Exploiters, overequipping and the rest.

[Hildegaard]

What on earth do you people mean by "DD" ?

[xbmspec]

Well. Instead of a *total* wipe on IP how bout the skills that have been effected? Duel Wield Pillows for example!

To me its makes easier and put the now usless IP into something a little more usefull rather than all becoming "clones"

[_____________Barakon]

Publius, DD = direct damage as far as I know, aka nuke.

Its pretty funny the way NT(the ones most pushing for this change) complain how they are at a big disadvantage to other professions, I remember when I grouped for several hours with a soldier who dearly wanted the unique assault rifle found on General Serverus, damn that guy is tough. Anyway with a group of 5-6(one of which was a pretty good doc) we managed to kill him a few times but he kept dropping the pistols. We got an NT in the team at one point and it was sooo much easier, he could nuke for 1000+ damage at a time, unfortunately he couldnt stay long and the soldier was practically begging him to stay and help(the soldier was doing between 20-80 damage on avg and burst/fullaoto for 300-600 approx. with a novaflow obviously).


As for MA weapons not stacking their damage with your normal damage, I looked back in the patch archives on it. It states you need very high skill to gain the cumulative effects(Funcom thoughtfully neglected to say how much skill...), dunno whether its broken right now or what but yes, MA can overequip those weapons(like I said it may be broken or whatever, but the point is its supposed to work and thus you have the ability to over-equip them).

[Xeni]

I agree that this changes would make the game balanced somewhat.
But the trader will be über in team that is already overequiped, maybe even more wanted than the doc is nowadays.

What i would like to point out is that buffing of other people have been a very good, and for many the primary, income.

When this changes are implemented, you also have to, or already have implemented, a better way to organize tradeskillitems. This is both for character and for whole factions.
Who dosent end up with alot of these items?? They need to get their own inventory, where they could be easier sorted and catogorized. Having an organiztion bank, with the same futures, would also make the exchange of tradeskill items easier, and make it easier to build the weapon or item they need.

IP: If a IP wipe was to be implemented and i got 50k IP unused before it, I hope i can have atleast 50k IP after the wipe too.

[___________Watermite]

Look.

I have a 23 Enforcer that managed to self-buff and self-equip a ql 45 hammer (Implants +10, Challenger +30, 2-hand blunt expertise +20, Strength/Stamina base buffs +12, Essence increase Strength/Stamina +5). With that, I was able (barely) to equip a hammer that is nearly 100%% of my level. I did it legally.

Now, you're saying that I can't do this anymore? This is exploiting? I use the tools you gave me, succeed, and suddenly that's bad.

Anyway, I prefer you didn't touch overequipping. It works, it's fine, leave the game alone. I have to admit, that I enjoy playing my Enforcer, but I'll gleefully find a different game if my having fun is jeopardized.

One of the things I liked about Anarchy Online was getting a new hammer, buffing the hell out of myself, and being able to just equip it. It made me feel like I had accomplished something.

In counterpoint to this is the suggestion that you rework the mobs and missions so that life is easier. So, you can either leave the game as is and endure these rampant overequippers, or you can ceaselessly tinker with it until no one is happy. Have you truly thought all this out?

I wonder if creature fixes would be enough. Funcom and the players have rarely seen eye-to-eye, will enough be done to make it so life doesn't tank downwards for the player, but Funcom is pleased with itself? I don't have that much faith that with a blanket reduction in player viability (for there is no other term for it), Funcom will appropriately adjust THE REST OF THE GAME. That's a lot of content to worry about.

In short, just leave us alone.

[xbmspec]

Oh and another comment. We must remember if we make armor less effective, or not work at all. How will Doctors sell their Iron Circle? The soul purpose of that spell I'd think is to help gain a few credits.

Most traders are sick of hearing "Wrangle me now". So seeking them for a wrangle each group would prolly start maken em charge more insaine prices than they are now ; )

And lower the MoB's mim dmg. Have all the AC in the world. And you still get beat down

[_______________Lozer]

Finaly ip reset.... i am all for the ip reset..... my adventure lost TONS of ip when they changed our skills..... i know TONS of nt's that lost TONS of ip when they changed the rules...... THIS WOULD BE A GOD SENT!

[Fowl]

Sniff... sniff... sniff... you smell that? Smells like Balance!

The only thing I would like to see is a Little tweak to some of the damage that weapons do. Bring these a little more center. As far as have one type of riffle, pistol, hammer (1H &2H), and sword (1H & 2H), do relatively the same amount of damage as compared to the others. This to me is crazy when an Enf of the same lvl is shooting as fast as I am swinging and doing 10 x's the amount of damage as I am doing per shot.

I think that you might find a lot of people dropping their normal weapons in favor of a variety that will do more damage, in an IP wipe. So we will see a lot more shooters and a lot less everything else. Now I know you purest out there, those of you who would never dream of altering your flawed character for a more perfectly laid out version, would never think about such a thing and will flame me for even saying such a thing, but I think the masses simply want to be the best they can be. I for one, given the opportunity for an IP wipe, will think very seriously about what kind of weapon I use the second time around. I can say with some certainty that it will not be a sword swinger. They are just to gimp. Ill be doing a lot of studying to see what is the best bang for the buck so to speak.

That’s just my opinion, I might be wrong...

[______________Xombie]

I take PRIDE in my level 33 ***Nanomage Enforcer*** wearing a full set of Quality Level 75 Elite armor, and wielding a Quality Level 75 ***Katana***.

