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Thread: The Neutral Manifesto

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyadach
    Many of our fellow neutrals now don't understand our history, or our hardships the early neutrals had to suffer. To be totally honest most just see us pretty much as a very free "faction" if you will, a simply and very comparible entity to Omni-Tek and the Clans. In the olden days though, that was very different. But things have changed over time, the ICC's arrival on Rubi-ka opened up such a huge ability for the neutral population to have equal rights like those of Omni and the Clans. And over time the original hardships have been forgotten. New neutral citizens who've come to Rubi-ka and joined the freedom of the neutral community don't really see the issues from the past, and many of the old timers (myself included) don't wish to loose our history. Add into this mix the huge range of differances of opinion on everything and we have the wide splits which form the mass of the neutral community these days.
    Ahhh.... the infamous great neutral split. *nods* i know about it all too well, wondering why things were weird when i finally escaped my cryoconfinement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyadach
    The neutral population is basically as has been said many times before, not just one element, its a wide variety of beliefs and ideals which for a huge range of "shades of grey". Its best to think of us as a grey nebula floating freely through space. We have our freedom, we go as we like, we interact with other bodies around us freely. But every partical which makes up this grey nebula is its own unique entity. Its own slightly different shade of grey. As a whole the nebula is "neutrality". But upon closer inspection we are just a huge collection of grey particals moving freely, each doing our own thing. Some shades are quiet similar to each others, some are much darker or much lighter.
    The shades of grey, while a very typical cyberpunker concept (that i use every day instead of the typical definitions of right or wrong), does fit the neutrals very nicely..... althought it would be hard to put that concept into a document as structures by yarko.

    One thing we agree tho... while i may be grey, it's not completely uniform grey. And that's the secret ingredients that make the neutrals what they are : United yet diverse as we are, we do have a tendency to stick together to improve our lot, a tradition that has been happening since the very beginnings ( remember the Borealis militia?).
    --
    The nootie's infamous black joker, Jujuwalker :
    RP profile : http://www.ao-universe.com/tools.php...ion=show&id=74
    --

    La censure est la negation de l' esprit. (Censoring is the negation of thought) --Yvirnig
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    --
    QUOTE OF THE DAY : And remember : you minions SHOULDN'T BE THINKING!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jujuwalker
    The shades of grey, while a very typical cyberpunker concept (that i use every day instead of the typical definitions of right or wrong), does fit the neutrals very nicely..... althought it would be hard to put that concept into a document as structures by yarko.
    I know. The last time I wrote anything about trying to decribe neutrality, although was something which some fellow neutrals agreed with, others utterly despised it as it boxed them into something they weren't. At that time, to be honest I might not of really given a rollerrats backside as it was just something I wrote. Now I don't know. Know idea why but I just feel you guys might be making the same mistakes others like myself have made before. And as such, partically due to your positions of somewhat authority it really would be better if you didn't make the same mistakes. And got it right...and in doing so got all neutrals behind them.

    I know you all mean well, but just go around Borealis and actually ask people. You might be surprised just how many actually saw this manifesto as not concerning them as its to do with Newland and they live in Borealis. It might of been titles the Neutral Manifesto, yet many see it as the Newland Manifesto. And as such is already being massively ignored. I understand totally what you wish to acheive, but just feel as it currently stands with the hostility which the Council is generating its on a head long collosion course with a line of gallows set up on Borealis Market Square. And no offense Juju, but if your hands are tied up you ain't gridding away that easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jujuwalker
    One thing we agree tho... while i may be grey, it's not completely uniform grey. And that's the secret ingredients that make the neutrals what they are : United yet diverse as we are, we do have a tendency to stick together to improve our lot, a tradition that has been happening since the very beginnings
    But thats the thing isn't it. In a document, if you are trying to unify what is Neutrality than it needs only to state those uniting of everyone factors without spanning into other things, no matter how much better they would be for the whole if everyone supported them.

    So what are our uniting factors? The biggest has to be by far our freedom. That is something I believe every neutral beleives in. Also something which is what totally seperates us from the Omnis and the Clans. But other than that, and the places we live is there really that much which unites us?

