Community answers - part 6

[______________Shatai]

Originally posted by Sean Roach
You have a point about parrying with the weapon, but if you kick at me below the navel, I WILL block you with a knee, and I don't care WHAT weapon I'm carrying at the time.

Good point. Except if it's a melee weapon, like a sword, then you've just lost your lower leg. But for a kick, sure, you've got a good point here.

If the gun's heavy, it'd be difficult to swing it to block, but I can see dropping the stock momentarily to block a rib blow.

Sort of like dropping the lower end of a staff? Interesting point. A little awkward, perhaps, but possible. So we've got ribs and kicks covered to some degree.

Does parry take strength into account?

It's based 50% on Strength, 20% Agility, 30% Sense. I'm not going to try and work out their reasoning there.

You could reduce parrying skill when the character is equipped with any ranged weapon over a certain weight, probably by making the weapon itself debuff parrying while equipped. This would probably require going through the database, or setting a script to do it, and putting a debuff on any weapon over a certain weight. Possibly anything that uses 50% or more of any of the inappropiate skills, (rifle, shotgun, SMG, etc) added together, with the debuff equal to some modifier on the weight.

Then again, can you see parrying with an I-beam? How about a broken chair?

Again, true. You've made some good points, I'm willing to admit that. I don't really expect anything to change, it was more a case of me venting against something that seems illogical, more than anything else. A steel beam, no, but then, if someone's swinging at me with a steel beam (or could), I'd be trying to avoid it more than anything else And it all depends on which part of the broken chair

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Cz
Warlock, if you don't think your feedback does anything, why are you posting? If you'd like us to close the BB, just leave. Others seem to enjoy it, but we should close it because you don't? Sorry, not gonna happen.

I think your vision of the Professionals program's worth is a bit negative. We have great input from them, though it is only natural that people will of course want more feedback too. As long as people want to work with us, and we see a worth in it, we will keep it up.

Ok so next time I'll include the sarcasm tags (I though it was pretty obvious myself but there you go...) not for a second did I expect you to shut the boards down because I asked you to, no more than FC takes notice of anything else posted here by the players. But honestly (and no I dont expect you to answer) how much of the players feedback do you actually take any further than yourself? and how much of that actually makes a difference? I can tell you that _nothing_ the Engineers have said has gone any further that this board.

I post here when I have time, I dont make a living out of it. (un)fortunately I have had quite a bit of time at work over the summer to post. If you really want me gone, then just ban me and get it out of your system, I'm sure no one will miss me and you could probably do with the stress relief (I am serious here btw). I post to obtain and share information, and I post to try and shake up the status quo at funcom central (and have failed miserably thus far)

Again you're glossing over the issues. I dont doubt that the Pros gave you good input (in fact I _know_ they did). But that came from all the players via the Pros since we all foolishly expected you to take what they said seriously. So what have you done with that input?..... very little. Check out the Pros posts in the appropriate boards and youll see, in most cases (I could list but I wont), the Pros _and_ the players are not happy with the official replies, once they finally arrived, in a lot of cases FC appear to refuse to admit there is a problem and just throw it back at the players asking for more information, even though its already been given.

Unless you (FC) are prepared to be present while we play, how more specific can we get. We _know_ the problem happens, we _see_ the problem happen, we _tell_ you theres a problem (with as much detail as we can), but you give it a cursory glance and eventually reply along the lines of "well we dont see a problem, and many of our devs play [insert prof here]"

Given the sheer volume of Pros that have quit (and in _at least_ the MP's case having provided info above and beyond the call of duty) how can you stand there with a straight face and say you see a worth in it? Look at the player poll of what people think of the Pro program and almost everyone thinks its a waste of time (but we take polls for what they are, granted). No official reply to these resignations has been given, and no replacements have been sought or appointed - hardly an indication your that bothered about it?

