Tir Accord clarifications

[______________Luxxan]

I'm having some trouble fitting the Tir Accord into the game world, and I was curious to see whether people think the Accord reflects gameplay, or whether it's just fluff. I personally like it, I just don't see it in the game, which is too bad.

The first problem I can't understand is the territory. From the Accord:

Omni-Tek is the superior governing body of the entirety of Rubi-Ka, but will leave to the Council to
supervise the areas of Tir, Tir County, Athen, Athen Shire, Aegan, Northern Artery Valley, The Big
One, Avalon, Mort, Newland, and Western Endless Plains.

The remaining terraformed areas on the planet will remain under complete Omni-Tek control and sub
ject to the ICC lease of 28708.

Do these areas include all their "child" zones or are they just the zones with those names? For example, the Clans hold Athen and Aegan, but do they hold Wartorn Valley? West Athen? I figure these must be considered "subdomains" of the other zones, but if that's true, is Newland Desert part of Newland? Greater Tir County?

Also, the last caption states that the remaning terraformed areas are OT property. What about all the terraformed areas like Varmint Woods? There is a clan outpost there which has whompa access, but the way I read the Accord, that should be Omni territory. And what rules apply in non-terraformed areas which are held by no-one, like the Perpetual Wastes?

Another gripe I have is that 3 of the 11 areas designated Clan aren't even in the game. If the zones aren't going to be implemented, it would be nice to see some political story happen which gives the Clan more territory to compensate.

Finally, what about the neutrals? What areas are designated "neutral" and what rules apply in neutral areas? The last two Ammendments bring this question to the forefront, because the clans designated Newland as neutral last August. I take it this exempts both sides from the location restrictions, otherwise every Omni player in Newland City should be carted back to Omni-1 for corporate trial. Also, there is an Ammendment that states that Omni will place a security force at Meetmedere, yet the guards there are neutral and I remember that the city's neutralization was a story event some time ago. Shouldn't there be an Ammendment for the Ammendment then?

I'm really happy that some story items (like the Timeline..woohoo) are being given to us, but it gets difficult to RP and run an RP-based guild when the information you're given isn't consistent with the game world.

I spent a long time away from the game after New Year, so I'm sure there are some things I'm missing. I'm just hoping someone can fill in the holes.

http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...tir_accord.pdf

[______________Salada]

As I understands it, that particular clause of Tir Accord is for dealing with the ownership of the areas that are controlled by no one. So by Tir Accord, PW will be considered Omni terroritory.

[Moradus]

This is a part greatly overlooked by a lot of the citizens of Rubi-Ka, I wonder how many have even bothered to read the Tir Accord. I regulary meet people that have no idea what the Tir Accord is, and are surprised when they hear that it's a document that they can "download" and read.

The last outcry from the Neutral Coalition ( http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...articles/4160L

In the Tir accord it's made very clear that the only area with full Neutral status is Newland City. (Didn't know there was Notum deposits in Newland )

As for the areas mentioned in the Tir accord, they are a little outdated, as some areas have changed name. I do not have my old maps available, but I think VW was named Northern Artery Valley, and I would say that Athen West and Warthorn Valley are included in Athen Shire and Aegan.

Outside Newland City we also see Neutral guards in Borealis, Last Ditch and a few other places. But again pointing to the TA, that does not make those areas neutral. Omni-Tek have full legal control over those areas and could as I see at any time post guards there, ordering the netural guards to leave the areas.

Looking at this, as far as I can see, Omni-Pol can at any time enter f.ex Reet Retreat and arrest any clanner present there.

If we then look at Annex 2A, Omni-Tek forces do in fact have the right to stop any clanner in their areas, strip them of all armor and weapons, before putting them in jail and sending a report to CoT.

More interesting. If we look at Annex 2B. OT can send Omni-Pol into Tir city to investigate, and the only thing they have to do is to inform CoT of the number of personell.

