So, by seizing control of Neutral lands, you might only serve to make your enemy stronger. To reiterate: I believe it is in the best interest of ALL sides for Neutral lands to remain that way, and will be looking into the possibility of "defensive" alliances with Clan/Neutral/Omni to help keep it that way. Keep the conflict where it belongs........between Clan and Omni. I of course cannot speak for the views of other Neutrals; but for myself, I'd like to say just leave us alone. Trust me, it's better that way. I'm sorry if this post came off as rambling, and maybe a bit harsh at times......just trying to express my view.