Sure the program got you some much neeed PR points when announced, but like all the other times when FC have 'turned over a new leaf' (such as official FC replies on the boards) you do well for about a week, then it all goes down the pan.

Dont get me wrong this isnt directed at you personally, I dont doubt you have your hands full on a daily basis, but since you and Cos are our only conduit to the 'powers that be' you are unfortunately the one who has to read through all this moaning (yes I'll be the first to admit I'm moaning)

[Snuble]

RealGunslinger:

I would suggest investing in a good gun, some nice armour, and then put away your bot for the big fight (boss room). If the mission is a tough one, your bot will be most welcome during the mission too. But I agree, most pet professions do have problems keeping up in a high level team. Its no exclusively to pets, players tend to get lost too

[Kzak]

The way I (at level 134) do team missions with my Engineer:

1. Enter mission, buff up as usual. But don't get the bot out - no real point after the second room if it has four mobs in it, as the bot will inevitably get stuck despite all good intentions.

2. Blaze through mission with friends, collecting XP and the good stuff.

3. Boss elevator: Now's the time to get the bot out, buff it up with all the useful nanos. The bot is quite handy against boss mobs, as it's a 'distraction' that keeps part of the boss' attention at the bot while we others can clean out the guards before whomping the boss last.

As Snublefot said, get good armor and a decent weapon so you can help your harder-hitting teammates with the normal complement of mobs that is found in a mission.

[Maximilian]

Is anybody else besides me asking himself if the picture that Kzak and Snuble (experienced Engineers) are drawing is anything close you would haved imagined as an 'Engineer'?

Btw., I am playing an Engineer (lvl 90).

So long,

Max(imilian)

[Darkbane]

Originally posted by RealGunslinger

Ever tried to team with an Engi in a 6 man team with 2 enf, 2 MA, 1 Doc and You the Engi? If you are lucky then you reach level 2 of the team mission before they have killed the boss.

Not all proffesions are possible to play in team.

Having quite often teamed with engis, MPs, Agents with MP pets (often all 3 together), I reckon that you just have a 'me-me-me' team there... Good team tactics and a bit of patience may be needed with these classes in a team, but they are still perfectly valid and useful (and good team tactics and patience are useful in any team).

Still, a week to level... guess it depends on how much you play. But I'd reckon teaming (at level100ish) can gain a level in a night (say 5 hours), where-as soloing would take 4-5 times as long. And to paraphrase the above a bit - Not all professions solo well at all levels...

[______________Scorus]

In one solo mission last night, I had mobs that yielded 25K, 40K, 60K, 98K, and 105K XP. There were about 35 mobs total and I had at least 3-4 at both extremes. Now I don't want uniformity, but a 25-105K swing seems more than a bit extreme! A 25-60 or 60-105 would be more reasonable, but including mobs that are laughably easy with those that are laughably hard is too much.

Scorus

[Cz]

Originally posted by Warlock
Ok so next time I'll include the sarcasm tags (I though it was pretty obvious myself but there you go...)

Yes, please do. Separating sarcasm from the rest on this board is quite difficult at times.

not for a second did I expect you to shut the boards down because I asked you to, no more than FC takes notice of anything else posted here by the players.

Guess I should add sarcasm tags too. We do take notice of what you post though.

But honestly (and no I dont expect you to answer) how much of the players feedback do you actually take any further than yourself?

Honestly (and no, I don't expect you to say you believe me), most of it. Close to all of it, in fact. As most forums, this one has its share of useless or even stupid stuff. We do add some filtering before sending it on to anybody.

We also do not bring up the same issue again and again, just because people didn't see that others did suggest it three months ago. If we feel there's room for bringing it up again, we do it, of course, but we know the limitations of the team, and often know whether they can or can't do things. Especially when they told us "no" a month before.

and how much of that actually makes a difference? I can tell you that _nothing_ the Engineers have said has gone any further that this board.