------------------------------------------------------

But even more interesting is the last days news. What happen if the CoT is disbanded. Is the Tir Accord and it's Annex's still valid?? And if not what will happen. OT is still the superior governing body of Rubi-Ka.

I can see nothing else than all areas given to the CoT to supervise is returned to full OT control. And what will this result in?? War?? A new council?? I'd say we're in iteresting times right now.

Moradus
Loayal OT Citizen

[_________Crazynotion]

This is how I read the existing situation. I could be completely and 100% wrong, but you never know.

Neutral territories are territories in which the 'no go' aspects of the Tir Accord are not as rigorously enforced. Places such as Borealis, 20k, Harry's, Last Ditch and other neutral areas that are not in the 'Council approved' territories are officially OT, but the presence of neutral territories benefits OT where they like it (the bank balance) by allowing them to effectively trade economically through to the Clans despite being in a state of open hostilities.
So they turn a blind eye.

Land ownership does include 'sub-zones' - the Tir Accord refers to geographical regions and is encompassing, it doesn't refer to playfields since the concept of 'playfield' is not something a native of Rubi-Ka would have a concept of. Thus, Wartorn Valley is not a seperate area - it is part of the region in which it sits.

As for the disparity in 'controlled lands' it is very much evident that Omni-Tek controls the lions share of the land, and has the better quality land to boot. Things like the Longest Road facility may even fall outside the Council jurisdiction, since the borders of clan/OT control were set when the Accord was signed. Thus any new facilities way out in the wastes may not be inclusive, meaning that as terraforming proceeds the controlled land ratio (clan:OT) shifts more and more in OT's favour.

On top of that, OT are allowed to maintain Omni-AF garrisons in Council territories as per the 'security of the planet' agreement. These stations are ostensibly in response to the Dust Brigade attacks, so the placement of those facilities is (currently) legal.

The Tir Accord is *not* a fair document. Omni-Tek have political and military clout to rival multiple solar systems, and the clans are a bunch of disaffected miners in one part of one planet. So the Tir Accord is very much slanted in OT's favour. Essentially, the Tir Accord outlines a 'change' in the lease agreement - giving a small parcel of land to the Clans, while anything not explicitly mentioned remains as dictated in the ICC lease agreement: all your base are belong to Omni-Tek.

* * *

The Tir Accord is an agreement between the Council of Truth and Omni-Tek. It isn't between the Clans and Omni-Tek. If the Council were disbanded, you can bet your bottom dollar that OT lawyers are going to read it by the letter, not by the spirit.

So yes, if the Council disbands then the Tir Accord effectively becomes void - causing all listed territories to revert back to the law as covered by the ICC lease.

* * *

As an interesting aside, this also means that any clan not a member of the Council of Truth is not protected by the Tir Accord either, and as such are not covered by the legal extradition or any guarantee of fair trial or standard criminal prosecution procedure. In fact, Omni-Tek could demand that Council members arrest known criminals currently seeking assylum in Council territories (as per the Tir Accord) and complain breach if they're not turned over to Omni-Tek for prosecution.

* * *

Usual disclaimer - FC are currently going over everything with a fine-tooth'd comb, so this could all be entirely lies and deceit. But that's my current understanding of the situation.

[Praecautus]

Moradus, we of the neutral coalition are fully aware of the Tir Accord.

The points raised in the article you cite are mentioned as topics up for debate at the council. How our council will decide matters is another matter. Perhaps we will ask for another ammendment to the Tir Accord allowing the neutrals to govern our own affairs in the places we call. The article should be taken more as a notification to neutral players and groups that the coalition is reconvening after an absence.

We are worried about the political situation in the north amongst the clans and feel we should band together for mutual protection and support. This may cover topics such as debating a change in how the neutral towns are governed. As pointed out in a recent TAG article, we (the neutrals) have no leaders. well perhaps we may be getting some now.

