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Thread: Neutrals are in trouble!

  1. #21

    Re: My views

    Boss Ross's statement essentially says to the neutrals 'choose. either you're with us or against us.'
    AARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I have heard that crappy line over ten thousand motherQ@#$!@#$ing times already!!!! What's the matter with you sided people? Can't you be more creative for a nanosecond?

    And it's exactly that kinda of retarded way of thinking that lead to this situation. Instead of being nice, trying to supply good arguments and all, BOTH SIDES SHOOT US. How do you think i'm going to respond???

    "Mmmm...... i've been ganked by both clanners and omni when i was doing my biz as usual.... I wonder who i'll choose....Omni has cool uniforms, but the clans have cuter looking chicks... that's it, i'm going clan."

    NO ! BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE! And they are both HOSTILE!

    We don't bother no one. Help with hunting down terrorists. We help with peace efforts. AND NOW YOU TELL US TO PICK A SIDE??? I spit in the face of anyone that's telling me i have to choose. And son, the MOMENT you start messing up with us, you are violating ICC orders, cuz like it or not, we too have a right to security and leading our lives in godamn peace.

    -----(start quote)-----
    The ICC reportedly fears the outbreak of another civil war, and has voiced concerns regarding the state of Rubi-Ka's neutral citizens, who are often caught between the warring factions. ICC regulations expressly state that all colonists and corporate employees ( officially, the ICC recognises neutrals as Omni-Tek employees ) have the right to security and peace, regardless of political viewpoint.
    ( chopped from http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...ccasembly.html )
    -----(end quote)-----

    So once again. Read the plugging post i linked earlier. absorb.
    I said absorb.

    Jujuwalker. Fixer. Neutral. It's intended.
    Last edited by President Juju; Aug 20th, 2002 at 14:53:20.
    --
    The nootie's infamous black joker, Jujuwalker :
    RP profile : http://www.ao-universe.com/tools.php...ion=show&id=74
    --

    La censure est la negation de l' esprit. (Censoring is the negation of thought) --Yvirnig
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    --
    QUOTE OF THE DAY : And remember : you minions SHOULDN'T BE THINKING!

  2. #22
    There're a whole bunch of elephants headed for a major rumble sometime soon, including Clanners, Omni, Sol, ICC and a bunch of other ones.

    I think us Neuts don't count as one of the elephants yet; but I get the feeling that, come Shadowlands, we will.

    We'll have a cool city (Jobe) all to ourselves. Arguably the coolest city in the game.

    And we'll have some power to back us up (I hope).

    And, maybe, we'll have the opportunity to make ourselves heard and influence the direction the universe is going in. I hope

    ok back to snoring.

  3. #23

    Unhappy Well...

    Unfortunately, the ICC can and probably will change their minds. That's what amendments are about.

    One of the saddest truths about the world (Rub-Ka and RL) is that treaties and agreements and constitutional rights work well when everyone involved is prepared to play by them or has the necessary force to back them up.

    But at the end of the day the person with the biggest stick makes the rules.

    The only hope for this changing is that everyone suddenly gets enlightened and educated and at the same time those people who make use of conflict for personal gain suddenly gain a conscience.

    Nice dream, and I really wish it would come to pass. But it ain't going to happen in my lifetime.

    I'm not asking any neutrals here to change sides, and since I respect a number of neutrals for their views and trust them for their candour I'm certainly not interested in asking anyone to change sides. Dr Tiny said to me (some time ago) that Neutrals are happy that way and trying to sway them one way or another is a futile exercise. I agreed with him then, and I agree with him now.

    Omni-Tek have the biggest stick. Maybe not in numbers represented on Rubi-Ka (I haven't checked the stats) but certainly in terms of military might that they can fesably bring to bear should Omni Prime decide that might is what is needed. Because of this, Omni-Tek make the rules. Or maybe its ICC or even SolB. I'm placing my money on Omni-Tek in this case, since they're so much bigger and wealthier than everyone else.

    So to put this very simply, here's how I see Boss Ross's statement:

    Q: Do you support Omni-Tek's total governance of Rubi-Ka, yes or no?

    If you answered yes, then you're a (now) member of Omni-Tek.

    If you answered no, then you're either currently a clanner or will be pretty darn soon.

    I'm honestly not plugging, not asking anyone to make a decision or in any way disrespecting the stance that Neutrals are *currently* taking. I'm simply observing the actions of Omni-Tek's leader and drawing conclusions on what these mean.