Not sure how the Engineers are worse off than others. I believe the three main issues for Engineers are pet pathing (our number one issue right now, since we don't need to push for reimbursement anymore), being 'only' second on the trade skills (due to Traders having trade skill buffs), and lack of popularity in teams (often due to the pet pathing). These are issues the dev team know about, and while they don't throw all other plans out the window to fix it, it is given fair attention, imo.

If you really want me gone, then just ban me and get it out of your system, I'm sure no one will miss me and you could probably do with the stress relief (I am serious here btw). I post to obtain and share information, and I post to try and shake up the status quo at funcom central (and have failed miserably thus far)

No, I don't want you gone at all. I want you happy.

---

Deliberately skipping the Professionals part here, for two reasons: 1. I'm dead tired. 2. I want to check whether Cosmik would like to answer it, as he has more knowledge about the program.

---

Dont get me wrong this isnt directed at you personally

I usually do not even take the personal comments personally. No danger there.

Ok, I'd better be off to bed. Gotta get time for a new thread here soon, as this one is getting to be too long.

[_______________Daeem]

Originally posted by Cz
Daeem, where have you submitted those suggestions? We get tons of suggestions each day, and if we were to reply to all, we'd have to bring in 20 more people with nothing else on their work list than writing e-mails or posts.
[/B]

Well... other than the 5 emails which have slightly changed based on FC's editing I beleive you personally have already read my ranged weapons suggestion. You said it was a nice suggestion.

You can find it here:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...0&pagenumber=2

I can also quote it for you.

"Why not take my old suggestion about special attacks?
Ranged:

Flingshot is a quick shot which cycles at its own speed skill. Does not replace your attack.

Aimed shot is a startup attack. High critical hit chance. Useable only if you're not in combat at that moment.

Burst takes your next attack, fires 3 shots at a slightly lower hit rate.

Full auto, your next attack unloads your current ammo. Lower chance to hit per each shot than burst.

Bow special changed since my original submission. I figure it can be left as is and using it as a fire special type of arrow attack.

Melee skills are decently set up. (exception parry, there are no shields, or parry weapons which you can block melee/ma attacks with)

Body skills are decent also, exception REPOSITE which I beleive nobody knows how to get it to work.

As for miscellanous weapons. Grenades can not be thrown yet so theres no area of effect attack. Throwing weapons just dont exist (sharp object) at all."

The original email I sent AGES ago was replyed to and I was told that I could actually hold a conversation with FC somehow sometime. To this date I've asked 50 times this year alone on when or if it's ever going to be able to happen.

As for IRC chat, I know very little of it and think it would be far easier for us to hold a chat in FC's own game chat setting.

Now to be a little polite to the other people here I'm going to wait for a response again.

[Sean-Roach]

Well, here's a way to skirt the pet pathing problem.

Give us pet keepers, (either summoned, or charmed,) three extra controls for the action window.

Strafe left, Strafe right, and Jump.

Shift-Z, Shift-C, and Shift-Space

Make the pet do these things as it tries to walk through a table to get to the mob, based on the button pressed, (and even held down.)

I'm not sure how much lag would effect the ability to do this, but if we could essentially spam the strafe left button when the pet is walking into a wall trying at the mob on the other side, we might be able to get it to the door where it can get through. If we can instruct it to jump when it's stuck on a table, or even worse for rationality, a campfire, then again, it's off toward the mob again.

Now, getting the thing to follow correctly might still be a problem, and I'm not sure how effective this would make a pet in teams, especially fast-moving teams.

[Maximilian]

As you have commented on the problem, I want to use the chance and use the gap in your defence - as long as it is open.

Originally posted by ... - guess, CZ, of course
Not sure how the Engineers are worse off than others. I believe the three main issues for Engineers are pet pathing (our number one issue right now, since we don't need to push for reimbursement anymore), being 'only' second on the trade skills (due to Traders having trade skill buffs), and lack of popularity in teams (often due to the pet pathing). These are issues the dev team know about, and while they don't throw all other plans out the window to fix it, it is given fair attention, imo.