    Uniting to support a common goal is, as a whole something which seems to happen much less now than it once did. We can work together, yet it seems our more shaded elements depending on our backgrounds seem to now push us apart more than those pushing us together. Its a sad thing really...and maybe somewhat caused by the huge split between the old and the new and the lack of mingling or uniting for things. Possibly its something the Council could try and do something about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jujuwalker
    remember the Borealis militia?
    I remember arguing with them over there excessive violent behaviour and general acting like they owned Borealis and lack of freedom. Never saw eye to eye with them ever to be honest. And yes, it did kind of erk us that they beat us to be formed by a couple of hours hehe...but the latter was a personal erk hehe.
    Major "Nyadach" Prabel
    Neutral and proud of it!

  3. #23
    *crosses his arms*

    Damn you Nya, the more and more I want to disagree with you, the more you reiderate my feelings and thoughts in much better words, and making me almost semi-respect you. *laughs*

    And yes by talking around town and such, people are seeing this as a "Newland Manifesto" as to which i said would probably happen from Day 1.
    "If you say 'plz' because it's shorter than 'please', I'll say 'no' because it's shorter than 'yes'."


    SirNegs - Neutral Keeper
    Negs - Neutral MP
    Lode - Neutral Doctor

  4. #24
    There seem to be some persistent misconceptions about the manifesto. The reason why we call it Neutral Manifesto, and not Newland Manifesto, is that it’s meant for all neutrals, and not only for Newland City. Furthermore, the manifesto is not something me, or the council, wants to force down anyone’s throat.

    The main reason why the manifesto was conceived is to give neutrals an identity. On the one side, to give neutrals an idea of the qualities which make us different from the factions, on the other, to make it possible for the factions to comprehend what our motives are, and more important: what our motives are not.

    A lot of the misconceptions, and even accusation, coming from the factions, are the result of the fact that they don’t know us, don’t know our reasons and don’t know our intentions. There always have been frictions because of this. But, the way the political situation evolves these days, this will sooner or later lead to a conflict. I’d rather wish to avoid conflict between our peoples if at all possible.

    So far, the criticism on the manifesto mostly seems to be located around the fact that we aren’t united in our goals. Yet, its sole unifying factor is neutrality. The only reason I can see for this, is that not all neutrals any longer see themselves as neutral, but indeed just as another faction. Or rather: factions, because in that case there are as many motives as there are organizations and even individuals. This is a very dangerous situation, since all who live under the neutral banner will be judged by the deeds of those who don’t share the same standards.

    If this is the case, and there indeed is a split, the question is how to go on from here. Either, those who no longer embrace the neutral principles come forward and avail themselves from hiding behind their non-existent neutrality, or we work towards some form of unification.
    Marcos "Yarko" Orender
    co-Minister of Foreign Affairs, Newland City Council
    Advisor of The Independent Rubikans

    Rubi-Ka's neutral news source: The Independent Rubikan http://www.ir-news.org/

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SirNegs
    Damn you Nya, the more and more I want to disagree with you, the more you reiderate my feelings and thoughts in much better words, and making me almost semi-respect you. *laughs*
    Lets just call it a temporary ceasefire...am sure I'll say something sooner, or later *stops and ponders* probably sooner which will have you mooning me on Borealis Main Street....AGAIN!
    Major "Nyadach" Prabel
    Neutral and proud of it!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyadach
    Lets just call it a temporary ceasefire...am sure I'll say something sooner, or later *stops and ponders* probably sooner which will have you mooning me on Borealis Main Street....AGAIN!
    Ahh good times, good times. *smiles*


    Quote Originally Posted by Yarko
    Either, those who no longer embrace the neutral principles come forward and avail themselves from hiding behind their non-existent neutrality, or we work towards some form of unification.

    Yarko, I just don't understand you. You posturing yourself to give an ultimatum?
    "If you say 'plz' because it's shorter than 'please', I'll say 'no' because it's shorter than 'yes'."