    I don't make the rules. I don't have a big stick.
    Crazynotion - Atrox Bureaucrat, RK1

    Formerly posted as Mechanita

  4. #24

    I am neutral upon this debate of neutrality

    I'd make a comment here, but that would require for me to choose a side on this debate , which I am generally opposed to doing.

  5. #25
    I don't think that anti-OT=Clan.

    The clans are the clans. I think the Dust Brigade is neutral. By the reasoning of Mechanita up there, they are Clan.

    Mutants attack Omni personelle all the time. So do the Cyborgs. I don't think that the Cyborgs are clan.

    If you are opposed to Omni-Tek, it does not make you a clanner in my eyes. I just makes you anti-OT. If you at the same time don't support the clans, then what are you? Not OT, not Clan = what?

    Someone gives me ten gajillion credits to do a job. I kill 25,000 omni-tek and 25,000 clan as service for that payment. Am I omni or clan?

  6. #26

    It's not what boss ross says...

    It's what the ICC deems. If everyone turns against omni-tek , omni will be destroyed. They don't have ressources to fiight the battles on several fronts. They tryed before, and the clanners were at the doors of omni-1.

    The real questions here are.....

    Do you consider yourself an omni-tek employee ? No
    Do you consider to be part of clan personnel? No
    Do you feel omni-tek is protecting your right to peace and security, regardless of your political views? Hell no.

    Neutrals are just that: NEUTRALS. They are not omni-tek employees. They are not clan affiliated. they are the " none of the above" people.

    (OCC: and frankly, FC can't deal with the fact the neutrals exist, prosper, and are well respected in the community. They are also pretty baffled to what they should do with us. The role of neutrals is one of the most commented articles they have made, and they are stuck, because they already have made a top ten. They acknowledged their messup and now they can't deal with us.)

    Sure omni-tek has the power. But they mess up, and the vultures will send invasion dropships on them. You see.... And i'll Offer you shelter like a good neutral would do....IF omni-tek corp messes up.

    They leave the neutrals alone and stop the BS, We'll be happy, the clanners will be happy, everybody will be happy. {PAnd then clanners and omni-tek can go back to shottifying themselves up.

    -Jujuwalker.
    --
    The nootie's infamous black joker, Jujuwalker :
    RP profile : http://www.ao-universe.com/tools.php...ion=show&id=74
    --

    La censure est la negation de l' esprit. (Censoring is the negation of thought) --Yvirnig
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    --
    QUOTE OF THE DAY : And remember : you minions SHOULDN'T BE THINKING!

  7. #27
    Jujuwalker, I don't think that anyone is going to leave us alone.

    It seems to me that pretty soon they will adopt an "if you're not with us you're against us" attitude.

    And I think we'll need a place to hide in, and stay safe from all the oppression and dangers. My bet is, we'll have to fight for that place.


    -----------------

    I am a neutral. I _choose_ not to fight. I do not wish to conquer, I do not wish to rule, I'm not interested in making money, in gaining power. I want to live my life, to explore the world and it's beauty, I wish to know the people and creatures around me.

    I value my freedom, my independence, my peace of mind and my time in this world.

    Tou can try to take from me what I value - but you'll do it at your own risk.

  8. #28

    Re: It's not what boss ross says...

    Originally posted by Mister_unknown
    (OCC: and frankly, FC can't deal with the fact the neutrals exist, prosper, and are well respected in the community. They are also pretty baffled to what they should do with us. The role of neutrals is one of the most commented articles they have made, and they are stuck, because they already have made a top ten. They acknowledged their messup and now they can't deal with us.)
    Can't say that I agree, sir. The neutrals are part of the plan, and we're not "stuck"! Pay careful attention to what the ICC is saying now that they've been granted emergency powers. They're worried about the neutrals getting caught in the middle of a war, and that's part of the (stated) reason why they're contemplating sending in more Peacekeepers to Rubi-Ka.

    While we won't know for sure what's going to happen until tomorrow, it's safe to say that the neutrals won't just be cannon-fodder.

    (Besides, I play a neutral character myself!)