Although I'd say, that it is a pretty decent view, I would like to present a slightly different angle.

Priorities of problems:
Though pet pathing is a (big) problem and you definitely work on that (the warp function in most (mission) area types is really good) I wouldn't consider that as 'the' major problem (mine at least).
To put it in simple words. The Engineer is one of the prime 'beggar' profession (haven't played all professions, so I can't say absolutely). Begging hurts your pride (could be a personal problem ) and hinders game flow. With my Adv I was self sustaining (talking of times before 14.4), a feeling that I lack with my Engi. I need a MP and/or Trader to be fully functional - and I am not talking about getting an additional boost in power, I am talking about beeing seriously 'impared' without their buffs. And no, up to date I do not use Mochams nor Infuses (premiere yesterday) - until lvl90 I used Masteries, if I could get them. For the first 50 levels I was always looking for a decent run buff as well - Engi run speed is expensive.

Hold it, before you start screaming, I am not done.

That there are professions, that rely to a larger part on other professions is acceptable - although not fair - as long as they have something that is wanted by the others in exchange.

Read the sentence again - it is the key message of the post.

In my eyes, Engi lack in 'demand'. There is nothing major we can give in exchange for the buffs we need to keep up with the rest.
1) Tank pet. Those rust cans take a hell lot of damage, yep, but to work as intended they would need to hold the aggro (good discussion on the Engi board about that). I was with a full team yesterday, and we killed about 100 MOBs (~40% ...). I recall two situations, where my bot was of direct use. Once, the 'intended' situation, we got an add that I could (luckily) get my bot on, who indeed held the aggro until the team finished MOB number one. And, main room on the base level, where one gets multiple adds. I recall a single fight where my bot drew aggro at the beginning and could hold it throughout the few seconds it lasted. Yes, my trimmers are up to date, way above my level for the aggro trimmer.

Summary: My personal damage potential is 'low' compared to all others in the team. The fights against the NPCs were so short (less than 10 sec, usually) that I personally was lucky to get a couple of shots and my bot was 'always' outdamaged (Agents, Enf, Fixer, MP pet). Not that the old punching bag would be needed as damage dealer (fire power was never the problem) but it would be really nice, if I could convince the MOBs a bit more often to hit him instead of the other team mates.

Although I don't like the analysis: For less than 5% of the situations where I (my bot) was really needed, why should they consider asking an Engi again? A doc, Adv or MA would have been more useful.
Yes, they asked for AC buffs (mainly we had a Fixer with NCU extension in our team) - I think, the Enf wasn't aware of the functionality of Engineer's refelct shields. Adv and MA have Ac buffs as well, btw.
Ironically, the only time where my warp could have been of use, I crashed (3 times yesterday!).

2) Trade skills (where Engineers should excel - personal opinion)
I am not aware of a single trade skill discipline where you would need an Engineer for. Every important thing (Nano crystals, implants, armor, weapons) can be executed by either a Trader or MP earlier and better (higher ql) before an Engineer comes into account. Again, to keep up with the two professions, I have to ask as well as for buffs, because I don't have ones. And if they buff me, I am still not 'better' than themselves, par, maybe. So why should they ask an Engineer.
This situation might change in very (high) levels, where IP is so abundant, that I can raise the full set of trade skills, so that I could imagine the Advantage of beeing the whole factory in one person - until level 100 this seems not to be the case (personal experience).

So, now I would like to get a decent answer by you or the Designers if and how FC is going to improve the (team) situation, which is in the end the aim of a MMORPG, isn't it? And no, if you fix pet pathing, this will not solve all the problems. The pet still will not be able to hold/draw the aggro. And we will still be outconstructed by the other profession(s).

No, I never said, that an Engineer is bad at soloing - in contrast, he is rather good at that. But the most interesting parts of the game (content) are only accessable in team(s)!. And I don't want to live for the boss mob only. 'Hey, Engi, you stick your pet on the boss until we finished the rest - hey Engi, are you afk?