OOC this may get us called a faction, but that is something we have had to live with for several months now.
The second reason for the council is very OOC and that is to give the neutral guilds and players a unified voice when speaking to funcom on matters that concern or appear to concern us directly, such as lack of miir clothing , guard killers, and the infamous 'shades of grey' quote. If we happen to add some fun RP madness along the way, surely that isnt a bad thing?

[_________Crazynotion]

No Miir!!??!?

That's terrible!

Time to put pressure on Omni-Reform to establish Miir shops in neutral territories as soon as possible!

[Arila]

Hah! the neutrals will remain under Omni Law! If you want protection, then join Omni-tek!!! If you are so affraid about the clans, then you should rather request that Omni-Tek provide better guards then those ICC scum you go now!!

And as for the territorial agreements... Everythign thats not mentioned to belong to the clans are Omni-Tek domain, this goes for the whole planet, not only the terraformed areas.

OOC: Always wanted to play evil

[_________Crazynotion]

I feel it only prudent, Arila, to politely point out your signature. You may want to consider revising your 'ICC scum' statement?

[_____________Kirrana]

Mechanita is right in many aspects, but the Tir accord is fair, by all rights the ICC granted Omni-Tek full control in lease of the planet Rubi-Ka.

By all rights only they have any legal claim to the land of Rubi-ka, after the war with the clans the Tir accord was set to provide peace and Omni-Tek's good will granted clan there own lands under the conditions listed in the accord.

However it should be noted that Omni-Tek only reconizes the COT as being true clan, thus only the 12 noted clans in COT are covered by the Tir accord. Any other clans outside this group are conisder outlaws, rebels and criminals. Thus these clans are unable to hid behind the Tir Accord and are granted no land.

Neutrals where see as the traders, the people coming to Rubi-Ka in order for business of some kind or just to live. While claiming no rights Omni-Tek deemed the neutrals as harmless, even helpful so by in large Omni-Tek have left them alone.

Sadly the war with the clans did see the neutrals caught up in the matter on both side caught in the cross fire so to speak.

[lilnymph]

Not too sure if I am correct in this, but I think omni tek actually turns a blind eye to neutrals. This started after they had just finished fighting the Corporated war, and had suffered heavy penalties. When the neutrals appeared Omni-Tek decided to let them be, rather than face another charge about treatment of its colonists in the ICC. So I think its not a case of Omni-Tek using the Neutrals as a way of make a quick buck trading with the clans, but rather a case of avoiding either penalties or further changes to the lease, because they clamped down on the neutrals, and another corporation used that fact against them.

Hugs

lilnymph

[______________Luxxan]

Being a member of the free Clans, I certainly feel that the Tir Accord can do more for us, but I also consider it to be quite beneficial as it is. My only concern is making sure I understand the ramifications of the the Accord.

For example, Kirrana stated that only the twelve main clans are considered actual parts of the CoT. However, I would think that any clan which affiliates itself with the CoT has all the rights and protections of the CoT. Otherwise, all the minor clans, which are the majority of the rebels, have no representation and the CoT has no power.

I do agree that more needs to be done to document the position and status of the neutrals. As of now, the only official neutral area is Newland. However, there are no rules to explain how Omni and Council personnel should interact in such an area as well as the legality of their presence or actions. For example, I have a feeling that the ICC would strongly disapprove of the constant slaughter of their military personnel outside Newland City by Omni employees and unaffiliated clan members. Most importantly, there is no documentation of the rights of the neutrals and what areas they are allowed to occupy.

Also, while I understand that Omni-Pol is allowed to do "routine" investigations in the interests of "national security" it is required that the CoT approve such action. As the Accord says "No Council or affiliated personnel within the boundaries of Council-allocated districts may be available for Omni-Pol questioning without the prior consent of the Council." This means that while I am in Clan territory, I am not required to cooperate with any Omni-Pol investigation unless the Council has specifically listed me prior to the investigation. I have no problems with this, and while I'm sure Omni will try to strong arm their way into violating this (coercing the Council's "approval" after the fact, etc), the Accord gives us express legal protection when in our own areas.