    -Ragnar

  9. #29
    Originally posted by CharleyD
    We'll have a cool city (Jobe) all to ourselves. Arguably the coolest city in the game.
    Remember that, while Jobe remains unaffiliated with either the clans or Omni-Tek, and is thus, in RK terminology, "neutral", it's still accessible to anyone who wants to visit - clan, OT, or neutral. So you don't get to have it all to yourselves

    (And yes, it'll be the coolest city in the game!)

    By the way, Jobe's history is a little more complicated than you'd think, and the whole Shadowlands thing...

    ...but no, that would be telling.



    -Ragnar

  10. #30
    In my view, the discussion is not as simple as "if you don't like OT, you're clan." The entire issue revolves around the overriding goal of your faction.

    For example, the people of Jobe have a goal, which is to further knowledge and spiritual awareness through nanotechnology. That is a completely different goal than the Clans. If Omni came banging on their doors and they resisted, they would not be Clan, they would be a faction all their own.

    Using this example, I can completely understand the motives of many neutral guilds, such as Blade Corp or Circle G. They have clearly defined motives which lie outside the realm of Clan idealism.

    However, there is a large group of other neutrals pushing for "neutral rights" and a larger role of neutrals in the fate of the planet. These are very non-neutral standpoints. I do not see how your goal differs from that of some clans already out there, and this is the sticking point.

    You are calling for game-wide changes to the powers of neutrals and how they are treated, but you are forgetting that what you represent is not what neutrals were intended to be. You are threatening to bring politics, responsibility, and accountability to a side which was made specifically to avoid all these things.

    I...just...don't...get it.
    Clan fixer, Fourth Title

    Director of Information
    Analog Myth

  11. #31

    Unhappy

    Yup. Sad times indeed. We need to find/ open up a ghetto soon.
    --
    The nootie's infamous black joker, Jujuwalker :
    RP profile : http://www.ao-universe.com/tools.php...ion=show&id=74
    --

    La censure est la negation de l' esprit. (Censoring is the negation of thought) --Yvirnig
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    --
    QUOTE OF THE DAY : And remember : you minions SHOULDN'T BE THINKING!

  12. #32

    Re: Re: It's not what boss ross says...

    Originally posted by Ragnar

    Pay careful attention to what the ICC is saying now that they've been granted emergency powers. They're worried about the neutrals getting caught in the middle of a war, and that's part of the (stated) reason why they're contemplating sending in more Peacekeepers to Rubi-Ka.


    -Ragnar
    Hey Ragnar. nice to show up here. Belive it or not, i have a proposal in the neutral coalition meeting to do just that: Send an envoy to the ICC. Guess you should show up tonight at the meeting....

    Because more ICC for us = safer neutrals.
    --
    The nootie's infamous black joker, Jujuwalker :
    RP profile : http://www.ao-universe.com/tools.php...ion=show&id=74
    --

    La censure est la negation de l' esprit. (Censoring is the negation of thought) --Yvirnig
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    --
    QUOTE OF THE DAY : And remember : you minions SHOULDN'T BE THINKING!

  13. #33

    Re: Re: It's not what boss ross says...

    Originally posted by Ragnar


    Can't say that I agree, sir. The neutrals are part of the plan, and we're not "stuck"! Pay careful attention to what the ICC is saying now that they've been granted emergency powers. They're worried about the neutrals getting caught in the middle of a war, and that's part of the (stated) reason why they're contemplating sending in more Peacekeepers to Rubi-Ka.

    While we won't know for sure what's going to happen until tomorrow, it's safe to say that the neutrals won't just be cannon-fodder.

    (Besides, I play a neutral character myself!)

    -Ragnar
    So let me guess here Ragnar.

    1. The ICC declares that they are sending peacekeepers to all neutral towns and setting up a base of operations in newland.

    2. THis opens up a chance for Sol Banking company to creep in and reap the rewards of the war.

    3. In comes Jobe and shadowlands throwing a wrench into the whole way of thinking.

    Damn I bet this is how it goes. I am usually right about future developments. Taking bets of 10cr. on this happening.
    Wizard's First Rule, people are stupid.
    Wizard's Eigth Rule- Deserve Victory. -Terry Goodkind / Author

    My 100th post!

    I Am A: Chaotic Good Elf Ranger
    Find outWhat D&D Character Are You?

    S.H.Y.E.N.I.A.: Synthetic Hydraulic Youth Engineered for Nocturnal Infiltration and Assassination
    What Cyborg are you?

  14. #34

    Talking VIVA ICC!!!

    Yaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...d/iccvote.html


    Thank you Ragnard for pointing that out!!!!

    -Juju.
    --
    The nootie's infamous black joker, Jujuwalker :
    RP profile : http://www.ao-universe.com/tools.php...ion=show&id=74
    --

    La censure est la negation de l' esprit. (Censoring is the negation of thought) --Yvirnig
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    --
    QUOTE OF THE DAY : And remember : you minions SHOULDN'T BE THINKING!

  15. #35
    I'll take U up on that bet Shyienia

  16. #36

    the bet

    Belive me sista.... we won't be infiltrated by the SBC without us knowing about it. And you know by now i'm...vocal... about things.

    I'll bet drinks for a whole night in neuter's infamous Dj elektrica's parties.
    --
    The nootie's infamous black joker, Jujuwalker :
    RP profile : http://www.ao-universe.com/tools.php...ion=show&id=74
    --

    La censure est la negation de l' esprit. (Censoring is the negation of thought) --Yvirnig
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    --
    QUOTE OF THE DAY : And remember : you minions SHOULDN'T BE THINKING!

  17. #37

    Talking

    I, as a clan freedom fighter, welcome Peacekeepers to Newland! I think newland city has nearly become an Omni-tek city in recent months and would like to see this change. The neutrals should have protection in this conflict from the Machine's Cogs, from rogue clanners and from terrorists like the Dusters. Hopefully they will be able to accomplish what the CoT and Omni Pol has failed to do in destroying the terrorists.

    I want neutral citizens and new arrivals to our world to live without threat of being sucked into OUR conflict. If war comes, they can look at how and why its being fought, then make up their own minds about where, if anywhere, they should be involved.

    Take that, omni propaganda machine!
    Travesty
    martial arts has-been
    freedom fighter
    teen idol

    "Dont hate me because I'm beautiful. Hate me because Im sleeping with your girlfriend."

  18. #38

    Unhappy Re: My views

    Originally posted by Mechanita
    Luxxan is correct - if you're hell-bent on freedom and the right to do as you chose, then you're clan by default.
    -- Er? why? I'm not Clan I have no affiliation with them?

    Originally posted by Mechanita
    Neutrals are a conundrum in many respects. If you're supportive of Omni-Tek rule on Rubi-Ka in any way, then by rights you're a member of the Omni-Tek faction.
    [/B]
    -- I have no love for either side in this war (which is what it is, anyone saying other-wise now is delusional). I wish to have no part in it. I have my own fight thank you. I will defend myself and my home from either. So I take it if I defend it from a Omli I'm a Clanner and If I defend it from a Clanner I'm Omli?


    Originally posted by Mechanita
    If you think you're entitled to self-governance without Omni-Tek, then you're clan. Even if you have no gripe with Omni-Tek directly, a rather dated communique from Boss Ross pointed out that while independent government on Rubi-Ka was the objective, the time is not now.[/B]
    -- Why is the time not right? Or will it ever be?

    Originally posted by Mechanita
    Omni-Tek do not want and will brook no independent government. The neutrals have been left alone (well, not completely squashed into oblivion at any rate) because they represent a route to market with the Clans, and the idea of a neutral area is fantastic for any kind of covert war.[/B]
    -- A Neutral area is a good idea in any kind of war. See above and any history Books you can find.

    Originally posted by Mechanita
    The downside is that can be used against you as well. And in light of the increased pressure from Omni-Prime and ICC I can understand why Omni-Tek aren't interested in playing covert games anymore.[/B]
    -- Games? Ahhh so Mr Ross and Mr Radiman are playing Chess After all.

    Originally posted by Mechanita
    So it comes down to a choice. If you want to retain independent government then you're clan, even if you're happy with Omni-Tek on the proviso that they stay on their side of the fence. If you're happy to accept Omni-Tek security, protection and government then you're Omni-Tek, even if you're a proponent of free trade and a pacifist.[/B]
    -- See Above post

    Originally posted by Mechanita
    Boss Ross's statement essentially says to the neutrals 'choose. either you're with us or against us.'
    [/B]
    -- Boss Ross now come on even I have more respect than that!