So long,

Max(imilian)

P.S. Well, more lines than initially planned - hope you enjoyed reading.

[_______________Tiran]

(our number one issue right now, since we don't need to push for reimbursement anymore) -- Cz

Umm, Cz, was there an announcement somewhere that reimbursement tools have been created, at last? Or do you just mean Funcom has decided never to reimburse any bug-deleted items ever, so no more 'problem'?

I see no announcement of this from you, Cosmik, or anyone else. Perhaps I missed it?

[Maximilian]

Hehe, Tiran, yes! This 'side note' needs some clarification.

So long,

Max(imilian)

[Darkbane]

I'd guess it is because said tools are now in development, or at least scheduled, so no need to push it, but yes, some clarification wouldn't go amiss there...

As to Engineers and pets.

Pathing is mostly an issue in missions. And missions is the one place pathing really shouldn't be an issue as all the paths should be predefined. The fact that things can't even find the damn door suggests the paths are *not* predefined. Even in missions, you'd still need heuistic path finding, but only to supplement the defined paths.

Heuristic pathing is one of *the* most complex and heavily researched issues in game development, and there are still no foolproof methods, or any that even get close. This is why most games with fixed geometry (missions are fixed geometry a a room level, and rooms interconnect in a deterministic fashion) use pre-path based systems with heuristic systems to enable a computer controlled entity to find the path nodes in the first place.

And engineers should get some tradeskill buffs, and maybe a team damage buff (the engineer's nano-bots get to work and improve your weapon...) or the ability to summon a short duration fixed location 'gun-turret' might be in keeping...

[AkodoReign]

Cz it dont matter if our bots have 1million health they Hit like a wet noodle.

The doctor in the team is doing 10000+ in 10 seconds with a krutt.

The agent is doing 10000 with aimed shots.

The Ma is doing 200, 500, 2.1k .1.2k ,1.3k,2k all in 10 seconds.

The slayer does 300, 300, 600, 600, 1.7k, 300, 300 in ten seconds.

This is the second issue besides pathing that needs to be addressed. The bot cannot hold aggro.

3rd of couse is trade skills.

4th Buff begging.

5th usefull buffs (caccon line aside)

[Cz]

Daeem, yes, I think it's a nice suggestion, and one that has gone into the suggestion system. I hope you don't expect me to remember all suggestions we see and comment on.

Not sure who promised you a chat with somebody from Funcom, and who you have been asking for this 50 times, but if we were going to offer that to everybody, we wouldn't have time to do any work, so I doubt it's very much of an option. That's kind'a one of the reason for using the bulletin board; Everybody get the same chance of getting heard. I doubt you will get a personal 15 minutes with the designers. Sorry.

Tiran, there's no need to push for it, since Customer Service handles the case, and it's moving fast towards implementation.

Maximilian, you're pretty much just elaborating on the three issues I mentioned, aren't you?

Anyhow, this is not the Engineer forum (that is why I didn't want to write a long post about it in the first place), so don't make this an Engineer thread.

[frakk2k]

Hey, can fc make a new set of arenas?

-> Link to suggestions about PvP <-

And stop nerfing pvp, most people just whine because of duelling in the arena. Not in war like situations.

[Maximilian]

Cz, give the Engis (me) an answer (and I mean answer, not an Evade) and I will (might) shut up.


... so don't make this an Engineer thread.

Nope, last post on this topic in here from me - to obey is my pleasure.

If you would have (pretended to have) read my post, then you might have got the point, that I tried to give FC some other than the standard arguments.

But, well, as you (FC) are underestimating the intelligence of your customers I might have underestimated yours as well, and all possible arguments human kind could think of on this topic have already been discussed with a wide range of designers, professionals and testers, a nice perspective paper has been prepared and a long answer for the Engineer board is already in preparation. (Do I need the sarcasm tags here?)