    SirNegs - Neutral Keeper
    Negs - Neutral MP
    Lode - Neutral Doctor

  7. #27
    No, I'm posing a question.
    Marcos "Yarko" Orender
    co-Minister of Foreign Affairs, Newland City Council
    Advisor of The Independent Rubikans

    Rubi-Ka's neutral news source: The Independent Rubikan http://www.ir-news.org/

  8. #28
    It really does sound like an ultimatum Yarko.

    On the other hand, a more important issue to address -before- we plung into the 'neutrals who are not neutral' issue is to define the concept of neutrality, or at least Yarko's concept of it. Is it found in the manifesto? The most likely canidates would be:

    # Neutrals are an independent entity, without political or ideological affiliation with either the Omni-Tek Corporation or the Clans.
    # Neutrals will maintain an impartial attitude towards, and avoid participation in any conflict between, Omni-Tek and the Clans.
    # Neutral cities are inviolable and are to be left undisturbed during conflicts between Omni-Tek and the Clans.
    If so, my question here would be how I should interperate: "Neutrals will maintain an impartial attitude towards, and avoid participation in any conflict between, Omni-Tek and the Clans." What is the actual conflict that you see? What do you mean by impartial attitude?
    Angel "Berael" Wolf - 220/22 Solitus Engineer RP Profile
    Advisor of Wolf Brigade, A Proud Neutral Organization


    AOwiki - A chance to show what you know.
    Hunting Grounds Neutral Neck Items Tradeskill Pricing v3.0 Roleplaying Organizations v2.0 (RK1)


    "The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation" - Albert Einstein
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." - Charles Darwin

  9. #29
    I like the nebula metaphor, but did you notice the shape if it? I'm sure if I look closely I can see the outline of a group of civil servants trying to flog a dead horse.

    (For anyone who does not know what this Idiom means. To flog a dead horse - To repeat the same outdated argument over and over again.)
    • Marqis Brigman Whites escaped to Rubi-Ka on Tue Jan 1st 2002 at 03:14:42 local time.
    • Sulema Multima Kerans was rescued from an omni mine on Wed May 15th 2002 at 19:39:23 local time.
    • Rachelle Uriaden McChristion relocated to Borealis on Sun Feb 2nd 2003 at 10:11:57 local time.
    • In Memory of Aazamon.

  10. #30
    A policy of neutrality concerns all measures that neutrals decide to adopt of their own free will, to ensure the credibility and effectiveness of their neutrality. While neutrality is defined as non-participation in armed conflicts, it can also be self-imposed in times of peace, to observe neutrality in any future armed conflicts.

    Impartiality means freedom from favoritism or bias, without discrimination, not play an adversarial role, not support any of the sides involved in an argument. By implication, neutrals should not directly aid the sides, but they are not obligated to prevent selling or transporting of arms, armor or other goods. They should however apply them to belligerents impartially.
    Marcos "Yarko" Orender
    co-Minister of Foreign Affairs, Newland City Council
    Advisor of The Independent Rubikans

    Rubi-Ka's neutral news source: The Independent Rubikan http://www.ir-news.org/

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Brigman
    I like the nebula metaphor, but did you notice the shape if it? I'm sure if I look closely I can see the outline of a group of civil servants trying to flog a dead horse.
    BRIG!!! Where ya been you "fairly" old git

    But yeah, it is the same old shades of grey thing rewrapped in a different way. But heck, we're supposidly all getting access into space sooner or later ain't we? Ohhh a huge floating vat of notum to drag nanomages into space in....can't wait.
    *ponders the idea of shoving various people out of air locks*

    Anyhow, back onto the topic at hand. Yes the Shades of Grey/Nebula does somewhat cover the whole "Neutral" position as it currently stands, yet which is not by defination in all texts what being "neutral" is. So whats the next step? line all those up to be shot all who have assisted or been helped by Clan and/or Omni in the past in a military action? Yes, it would clean out the population but sheesh it is harsh aint it. And although I would more than love to be the one holding the trigger when pointing a gun...ah screw that, a bloody big nuke at Omni-Pol's head over my abduction, it does lead to the issue that would make me no longer neutral, and force me if to continue under that title to forego it...which I simply couldn't do as so many others couldn't.