    Originally posted by Mechanita
    As for Jobe, that's a rather special case. They don't officially work for OT but they're sympathetic to OT for the moment. If OT come in and claim them as OT staff, then one of two things will happen:
    1) They'll roll over without a fight, and thus become OT.
    2) They won't roll over without a fight, and thus become Clan.
    [/B]
    -- Ok, now i believe your totally wrong. I don’t think the powerful Citizen's of Jobe are a special case at all. And If I were a Clan or Omli leader, getting them on side would be my first goal, but I don’t think an Armoured Division is going to get in there. All out assault would mean Death to anyone, Clan or Omli. I don’t think they are Sympathetic to any one. Scientists and researchers rarelly are. They may one day like (if the wrong person takes command and not knowing there form of government its hard to say) to take over Rubi-Ka. Then Clan and Omli both better run for cover or Join up. At this time though I believe they work for money and "To see if I can change that Lead into Gold"- The Alchemist's wish (don’t take the Quote Literally any one with a brain can get the point)

    Originally posted by Mechanita
    This is the same for any neutral community, really. The only way I can see of staying neutral is the proviso that both sides continue to turn a blind eye to you and don't adopt a with/against policy. If either side does (and OT seem to be), then the moment you're under the spotlight you're making a choice.

    So yes, neutrals as they are have been dealt the short end of the stick. The extremely short end. And for those of you who will keep your neutrality as long as possible I salute your bravery. But it will take more than solidarity to be a recognised faction in the face of the coming political turmoil - especially as OT seem to be taking a 'with us / against us' policy.

    I can honestly see the day when OT issue an ultimatum to all neutrals saying something along the lines of 'you have 30 days to use an OT faction form, after which time you will be considered clan by default'. I think it'd blow, but I wouldn't be surprised. [/B]
    It will take Bravery to remain as we are. I thank you for the Salute and good luck to yourself Sir. To be honest I see the Ultimatum coming before that, I do. What I will do then I don’t know. But I will hold on for as long as I can. I cant speak for my fellow Neutrals. But I will hold on.

    Blackpagan
    NT

    Ps - I started this reply at 7:00pm gmt I stopped ate and when I got back to put it in 16 people had replied so my apologies for being a bit behind
    Last edited by Spiritdancer; Aug 21st, 2002 at 01:22:59.

  19. #39
    I don't know, but, somehow, the idea of fighting in order to have peace doesn't sit right with me.

    Meditate on this I must.

  20. #40

    They use nanotech for alchemy?



    Jobe is a special case because they've got OT by the short and curlies with regards to their nanotech research. If my reading is correct on the matter (which it quite likely isn't) then OT happily let them leave the company without delcaring war on them precisely for this reason. To use the existing metaphor: Omni-Tek are more than happy to maintain a connection precisely because of the Jobe citizens ability to turn lead into gold.

    Just to clarify my position (okay, I can't write very well) but at the moment (right now, as of posting) the neutral community isn't automatically Clan for not wanting to be Omni-Tek.

    However, if Omni-Tek points a big gun at neutrals and says 'either join us or die' then the neutrals are forced to make a decision real quick. Likewise if the Clans did the same then the neutrals are again forced into making a decision.

    Ross' statement appeared that they were preparing to do exactly that. The fact that the ICC are stepping in prevents Omni-Tek from being able to do this quite so easily, so the neutral position remains secure and viable for the time being.

    Now maybe I'm missing something here, but I figured that if you plan on fighting Omni-Tek in order to preserve your freedoms and right to self-government, then you're no longer neutral. You're taking a political stand (in this case against OT). Now again my reading may be flawed, but I thought that was the standpoint of the Clans; they don't all agree, they have their own agendas but they are united in their refusal to be governed or oppressed by Omni-Tek.

    If you're planning on fighting the Council of Truth to protect your right to self government that doesn't make you Omni-Tek. I'm aware of a number of clans that don't like the Council, and I'm willing to bet there are a few clans who can't stand each other either. I didn't think the Clans were a government body - more of a collection of individual groups sharing a common goal (opposition to Omni-Tek). If I'm wrong - and I often am - then please feel free to point out my error.

    And (in a completely OOC fashion): Yay for ICC! If they are indeed placing additional peacekeeping forces on Rubi-Ka, then that really helps prevent Omni-Tek from enforcing their 'you're ours or our enemy' standpoint. Which is a good thing for the overall politics of Rubi-Ka in general and the neutral communities in particular.

    My only advice on the matter: trust no-one! The ICC may well have ulterior motives...
    Crazynotion - Atrox Bureaucrat, RK1

    Formerly posted as Mechanita

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