Your opinion on tradeskills

[____________Intrepid]

Recently more and more engineers have been getting mad at their seeming incompetence in tradeskills as compared to traders so we have been brainstorming some solutions to the problems and would like some input on behalf of the community.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=42687

Please fill out poll and leave and other comments you want here.

[________________Jica]

I really believe in the self buff only idea.

Don't know if they should stack with maestros if they are equal to those, but if they stack maybe just add about 100 to tradeskills.

Personally I would prefer some buffs that were self only and equal/a bit better than maestros but did not stack with the trader buffs.

But combining would make us best at tradeskills. Engineers are not really great at anything, and at high lvl the pet thing gets rather useless in all ways and people focus more on tradeskills. Yet we are so much lesser than traders in skills and mainly buffs.

[AtomicRabbit]

I would like to see a self only tradeskill buff for engis. I always thought it was odd that traders could wrangle and their skills would lower but when doing trade skill buffs they don't lose anything. Only reason why I could think that funcom didn't setup trade skill buffs like wrangles is because then there would be no reason for a trader to get the high lvl ones.

Traders just wouldn't make enough back for the effort from the times that they would use the nanos for buffing engis.

I am not sure what would be the best way to handle the buff, having a programs that add to all tradeskills and is self only. Have 3 of them with level requirements like 50,100, 150 or something like that.

[________________Jica]

Originally posted by DeadlyRabbit
I would like to see a self only tradeskill buff for engis. I always thought it was odd that traders could wrangle and their skills would lower but when doing trade skill buffs they don't lose anything. Only reason why I could think that funcom didn't setup trade skill buffs like wrangles is because then there would be no reason for a trader to get the high lvl ones.

Traders just wouldn't make enough back for the effort from the times that they would use the nanos for buffing engis.

I am not sure what would be the best way to handle the buff, having a programs that add to all tradeskills and is self only. Have 3 of them with level requirements like 50,100, 150 or something like that.

I agree on the level requirement part first of all. Second of all, I'm actually having trouble finding high lvl traders willing to buff me maestros these days. They are all hiding (hehe), which makes it so much harder to get skills high and a pain to do the advanced ones, because you know you face 1 hour+ of buffhunting.

[Neph]

Maybe we could have our own upgradable item like agents (Balaclava) and fixers (NCU Hacked Interface) recently got.

A special 'Gloves of Enhanced Skills' or 'Forge of Perfect Smithing' that would add to most (all) tradeskills. +1 at ql1, +150 at ql200 (no idea what would be a reasonable high-end value). And it could be upgraded at every level.

Of course, it should not be a tarasque drop or boss loot only!
Could be built using existing tradeskill items at different qls. So if you are higher lvl, you can directly built a higher ql one using the correct parts.

[_____________Pays007]

if you take a look at the AO database for 14.5 on test you'll see quite a few eng only items that add to tradeskills. That should help a bit.

[____________Intrepid]

Originally posted by Pays007
if you take a look at the AO database for 14.5 on test you'll see quite a few eng only items that add to tradeskills. That should help a bit.

2 to be exact. And they use the 1 ability most engies don't need/use already. /me waves good bye to another 200k IP to raise psy.

[______________Laptop]

I can't resist, can you imagine the complaints that would then exist about how PM & SI are dark blue for the Engies to be able to use those buffs etc. Hahaha personally I think FC is smart for not introducing these buffs for Engis as it would only lead to more complaints about not being able to use them until much later in the engineers life and hence the usefullness would be unseen.

[coldwarkid]

Someone (or more likely several someones) came up with the idea of helperbots a while ago. The easy way to implement these would be as a nano that drops a time-limited item into your inventory that can then be equipped to boost tradeskills. Make a nice little wireframe for it similar to the wen-wen that floats over the user's shoulder and voila - instant helperbot. Use MC/TS for the initial nano and you get around the PM/SI problem.

Cheers,

~R~

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Laptop
I can't resist, can you imagine the complaints that would then exist about how PM & SI are dark blue for the Engies to be able to use those buffs etc. Hahaha personally I think FC is smart for not introducing these buffs for Engis as it would only lead to more complaints about not being able to use them until much later in the engineers life and hence the usefullness would be unseen.

On the one hand I'm tempted to agree with you, but if these buff did need Sens Imp and Psy Mod it would give Engineers another reason to raise those skills.

On the other hand however why would the new buffs need to use those 2 skills.

Myself, I'm more for these buff coming in the form of Engineer-only gadgets (the helper or 'buffy' bot is a good idea) rather than nanos. These gadgets however should be easily obtainable or beter yet buildable and not require stupid skills (Giraldi crystal anyone) or rediculously hard to obtain parts.

[Boinky]

Why didn't FC give us Engis Tradeskill buffs from the start anyway? Are we not designed for tradeskill mastery, and yet the skills are expensive and we have to beg buffs from Traders to have any ip left over for anything else to do much?

[zombikiller]

Can we stop bringing Traders into this debate??
I don't think I can handle another nerf :P
Just Force funcom to give engis some buffs and things will be fine, also I am willing to Maestro any engi that needs it when I am in-game just send a /tell

[Kzak]

Problem is, apparently FunCom doesn't listen to engineers.

When Warlock brought up the engineers' plight in a Community thread, Cz stated that further Engineer posts would be deleted.

Combined with the lack of response on the Engineer forums, I see several of my fellow engis losing hope. It's not easy to keep hope up for myself either.