However, when in neutral areas I may very well not have this protection, which means that I could be taken prisoner and interrogated just for being in Newland City. While Omni is legally required to "notify" the Council of such abductions, the Council has no real power to protect me outside of it's territory. This is a major issue for any clan member.

[_________Crazynotion]

((OOC post))

I think the OT-neutral situation is a huge combination of them all. Like RL, there's more than one contributing factor.

OT make money off the neutrals.

OT don't get harassed by the ICC for hounding the neturals.

OT can point at the neutrals and say 'Look! They're being peaceful and we're leaving them alone!' when ICC inspectors or whoever come by.

OT can trade with the clans through the neutrals

OT can make use of the neutral territories for instigating covert operations.

OT can make contact with certain clan factions in these areas without raising undue su****ions

And the downside:

OT have to be wary of covert operations by clanners in the same area

When you way up the pro's and con's, OT have every reason to leave the neutral territories neutral. It's better that way.

[_________Crazynotion]

However it should be noted that Omni-Tek only reconizes the COT as being true clan, thus only the 12 noted clans in COT are covered by the Tir accord. Any other clans outside this group are conisder outlaws, rebels and criminals. Thus these clans are unable to hid behind the Tir Accord and are granted no land.

No Council or affiliated personnel within the boundaries of Council-allocated districts may be available for Omni-Pol questioning without the prior consent of the Council.

Now unless my logic fails me, this means that if you're not CoT, then you're eligable for a polite chat with Omni-Pol no matter where on the planet you are, and the CoT cannot legally lift a finger to help you. This means that all Omni-Pol have to do is drop a note into the council of truth stating that there is an interest of national security, and that they aren't after anyone who is Council or affiliated. Just passing through - don't want to bother you important council folks with something that's purely our problem.

[______________Luxxan]

Originally, this was Omni's planet. They leased it and they were the only ones legally allowed to be on it. As a result, anyone on the planet was either an employee or trespassing. However, just in the last year, the planet has been opened to off-world colonization. This, combined with the Tir Accord, have created a large group of people who live on the planet which are not associated with Omni-Tek. However, since Omni still needs to be making money off this planet, they need rules which govern these new colonists. From Omni-Tek's perspective, there is almost no difference between the Clans and the neutrals. They are both non-employees taking up space. The single difference is that any clan member is militarily opposed to Omni-Tek occupation while the neutrals are assumably non-confrontational.

I honestly don't see why Omni-Tek should consider the neutrals any different than your average clan member. While a clan member is potentially violent, they are both non-employees who should have restricted access to any area designated Omni, and should be carefully contained in designated areas. Not to mention that due to recent ICC deregulation, many of these neutrals may be scouts for competing corporations and Omni would definitely want to keep on eye on them.

[______________Luxxan]

Originally posted by Mechanita


Now unless my logic fails me, this means that if you're not CoT, then you're eligable for a polite chat with Omni-Pol no matter where on the planet you are, and the CoT cannot legally lift a finger to help you.

I'd really like to see the source for this claim that Omni only acknowledges 12 clans to be the "official" Council. Honestly, I think that even if the core of the CoT is governed by 12 clans, the wording of the Accord protects any clan which associates itself with the CoT. As it says many times "CoT and affiliated personnel" which means anyone officially CoT and anyone affiliated with the CoT. To me affiliated means any clan which acknowledges the authority of the CoT.

[_________Crazynotion]

A number of clans do not recognise the authority of the CoT. Whehter the specifics are that you have to be one of the 12, or that you simply have to recognise their authority (and, I would say, be recognised by the CoT), the ends are the same.

If you're not affiliated with the council and are not designated as a neutral, then you're in for a rough time.

I've seen a number of clans posting information on their website that they do not respect the authority of the CoT because they feel the CoT are not looking out for clan interests. Do the Council immediately recognise anyone who carries the banner of Clan no matter who they are? Do they recognise 'duster' groups like CAS?

