Pricing for Tradeskills v3.0

[Susi]

Heh, meant 'fixed' prices of course

(or maybe fixers should have different pricing indeed...they are annoying enough to pvp against on BS that they should be paying extra

Naw, just a typo from my part. The pricing according to tools/skill numbers required is a good approach, yeah.

I just recently decided to start ignoring the trollage on the official forums and after years of playing AO start discussing things here on the official forums too...been looking through my profession forum topics now and at this thread the Tier pricing seemed a tad high, because of the reason I explained.

Then again, I fear my point of view might be a bit flawed because at 220 my approach to the profits from lower-lvl tradeskills is inevitably a bit slack, because my main income in tradeskills comes from high-end combines...perhaps to a mid-lvl engineer the buffing and item-swapping required for making Tier armors indeed justifies the current price level.

But yeah, about the FIXED pricing vs. tips...it would be interesting to hear other people's experiences on that topic, because I've for example noticed that working with tips gave me little to no profit at a lower lvl, but at 220 when I'm wearing expensive armor, people seem to realise 100k really doesn't help me much and thus have adjusted their tips accordingly, at least somewhat. I wouldn't want to start a fight between tskillers who use fixed prices and tskillers who prefer tips, but rather share experiences like 'do people constantly disagree with prices and go elsewhere', 'what kind of tips you expect' etc.

I was trying to see if there's a topic concerning that...I didn't find one but was a bit reluctant to start a new one without asking first, with all the snappy forum veterans around ready to post me all kinds of "*another thread of the same topic here*<---look there nuub stfu" comments.

[Forek]

Susi, I'm sure a search would bring up loads of debate over the ethics of charging, but pretty much, people tend to fall into three camps:

• People who will only tradeskill for friends and org members. Generally don't charge and most that I know will refuse tips too.
• People who work for tips and live with the fact that some people are generous and others are obnoxious arrogant idiots who think everyone owes them a debt of some sort
• People who charge, generally they charge based on this thread from what I can tell. They will get refused more often, but I assume they get paid better over all.

I personally fall between the first and second categories. If I work for friends I don't charge, also I don't expect big tips from anyone below about lvl200 (except if they're making things like high ql supple, etc). If someone over 200 tipped me 100k or just said ktnxbai, it has happened, for a big job, then they end up on my ignore list and I don't tradeskill for them again. tbh, even if they don't tip well and are polite, I'd probably tradeskill for them again. I guess, I have just accepted that whilst tradeskilling is nice to be able to do, it's not really a source of income and unless someone is rude to me, it's not much of a hastle to do it.

I can make more or less everything except top level AI armor, 5gem sabas or top ql jobe imps with just swapping over my armor (same as I need for pets) so it's not really too much of a pain for me.

[Forek]

Oh, as to the price of tier armor, I've found people generally tip nowhere near those prices, closer to ~1m for T3 and 100k for T1 (bear in mind, these are usually ~lvl100 players using T1 so not much cash).

Whilst I know T3 has reasonably high reqs (about the same as ql220 AI armor), it's not really a stretch for most high level tradeskillers, and most of the time, the customer only sees it as 2 clicks. I think most of the reason for the price before was based on the high value of the components which have no dropped significantly, so maybe the prices are a little high now.

[Berael]

I can certainly see dropping the prices on Tier armor, though not hugely, since the skill requirements are still pretty steep for the upper end versions. It really doesn't matter if people see that process as 2 clicks or if they think it will be easy for a high level tradeskiller, since the skill requirements remain the same for anybody.

As I say to a good deal of people: if you do not find my prices reasonable than go make your org engineer feel needed.

I'm also pretty sure there is not much of a discussion of tipping here though, since it tends to boil down to 'I always depend on the generosity of strangers' pretty fast.

[Berael]

Time once again to review prices here with a question:

Would you rather judge tradeskill prices by the skill and item requirements that the tradeskiller must have to complete the process or by the general perception of how much the process is worth?

[-Stage-]

Time once again to review prices here with a question:

Would you rather judge tradeskill prices by the skill and item requirements that the tradeskiller must have to complete the process or by the general perception of how much the process is worth?

"General perception" seems to imply the perception non-tradeskillers have of a processes "worth", and wtf would they know?

Personally I'd go by "difficulty", which would include skill requirements (since high skill reqs = item swaps for those of us who aren't tradeskill totems) and the number of components required to make the result (for example, making aruls is clicktastic and heavy on the inventory space, and thus deserves to cost more to combine). How time consuming a process is would be a good way to measure this.

Something else that recently occured to me in the course of my habitual bitching: failure to provide the appropriate items to create the desired result should incur a penalty! Every mismatched cluster, absent nano circuitry wire, wrong QL robot junk or ring that melts to gold instead of the required silver should result in an additional fee to reflect the inconvenience to the tradeskiller. I'm sure we've all had jobs take three times longer than they should have because the items handed to us were... well, wrong, and I'm equally sure that this kind of thing would be far less common if people thought that not checking to see if the components were right beforehand could somehow impact them, rather than merely annoying the poor shmuck who has to combine them.