Cosmik's last post on the Engi board dates from June 14th introducing the Professionals - hrm,
the last time you have been on the Engi board, you closed two threads (though necessary) - no post this year!

While we are at it - do you remember this thread/post?
Information from funcom reguarding sky high multiranged req's.
I may ask, if you are still trying to get the 'permission'?

So long, and a nice weekend

Max(imilian)

[Destractor]

Well sinse I have seen no input from FC on engies I think we might as well make this an engie thread.

/rant

Is FC's opinion that the engie has a unique state where we have fun searching and buff begging people so that we can solo. This is our fun, rather than every other profession who can buff there main skills, look for a trader once in a while, and spend the rest of their time having fun in teams?

It we are not going to get anything to make us needed then at least stop us from needing to find buffs EVERY DAY we play. One option is a npc MP who we could buy mochams from.

Fixers have SMG buffs as it is their primary weapon skill.
MP's have ALL nano skill buffs as their meatballs are their prime weapon.
MA's buff MA
Adv's have multi, pistol, 1he buffs
Agents, rifle buffs
Trader, everything
Soldier, most ranged

Engies have a grenade/pistol buff, but so high that there is no point increasing stats high enough to use it. And FC keep telling us that the bot is the engies main weapon. Our main weapon is bugged (pathing) after 1 year? hmm nice

Their are so many solutions. npc MP's, nano buffs, lower shell requirements, bot stays after logging (bot stables)

My personal feeling is that all professions should have their weapons removed when they log (or put in their inv) and move the nanos about so that they have to find another profession every time they want to go into combat. I wonder how they would stand that.

Do we need to cusade the boards like the fixers did to get attention?

I would say that engies should refuse to give t heir services until we get a fix, but then we have nothing to hold ransom.

/end rant


So anyway, any good news for engies in the near future Cz?

[_______________Daeem]

Originally posted by Cz
Daeem, yes, I think it's a nice suggestion, and one that has gone into the suggestion system. I hope you don't expect me to remember all suggestions we see and comment on.

Not sure who promised you a chat with somebody from Funcom, and who you have been asking for this 50 times, but if we were going to offer that to everybody, we wouldn't have time to do any work, so I doubt it's very much of an option. That's kind'a one of the reason for using the bulletin board; Everybody get the same chance of getting heard. I doubt you will get a personal 15 minutes with the designers. Sorry.

I asked not for designers but you or Cosmik. My questions are highly dependant on the answer after the first one.

EG.

Is the (insert affiliation type here) command system going to be contactable somehow eventually? (ICC, CoT, Omni-Tek, others)

If you say yes I'll ask when and where, If you say no I'd like to know why.

That is the shortest line of questions I can possibly produce. While I could go on for 30 minutes of typing here It would be inapproiate to guess your answers to questions which continue to branch off untill I find an eventual ending. I'm not the most intelligent person on the planet (actually I'm probably an absurd distance from that rank) but there is a chance I'll miss an option in which case my entire tree of answers gos down the toilet at that point.

In the near future I'll open up a chat under the suggestions board, post a link to it here and hopefully give you some constructive critisim (sorry... don't remember proper spelling of that word and don't care to look it up) with some reasonable feedback. I'm only looking to make the game better.

Please feel free to answer the ICC, CoT, Omni-Tek question remembering this only asks for actual storyline like answers.

Omni-Tek Rubi-Ka gets Ross report or one of his subordinates who already has these answers.

Council of Truth has a PR department or some sort... Probably with Radiman in charge of it but I'm not able to make that decision.

ICC is on planet only in the form of buildings... I'd like to contact them however its literally impossible right now. I'd love to offer my services on Rubi-Ka as a neutural representative for ICC law enforcement. I'd love to form a guild based on their rules and regulations, but before that ever can happen they have to be there first so I can ASK them if they want me to not do such.

Signing out for a while to await a response.