[______________Luxxan]

I agree that clans which do not ally with the CoT are fair game. Technically, the CoT and affiliates have an obligation to apprehend these people as well. The specifics on what makes you a real CoT affiliate are yet another missing piece, though. At this point, I'd say that anyone who espouses the CoT be considered an affiliate. Those clans which openly snub the CoT leadership are obvously not. And that's the best we have.

[Brad, STL/MO]

All three sides drag out the Tir Accord when it's to their advantage to do so. All three sides mumble and change the subject when confronted with glaring violations.

The Tir Accord specifically limits the neutrals to Newland City (no smaller and less convenient box being available at the time). Legally, they have no business occupying abandoned mining towns (Borealis, Last Ditch), let alone building new ones (Hope, Home).

What's Omni-Tek doing about it? About the same thing they're doing about the blatantly illegal Clan military bases in Omni-Forest, Pleasant Meadows, and Wine. About the same thing the Council is doing about the equally blatantly illegal Omni-Tek military bases in Avalon and Greater Tir County. Ignore them as much as possible, stage occasional raids or police actions, and hope the problem goes away.

On the other hand, Omni-Pol guards aren't supposed to open fire on law-abiding neutrals or Clanners, either. Under the Tir Accord, if I'm walking around in Omni-Trade in civilian clothes and unarmed, the guards are supposed to say, "Have a nice day!" or at most, "Stay out of trouble, rebel scum." If they suspect me of a crime, they're supposed to arrest me - not send me to Reclaim. Tir Accord? What Tir Accord?

Similarly, the neutrals aren't supposed to be mining notum. The Clans are allowed to mine notum, but they're only allowed to sell it to Omni-Tek, at Omni-Tek wholesale prices. Now, I'm not saying I've got proof that they're doing otherwise. But I've sure seen plenty of mining tunnels in odd places, some of them thoroughly camouflaged against anyone farther than a dozen meters away. And gosh, the Clanners and the neuters sure seem to have more military hardware, and bigger construction budgets, than you'd expect under those circumstances, and gosh, there's a lot of talk about off-world smugglers, and gosh, there's a lot of illegal off-world hardware rattling around.

The only reason we aren't using the last copies of the Tir Accord for bathroom tissue is that the people on both sides who run this planet are all survivors of the Second Rubi-Ka War, and they still prefer a flawed, poorly negotiated, and frankly violated cease fire to another all-out civil war. That reluctance to admit that the Tir Accords are being violated is made worse by the presence of people claiming to be the Dust Brigade, which means that if war breaks out all over again, we may have to fight it without Resurrection Technology, just like the previous generation of Rubi-Kans did at the end.

I pretty much agree with them. I'm mostly happy with the status quo, myself.

(Oh, and the opinions stated above are the personal opinions of Brad "InfamousBrad" Bradley, and are not the official positions or policies of the Tir County Sheriff's Department.)

[Destractor]

OT may have legal control of the areas, but most of the neutral outposts are owned may separate syndicates and mercenary groups. (see 20k, hope, harrys)

The cities are much the same, but with slighty more friendly groups.

OT don't bother them most of the time as they are small fry compared to the clans and no reasons to harm OT interests in any large scale. An attack on non terrorist groups would not be good PR for OT, and may not be seen favorably by the ICC.

I believe some of the city counsils have some understanding with OT and the clans, so that neither sides citizens may be harmed in these cities.

I would imagine the Tir accord was endorsed by many of these city counsils in exchange for the free running of them.


(or thats the way I see it at the mo)

[______________Luxxan]

Also keep in mind the recent whompa construction and network expansion funded by the ICC and the opening of the ICC headquarters in Andromeda to the public. Obviously, the neutrals are not a minor force on Rubi-Ka as they are represented by very powerful off-world forces. There is no mention of any of the areas which are currently linked by ICC whompa in the Accord but I would hardly say they are in violation of the Tir Accord as the ICC is the one that ratified the Tir Accord in the first place.