Of course, I'm not actually enough of an arsehole to implement such a penalty scheme beyond making snarky comments, but damn would it be justified!

[Uaintseenme]

Cleaned up a bit and stickied, Keep this thread constructive please and I wont have to un-sticky it.

[IHaveHugeNick]

The proccess is worth as much , as much will take to make me do it. There is no other criteria. If something is harder for particular person to do - ie i have very little IP in EE and stuff that requires it gives me a lot of headeaches - its perfectly justified to charge more.

Luckily this isnt the open market or anything. Customer isnt the boss, we are.

If someone doesnt like my prices, i can tell him to GTFO and most scenarios, he'll come back to me anyway within half an hour claiming he borrowed the money.

[Uaintseenme]

If someone doesnt like my prices, i can tell him to GTFO and most scenarios, he'll come back to me anyway within half an hour claiming he borrowed the money.

At this point its advisable to add another Zero to the original quoted price.

[massu]

"Something else that recently occured to me in the course of my habitual bitching: failure to provide the appropriate items to create the desired result should incur a penalty!"

And again some people see it differently. I know it seems lazy ignorance at a time but usually its just an honest mistake.

Such thing mildly annoys me if Im in a hurry and just out of generosity decide to do the 2 clicks on the run and move on. When something is missing I just say so, give the stuff back and run on.

But if I have time I'll tell exactly what is missing/wrong ql, where/how to aquire it and if I have it in stock(like silver/robot parts/empty imps) then provide it for small fee. No need to yell your head off if the poor noob has brought carbon rich rock that is 2 ql too low for his nano program.

[aramsunat]

well i have never charged price for TS, I never will, but I refuse those jobs that require me to swap 2+ items

[Enginyr]

On my side i dont actualy "charge" people for tradeskill.
If it is just a single click to make it or if its a low lvl player i just tell them to "Go help someone else for paiement"

It is a bit different for high lvl players who can afford the stuff... i dont charge but i will accept tips from them.

If i have to make tweaking or reperking or complicate manipulation of my bod...ohh..sorry i got carried away again, what i mean is if i need to change my attributes or something to make the TS then i tell the guy what it will be and usualy i am rewarded with generous tips. If he doesnt tip... he should never ask me again for TS and never pass in front of me "flaged" hehe

[Uaintseenme]

I think those of you who dont charge are crazy, demanding unreasonably high Fee's for trade skills is one of the last great forms of entertainment we got in AO.
The only thing that could make it better is if i could SEE howmuch money my customer has so i can purposefully quote them a price 10 creds over what they currently had.

[Mereditche]

Few weeks ago I was in a friendly mood and decided to make some armor for someone. I said my price, which was off course to high. Anyway, few minutes later he is back, because he's inpatient and in reality my fee wasn't all that high. But right, engis should work for free, it's just a few clicks anyway, nothing more.

So he wants some AI armor and has everything needed even a 'pristine' bio-mat he thinks... or not. Being focused on a lot of stuff, and having 'lost' my arithmetic armor (lended it to someone who lost it for me... right), I need the city buffing machine. I ran to city. Use buffing machine and process the bio-mat... Aha, a type 5 ql 300, very usefull. Back to the guy, exchange for another type he has. Back to city, wait... wait...wait...lalalaaaaa... wait...wait some more... use TS machine. Aha a 'mutaded' ql300 which I cant use. Back to the guy and no payment for doing half of the process. Total time lost, 20 minutes.

A few simple clicks.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Strangely enough, these days, i only tradeskill for free. For free or not at all.

That of course means that 99,99% of population that isnt my friends or my org, is in the not at all category. I'm honestly just far to tired and grumpy to stand arguing with morons over couple of credits, unless someone is exceptionally nice and polite , my answer usually is 'gtfo , and i don't need your credits too'.

[zartosht]

A few simple clicks.

You can find out what the bio-mat is before using HQ machine.

[Enginyr]

The only thing that could make it better is if i could SEE howmuch money my customer has so i can purposefully quote them a price 10 creds over what they currently had.

Now THAT is deliciously evil :O)

[Mereditche]

You can find out what the bio-mat is before using HQ machine.

By clicking?

But like I said, I was in my stupid friendly mood that day. Luckily it doesnt happen often. You might want to suggest I should have checked the bio before running to HQ, but thats the whole problem. Everyone can be a moron and we engis need to solve their stupidity. You probably also expect me to check the ql's of every item; if he wants boots, even if he gave basic gloves; and ask if he'll still be there when you're return from city, or that his shedule is so filled that you'll have to wait for his return.

[Uaintseenme]

and ask if he'll still be there when you're return from city, or that his shedule is so filled that you'll have to wait for his return.

OK maybe im missing something here,,,

If the guy has vanished before i return, then his uber phats are now MINE.

[Mereditche]

OK maybe im missing something here,,,

If the guy has vanished before i return, then his uber phats are now MINE.

I mean he's not there but really close and will only take 1 min to return, and then you're standing there like a moron for 3 minutes for a stupid 2 million creds.