    What we have is actually two completely seperate groups, of "factions" if you will. One is a very very small number of people who are truely "neutral" and don't get involved in the fighting at all...or do the best to avoid it. And the other is an "unaffiliated" faction who isn't on paper assigned to either Omni or the Clans, and actually have there own utterly seperate agendas to each other. But in doing so can not be by defination be neutral. Being neutral, and not being in either Omni or the Clans are not the same thing. Yes it seems so, but in reality being neutral is wholey different from being unaffiliated. In such a case as this, anyone you would think could become neutral by simply leaving Omni or the Clans and not attacking anyone else if they do it for long enough. Those which do, would as defined be unaffiliated...but not neutral!

    You can all work out reading between the lines the only solution here short of executions. And I can't see anyone agreeing to it either. As much chance of that as watching a rollerrat with MP skills take up flying around Fair Trade. But in reality, its the only solution is it not? that or we just call all of us not unaffiliated and not actually neutral?
    Last edited by Nyadach; Apr 9th, 2006 at 17:44:03.
    Major "Nyadach" Prabel
    Neutral and proud of it!

  12. #32
    ok, whoever the knobhead that brought up the whole execution hoopla should seriously take another hit of the chill pill. This ain't about pointing out who's doing what or whatever. This is about unity, and defining who we are, what we are, and what we understand as... well... self evident.
    --
    The nootie's infamous black joker, Jujuwalker :
    RP profile : http://www.ao-universe.com/tools.php...ion=show&id=74
    --

    La censure est la negation de l' esprit. (Censoring is the negation of thought) --Yvirnig
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    --
    QUOTE OF THE DAY : And remember : you minions SHOULDN'T BE THINKING!

  13. #33
    "Unaffiliated"... that's a word I'm much happier with. I'm not in a faction because well, I don't enjoy being told what to think.

  14. #34
    This manifesto shows neutrals in a new light. Declaring things like in the point 7, sets neutrals on a dangerous course when Omni-Tek decides to re-evaluate their position on neutrals. Omni-Tek alone has the supreme jurisdiction on this planet.
    Engineer General Virta, Omni-Pol. Not in active service.

    Roleplaying Profile of Jimi "Virta" Hendrix

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Virta
    This manifesto shows neutrals in a new light. Declaring things like in the point 7, sets neutrals on a dangerous course when Omni-Tek decides to re-evaluate their position on neutrals. Omni-Tek alone has the supreme jurisdiction on this planet.
    Actually, it doesn’t. To allow an Omni-Tek department to enforce police operations in neutral cities could seriously endanger our neutrality. Ditto for the Clans. If both sides merrily start to arrest people from the opposite faction in neutral cities, these would soon become sided battlegrounds. And that’s something I’d rather avoid.

    Omni-Tek can very well claim to have the supreme jurisdiction on Rubi-Ka, in practice the situation is rather different.

    There’s a price to pay for neutrality. For the favour of neutrals not teasing Omni-Tek, you only have to respect our neutrality. Simple as that.
    Marcos "Yarko" Orender
    co-Minister of Foreign Affairs, Newland City Council
    Advisor of The Independent Rubikans

    Rubi-Ka's neutral news source: The Independent Rubikan http://www.ir-news.org/

  16. #36
    Most neutral cities are also in places that are of little economic consiquence to OT's mining operations. For example, Borealis is tapped dry and the Newland area only has minimal or low quality reserves.
    Angel "Berael" Wolf - 220/22 Solitus Engineer RP Profile
    Advisor of Wolf Brigade, A Proud Neutral Organization


    AOwiki - A chance to show what you know.
    Hunting Grounds Neutral Neck Items Tradeskill Pricing v3.0 Roleplaying Organizations v2.0 (RK1)


    "The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation" - Albert Einstein
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." - Charles Darwin

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarko
    Actually, it doesn’t. To allow an Omni-Tek department to enforce police operations in neutral cities could seriously endanger our neutrality. Ditto for the Clans. If both sides merrily start to arrest people from the opposite faction in neutral cities, these would soon become sided battlegrounds. And that’s something I’d rather avoid.