So, why are we still here?

Probably hoping against hope that something will be done. Or playing against the odds and trying to overcome the many deficiencies this profession has.

[____________Boadicea]

All those Engi whiners.
What do you want?
YOU have your pet - you are good making those mechanical pets. Why do you want to be better in TRADEskills then the TRADERS?
What are traders? Just good for wrangles to let you make a better pet?
I'll tell you: TRADERS should be best in ALL TRADEskills. And engis maybe a bit better in building weapons, as that is something mechanical.
Don't cry - you habe enough advantages vs. traders with your pets.
The traders don't have pets as their "charming" spells make them just standing around like frozen - in fact we ARE frozen then. If you use the low lvl spell you have luck - just 5 min, higher level spells are working for 30 min and more i think. 30 min frozen on the spot - not able to do something.
So stop whining for better tradeskills as you already have something that makes you be real engis - mechanical pets.

Killashandra, trader, DNW

[Kzak]

Boadicea: Suggestion for you.

Roll up an Engineer. Try playing him/her until level 140. Concentrate on tradeskills.

See how much fun that is? Experience! the joy of pet-pathing, as the algorithms and lag zip your pet back two rooms, leaving you to face a Veteran Enforcer all by yourself. Shiver! at the thrills you get from begging buffs from MPs and Traders every time you want to stand a serious chance in PvM. Rejoice! when, in PvP, the 'poor Trader' mezzes your Slayerdroid at first try, drains you for 400 pts of skills, and proceeds to whomp your hindquarters.

Also, please explain the logic behind someone with 'CEO' in their profession title being a lot better at building things than a 'Master Engineer'.

If the title 'Engineer' means 'droid operator' to you, then you really should look 'Engineer' up in any dictionary.

[____________Boadicea]

If you have read my post carefully, I already stated that engi should eventually be better at mechanical things like assembling weapons. I just don't understand why engi want to be better then traders in all skills. That is what most are whining for.
And this game should be balaned.
Please explain, in which cases traders have advantages, when the charms line don't work, team heals have been nerfed and plunder will be nerfed in future (with increasing nanoresist) - and don't speak of shotguns - everyone can wield shotgun - with more or less IP costs.
So when you think of balancing - not of what you would like to have, don't you think that traders would be really gimped if they won't be best at trades anymore? Then there would be no single thing (for themselves not speaking of wrangles for others) except for the deprive line left for the traders - and engis would have 2 things - best in trades AND best with pets.
Would that be balancing?

Killashandra, trader, DNW

BTW. I have an engi, even though no high lvl one...

[Kzak]

This isn't about making Engineers 'uber' compared to Traders in tradeskills. This is about evening the field out some.

Traders and Engineers both have several green tradeskills.

Yet, Traders are the -only- ones who have any buffs for those tradeskills save for the Expertise nanos. Oh, and the Engineers' 'uber' Philosopher's Stone nano.

Basically, what we Engineers want is to have -some- ability of buffing our tradeskills. Not as good as the Traders' Maestros, but half or two thirds of the effect of the Maestro. For truly high-level tradeskill operations, Traders would still have to be contacted.

Tradeskills is the only area in which there's a real grudge between Engineers and Traders. The other areas - divests, weapon skills, mez, charms - we Engineers don't worry much about, as they aren't suitable to our classes. Traders can keep those areas as they are for me.

This is not a nerfing of Traders. It's about making Engineers a little less dependent on Traders.

Besides, if we actually get self-buffs for tradeskills, they'll use SI/PM, which are dark blue skills for us, veeeeery IP-intensive.

[____________Boadicea]

I forgot to mention that engis have the best AC in game - traders have nothing for protection.

Killashandra, trader, DNW

[____________Boadicea]

And additionally if you look at the poll (link in first post) engis in fact WANT to be BETTER then traders - and that is something I could not accept - that would be the time to open a trader whining for love thread (that would proof, that whining helps, even when it's repellent) - or time to cancel because of too much nerfs.
There are much less traders then engis in the higher lvls (looking at DNW, don't know about RK1 and 2) - think of it, why that is so. And think what will be, if engis will have even more advantages - less traders. Result: less wrangles avaiable


Killashandra, trader, DNW

[Kzak]

Traders have nothing for protection?

You conveniently left out the 'Draw AC' line of nanos.. Pawnbroker's Armor lowers a target's AC by 1200 pts, giving 1190 pts back to the caster, for three minutes.

Not exactly without protection.

An Engineer can cast Aegis barrier - 720 AC - plus Sympathetic Fortress Screen, giving 627 pts in addition, for 1347 AC total. However, when ACs reach over 4k, the extra effect becomes difficult to notice. Besides, those two Engineer nanos take 116 NCU in total, while Pawnbroker's Armor takes 57 NCU.

Sure, Engineers get.. let's see.. 157!! extra AC over Pawnbroker's Armor, for a cost of 59 NCU more than a Trader's top AC draw.

I ask you: Which profession has got by far the best deal, AC-wise?

As for some Engineers wanting to be the best at tradeskills, I know. But I understand that FC isn't likely to let that happen, so I go for a moderate line, so Engineers can get some way of self-buffing their tradeskills. Cooperation is the best way to go.

Presently, a Trader needs a Doc to get in the top implants for tradeskills, so the highest-QL processes can be performed.

An Engineer needs both a Trader and a Doc to do the same process.