Funcom: How to implement a fair IP reclaim scheme

[Red Falcon]

Originally posted by Wolfe

Next thing is to add Snarf's machine to the game. Instead of taking 100 hours/use make it eat 5 million credits/level of the char who uses it. This will stimulate the economy and make it expensive enough for people to actualy make credits valuable again. (Maybe 5 mil/level is a little much, 1 mil/level could be enough)

The high level play in AO really needs a money drain, there is nothing in the game worth paying for atm.

I agree that there's no high level monetary drain, but utterly destroying the economy is not 'stimulating' it.

Does a level 50 char have 250 million credits? Or even 50 for that matter? If so, I must be in the wrong world. Even a level 100 char with 100+mil is rare unless they're a twink of someone even higher.

The usefulness of such a reset would be nullified. It'd be easier to reroll than to get that much cash. Oh, I know, certain level 1xx people have had that much cash for so long they forgot the rest of the world exists.. Why even bother with a change like this if it would affect 5% (at most) of the population?

Making things excessively (and inexplicably) expensive is just a time drain. And time drains typically make your playerbase hate you. What then would be next, camping the rare spawn for 72 hours straight to get the rare nodrop item?

If something such as this were to be added, it should be fairly affordable (NOT cheap, but affordable) and only be usable once within a certain period of time. Once per week of /played maybe.. people don't make THAT many mistakes with their skills, and I'd hate to see someone running around with a new set of skills every day.

All these things aside, I doubt we will see IP resets coming into the game on a persistant basis.

Though a one-time reset leaves us open to the same problems that lead to the problems we now face: Future adjustments will cause things to differ from what they are now, and what were once wise choices will again become mistakes.

[______________Obitus]

After I buy my next set of implants, my need for money will be almost eliminated. I will still need to buy heal kits and nano chargers, but there will be no real hardware that I will need to buy any more. I am lvl 135 with approx 7.5 mil and my money is increasing greatly with every ql 200 item I sell.

Part of what is ruining the economy is all the changes to the game. For example: I know a person that sold a set of Knight Armor for 70 million credits. The very next day, the armor was removed from the game. I wonder what Funcom did to compensate the person that just lost 70mil. Six slot belts and 64NCUs were removed from missions and caused wide spread price gouging and the sale of these items on Ebay.

The ease or difficulty to aquire an item dictates the price just as in real life. Silver costs more than tin and gold costs more than silver. The rarer the item, the higher the price.

As for an IP wipe...
This would help eliminate any IP exploits that may have taken place and would help restore some lost IP due to game bugs. Other than that, it would only allow us to correct the mistakes we feel that we made early in the game with IP distribution and allow for further tweaking of skills and abilities. A "second chance".

[___________Avatarius]

I like your idea Snarf, has a good deal of merit.

But I do tend to share the concerns of those who fear templating and trying to creature uber and/or cookie cutter characters.

But quite frankly if Funcom gets off their tushes and balances and diversifies the classes, this would not be as big a problem.

I guess I'd like to see the time limit between hits be long enough
to prevent templating but be short enough to be useful.

The whole IP allocation thing is a bit hokey anyways, never understood it's rationale especially in a sci-fi world anyways.

But if you can only reset one skill at a time and a good duration of time can lapse between additional resets, what the heck sounds good to me. I like the idea of being able to try new things and new paths *without* needing to reroll every time!

This could actually help create diversity once Funcom begins fixing/adding/enhancing various weapons and tradeskills.

You might consider though prohibiting reseting things like basic abilities... how do you unlearn agility or unlearn strength? Those should probably be kept permanent.

Good think Snarf..

Av.

[Sunraven]

Way to go Snarf!
A sensible idea. I like the idea of being able to reset a skill and haveing a clean wear window makes it impossible to equip something then get the ip back for the skill.
It would give me a chance to try out using a weapon as an ma.
As for someones idea of it costing 1mil a lvl or whatever to reset that just not possible till you are making uber money ( at lvl67 I have managed to save 1.5mil to try to get a yalm)

I didn't know about the ip exploits so I reckon a mandatory reset is a good idea too.

Combine the 2 ideas Funcom like others have said it would increase diversity when you get everything working and balanced.

Sunraven
lvl67 ma
Ragnarok Inc.

ps. anyone know how I can change the name I post under to a character I use?

[skybert]

Originally posted by Wildraven
ps. anyone know how I can change the name I post under to a character I use?

"user CP" on the top of this page.

[______________Avanza]

I don't get it... Why on earth are you thinking of implementing a IP-reset????? To
me it's plain suicide.

Be careful Funcom. I am certain this change will make the game far less interesting to
play.