    Omni-Tek can very well claim to have the supreme jurisdiction on Rubi-Ka, in practice the situation is rather different.

    There’s a price to pay for neutrality. For the favour of neutrals not teasing Omni-Tek, you only have to respect our neutrality. Simple as that.
    Omni-Tek will enforce it's laws anywhere on Rubi-Ka as before. This manifesto sets you on a collision course with Omni-Tek, and it is not a good time to test the patience of my superiors. The manifesto is very close to a declaration of war.

    You are defining neutrality by saying that neutrals are at war with everyone, rather than saying neutrals do not wage war with anyone. This is just my personal advice, which you can disregard, but all the manifesto in its current form does is draw Omni-Tek attention. Point number 7 should be taken out. It is warmongering.
    Engineer General Virta, Omni-Pol. Not in active service.

    Roleplaying Profile of Jimi "Virta" Hendrix

  18. #38

    Cool

    The thing that I have been arguing here is whether or not neutrals should be involved in the war even as contractors or mercenaries under this manifesto. Its plainly obvious that according to Yarko's manifesto that this should not be the case. Given that, it would seem to me that a large majority of neutrals really don't care about the war itself and only have passing concerns with sided folks and issues. If we don't care about you, it generaly means that we are not working against you (or for you) so our 'discipline issues' would largely be our own to solve. So point 7 should largely be irrelivent to you considering what I said above about neutral lands being tapped areas; and any 'upstart neutrals' just might be overshadowed by a certain very large group of people who are actively plotting against Omni-Tech and wish to drive them off the world, if not out right destroy them.
    Angel "Berael" Wolf - 220/22 Solitus Engineer RP Profile
    Advisor of Wolf Brigade, A Proud Neutral Organization


    AOwiki - A chance to show what you know.
    Hunting Grounds Neutral Neck Items Tradeskill Pricing v3.0 Roleplaying Organizations v2.0 (RK1)


    "The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation" - Albert Einstein
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." - Charles Darwin

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Berael
    The thing that I have been arguing here is whether or not neutrals should be involved in the war
    Thats the thing though...to be "neutral" you can't be involved in the war at all. Be it as a contractor, a merc or anything else. To be "neutral" means you can't get involved at all. Yet, if you were reclassed as ohh, say "unaffiliated" it would allow you to as you are outside both the Clans, and Omni, and are free to do what company policy, or other agenda brings forth. In fact under such a view of looking at us all, the neutral population would actually become a sub-sect of the "unaffiliated" people.

    Makes me think though. Is it actually about time we bring back the old "tagging" for the respective organisations which make up the current "neutral" community? Possibly one before or after our organisation names stating what we really are? like *NEUT* and *AFIL* or something so those in the outside world knows who we are at a glance. *shrug* Just an idea though.
    Major "Nyadach" Prabel
    Neutral and proud of it!

  20. #40
    Remember that neutrals get rarely a job from contractor that give a great advantage to a side. Never getting token, no Tier 3 armors, and much more are the proofs that neutrals are not in the position to push the balance of the war. Hey, most of the stuff I did when I was a mercenary when about supply, some wild control or some minor actions that are better kept hidden from the hierarchy.

    Lets be honest, Omni Tek and the Clans being the most important factions of Rubi Ka and if you want to sell your skills or trade they are two markets you'd better look at, heh ? A lot of us got a damn nice pair of shoulder pads, if you know what I mean.

    But as I said. If you want to do that, be sure you do this for yourself, not for a side. And look everywhere, never limiting to an area. And I recommend you to repair inbalances you cause, if you cause some. It will only give you trouble in the long term.

    However, I still say that neutrals have nothing to do in direct battle between the sides that determine the future of the war, like notum wars, and shouldn't get help from the other side when they got a fight.
    If you are giving a hand to Omni Tek, then you shouldn't do things half way and join them fully.

    But hey, such things like many stuff is for anyone guess. What's important is that you are really neutral and not act like one.
    Last edited by Boltgun; Apr 11th, 2006 at 19:15:04.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
    N E U T R A L I Z E R S

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