Am I the only one who thinks 2HO was a kick ass place before the grid was moved
and the guards where stationed there? I wasn't camping that place. But when I got
at mission to Stret East Bank I knew I had to snap out of the mindless-poundering-
of-mutants-slumber or I'd get my ass kicked by a sniping clanner. Why did Funcom
do this change to the world? I don't know at all, but I suspect they were getting
complaints from mission runners stating that "Daad!! I can't do my mission coz some
stupid grid camper keeps killing me all the time. It aint funny! Sob." Ok, thats another
subject but I am afraid Funcom is getting the same kind of complaints and are trying
to come up with an idea on how to save the same players when they at level 50 or
100 suddenly realise that they suck.

I love this game! I don't think I am alone if I say that the moment I love the most starts
with a backflip accompanied with a "ding" and some "gratz!". The moment ends with me
clicking Accept in the skill window after carefully placing the sparse IP you was rewarded
with. This is the essence of the game, Funcom. If you make this unimportant you will ruin
your game.

How to implament a ip reclaim scheme? Don't! Don't! Don't!

[_______________Valen]

Originally posted by Satherial
The only reasons I'm for an IP wipe is to let people get back their points for pistols (they're useless)

Why not fix pistols instead of wiping IP's?

In general, though, I'm not very favorable of an IP wipe....never have been. Particularly a repeatable one. Being able to wipe IP's whenever you want is too severe, and would allow you to customize your character for the level you are playing (often what will allow you to level faster at low levels will hurt you in the long run).

I really only feel that IP "adjustments" should be made for cases where IP's where lost, not just because people made bad choices in their allocation of them. And people who made good choices should be rewarded for that. Even in a one time IP wipe, those who made good choices and may now have more unique characters are going to become the flavor of the month choices.

And I'm speaking as a pistol wielding doc (I made my IP mistakes, I'm willing to live with them).

[Beatenblue]

I'm all for a mandatory IP wipe first, to get rid of the exploited IP and get back IP lost for whatever reason

Then for a booth that undoes a skill for you with intervals between usage, as for that making more cookiecutter chars...

Who cares... the cookiecutters will level and level and level, get bored and most significantly be out of my lvl range (or something like that)
I on the other hand might be inclined to try out different weapons for fun... "Nah, today I found this wierd bow in the store... So I went to that fancy reeducation machine they put up in Fair Trade and learned how to use the bugger" Nice eh?

I have 4 agents currently working their way up the levels with different weapons Rifle/bow/shotty/1he but you know what that becomes boring to have to do the same things 4 times over to have fun...

I'm for one is sick and tired of seeing (almost) every Enforcer runnning around with a hammer or beam, Agents with rifle and so on... because they are afraid of trying anything else out of fear of Gimpdom...

hmz, does this make sense "Reeducation machines makes less cookiecutter characters"

PS I know there will be a couple of "uber" cookiecutter characters out there... but their names will quickly be learned and avoided

[______________Neikos]

IT'S A WONDERFULL IDEA!!!

[OrionNT]

I agree with Ming's Idea on how it should be done.

[___________Stercoral]

Why not combining Snarf idea to a percentage ?
(I did not read every posts and a few days passed)

Let's say you will be able to delearn 20% of what you've learn in every skill (or so). You will be, for example, allowed to do it once, in front of a new machine. Or the first time for each skills it's free then second time it costs something, third time it costs more and....
An nearly total IP wipe is possible, but it will cost a lot of millions cred.
Combine that with some time limitation and level limitation (not before level 15 for example), won't it work ?

[_______________Johan]

No machines. Machines suck.
We need a skillbased NPC who can educate you or de-educate your skills. They can also give quests based on the stat they 'master' in (martial arts quest etc)

Never mind my ideas =)

[_____________Paldorr]

I like it, Snarf! I won't hold my breath but it could actually help a whole lot of parked 'toons back onto the road of viability.

We'll call it the "Snarfilizer."

[Breaku]

snarfilizer lol !!

just one thing... maybe not have it in a store beside the surgery clinic.. i don't want to pushing the "snarfilizer" instead of the surgery clinic and resetting my ips.

It should be in a location thats not populated AT ALL .. b/c the last thing u want is lag when your resetting your ips.

have several machines... maybe have signs pointing the road to them? i dunno just some ideas

-cub

[Bauxite]

This is the reality of 2h0 for levels 75-100:

1) Get mission that requires passing through 2h0 whompa/grid unless you want to take an extra half hour side trip.

2) Set slider to full def and get in yalm. Change CLOD/view ditance down real damn low for quickest loading possible.

3) Zone into 2h0 via wompa or grid. Take 2-3 seconds to load...on a top end system during off-peak playing hours.

4) Get killed in 2-5 shots by a squad of level 150+ clanners who can kill you when you still have 10 seconds left on your pvp grace timer.

5) Petition GMs about people able to attack and kill you the instant you zone. While loading basically...this was how it was before the stupid worthless non-functional grace timer.

6) Wait 4 hours camping mission terms, stand up for 2 minutes to take a whizz, come back and GM has sent you a message 3 times, then canceled your petition.

S.T.F.U. about 2h0, its total BULLSH1T!!!

Don't believe me? Take a 75 omni through the whompa or grid.

[Vlados]

Nice idea Snarf...
Though...

I'd like a "One time wipe all skills" command.
After that you could use the machine of yours...

[_______________Dokar]

I don't think that ppl should be able to reset their IPs more than once. Give them an /ip reset type command, and that totally wipes their IP (they gotta be totally naked to do this, you all know the drill...) and that resets everything, player starts back at basic maps, no map machines, they're totally naked. Then they can rebuild their character. If they still aren't happy with it, then tough luck. I wasted some IPs on my enforcer, if we had an IP reset, then I could redistribute them, but I wouldn't make the same mistake twice
Basically, it has to be a one-time thing. No machines, no second or third IP resets, one per character. Otherwise it just wouldn't work - having to pay money to reset IPs? I don't HAVE much money, with any of my characters... perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but to me, every hundred credits is valuable! If I want to buy new armour, I save up, in fact, I've been saving for some decent armour for about 5-6 levels now
And a level based IP reset is unfair to lower levels. It's bad enough that some guilds have level restrictions (although i DO understand why) let alone have it so that lower characters can't IP reset. A single IP reset chance is the fairest way to do it.

[______Biffstatsnugly]

Well i can see where a IP wipe would be a positive thing and i can understand why many people would not like it. Myself i play a 90 lvl Doctor and have alot of earlier failed character attempts at various lvls ranging from 32 - 81 lvl. Of my favorite Gimp my 70 engie i have a ton of wasted IP's being my first character in game, this was at the game start and noone around knew anything about the game and i misspent about 90% of my IP's. changed weapons every gun i found and totally hosed him. On the other side of the coin.

My Doctor was made right after that attempt and i was lucky enough to play early on and got ahold of 3 rings of knowldege, which i put in my bank and never even though about for some time. When i did get around to using them that was a nice 15,000 IP boost to the character. I would hate to lose the extra points but i understand that the items are not in game any longer and in all reality is a unfair adavantage that others do not have(even though i doubt it would matter in pvp combat as i suffer from duel pillow syndrome) Which along with the IP exploits caused by some of the IP rings not using charges when used but giving the 1000 IP points. I have to say that im in favor of the wipe. The lost points will be a bad thing but too many people have suffered changes to their classes.

Enforcers buff's
Soldiers Mark Shield
Advent Duel Wield
Doc's Pillows and Duel Wield
Agents Conceal and Aim

Im sure i left out a few as well.... Along with all the weapons that where removed from the game...(Freedom Arm's)(Oringal Nova Flow) this changed how alot of us play and forced alot of rerolls, my question is why should i be stuck playing a Gimp becuase someone changes the rules?? How many of the new players would change sides on this issue if tommorow found that they had the main stat for a weapon altered or damage dropped? Or have that same weaon no longer duel wieldable? Im sure you would be complaining then about the 300 skill you have in a dark duel wield skill?

Anyway just some food for thought, not all people are lucky enough to get it right on the first try.....and other's have the rug pulled out when they do.

[kallekoben]

2 suggenstions :

1)Create a marker next to skills and make people able to set in on active or passive. If active the skill will remain, if passive the skill will decay. Decaying a skill would take some time - 1 point / game hour (?). That way people could remove spend IPs, but wouldnt be able to switch weapon by reducing all in rifle, and putting it to shotgun.

2) Pay at the machine to get back your IPs. Pay like 10 credits /IP point you want back.

BUT :

Make skill matter when firing a weapon. Why can a soldier fire a weapon when he doesn't have the skill. If he had 540 in shotgun and 600 was requirement on weapon, he should be able to carry the weapon, but shouldn't be able to wield it and actually use it.

Else you could raise your shotgun skill, wield the shotgun and decay the weapon over time if 1) were to be implemented.

- Kairalaa

[_____________Nakomis]

I don't understand somehting here. Everyone is always talking about overequipping and such in the same manner that Spiffy just did. Basically they say that if you don't have the skill, you shouldn't be able to use it at all. A lot of people have thrown in some "'cuz that's how it is in RL" things too. People aren't realizing that weapons and such should NEVER be completely disabled, unless you have ZERO in the skill.

I mean, let's face it. Spiffy, if that particular soldier you spoke about indeed had 540 in shotgun, but _needed_ 600, then there should still be some viablility to the weapon. He's had enough training with shotguns to the point that he knows which end to point at the bad guys, how to reload, and probably how to pull the trigger and cycle rounds. Now, he might not be very good at aiming, or using special functions on that particular shotgun, like burst or fling, but he could indeed fire off shots without a hitch.

Decreased skill, definately.
Complete and total usability (a la current situation), no.
Turning a 60000 cred shotgun into a large ql100 paperweight? Bad bad bad idea.

Catch ya planetside.