I take an ASPRIN after the migrains i get from getting ganked by twinkers like this.
It does not matter how happy YOU are with overequipping, because for every person who likes it, there are a dozen that are getting screwed up the ass by it.

I have a 23 Enforcer that managed to self-buff and self-equip a ql 45 hammer

If you did it by yourself, then there is no problem. All you do is keep on the buffs and things that make your hammer equipable, and it will do the damage it's supposed to.

It is not a matter of wether or not overequipping is "fun", or if alot of people can do it. The fact is, it makes the game imbalanced, since many profs are unable to do it. It makes the game BORING because you'll have no reason to go past level 150. It makes the game STUPID because current overequipping is completely unrealistic, even in the context of a sci fi game.
You cannot use a level 100 item at level 10, if you do not "know" how. If you used to "know", that doesn't mean you can still use it. It's just plain silly.

[Seraphim]

This is about god damn time you making something good from your desk, unfortunately i would like to see a forced ip reset to take care of those ip cheaters that were around few months ago. In general everything looks nice and dandy and when i say that you people that i have read my post before knows that it requires alot for me to see anything positive with FC, did that say something?

[______________Xombie]

I wish people would quit using this thread to freak out and threaten people. The article said:

Disclaimer! Please understand that these are design suggestions, not promises, as to the way they should be implemented. View them as the general "gist" of things.)

They're not going to implement all of the stuff word for word. They're just offering up ideas.

[______________Foster]

Its my point entirely that changing the game constantly is screwing us up.
We all made characters and threw ip in places we shouldn't have. So we started a new character. And NOW we're going to go back and set up our characters just right? That's stupid. It was a lesson.
Are the people who want these big changes just unfamiliar with how to advance their characters? I know I was frustrated til I learned the need for good implants to the level of my character. It all became clearer. I DONT WANT TO RE-LEARN THE GAME. I sure don't want every character in AO flawless. What that does is create no weaknesses. Also as the person said, "..character's identity.."

If you want that, forget the big programming changes and just zap everyone to the same level and super-buff them permanently. Tada- Everyone is happy right?
No, you'll still find something to complain about. And force the programmers time to accomidate it.

Let's get the current bugs worked out before anything. I know missions can be buggy. That's been an ongoing issue from way back.

Anyways, don't be mad if others have what you want. I don't, and Im among the poorer citizens of Rubi-Ka.

(Apologies in advance if that all sounded too harsh.)

[Noe]

Originally posted by Foster
Its my point entirely that changing the game constantly is screwing us up.
We all made characters and threw ip in places we shouldn't have. So we started a new character. And NOW we're going to go back and set up our characters just right? That's stupid. It was a lesson.
Are the people who want these big changes just unfamiliar with how to advance their characters? I know I was frustrated til I learned the need for good implants to the level of my character. It all became clearer. I DONT WANT TO RE-LEARN THE GAME. I sure don't want every character in AO flawless. What that does is create no weaknesses. Also as the person said, "..character's identity.."

If you want that, forget the big programming changes and just zap everyone to the same level and super-buff them permanently. Tada- Everyone is happy right?
No, you'll still find something to complain about. And force the programmers time to accomidate it.

Let's get the current bugs worked out before anything. I know missions can be buggy. That's been an ongoing issue from way back.

Anyways, don't be mad if others have what you want. I don't, and Im among the poorer citizens of Rubi-Ka.

(Apologies in advance if that all sounded too harsh.)

I dont want what you have.

I want what you have to be taken away from you, plain and simple. ( i use the word "YOU" here in the general sense, not you in specific, Foster )

If you buffed into it legitimately , then you have nothing to fear.

Those who are objecting are those who have implants and kits in QL's above what is reasonable and acceptable.

You had your day, that day is over. Now you might just get "p0wnzz0red" by someone who can use tactics and keyboard play to beat you.../sniff sniff im so sorry; rather than stacking the deck so that they had no chance against you to begin with.

[______________Dragon]

Originally posted by Barakon
Stop trying to turn a game of chess into a simple game of checkers...


After a LOT of rerolling, the only profession I have any interest in playing anymore is the Engineer, I use only self-buffs, never had a wrangle in my life, only use implants I can find/buy/make myself. One of the fun things for me is to see how strong a bot I can make by pushing my equipment to its limits, if you make it so my bot stops responding just because it is too high QL.. bleh.

So? All we need to do is buff up with the timespace and matcre expertise and the bot is good as new again. Engineers using their own nanos aren't really affected, unless a trader debuffs you.

Originally posted by Barakon

It seems like most of the ppl saying these are such great changes are just newbies who havent learned the game yet or whiny NTs who are bitter about losing their ability to equip 2 pillows. You people just want to change AO into communism! Everyone will be the same, there will be little incentive to try making yourself better in this game because by the laws of the game you will always be made 'equal' even to those who are still playing there first char with its thousands of wasted ips and its bad choice of weapons etc...

Exactly the opposite I must say. With this scheme there will finally be a difference between an enforcer and a soldier. As it is now enforcers are a soldier using meele weapons.

Originally posted by Barakon

I am guessing most of us live in democratic countries(if you live in a communist country you probably wouldn't have access to this game), walk down a city street, see some ppl have nice clothes, nice cars, some have less nice clothes, less nice cars, what do you do if you want nice cars and nice clothes? you strive toward getting them, plain and simple.

Stop talking about communism, firstly because you don't even know what communism is. As it is now the only way to get as good as the over equippers is to belong to a large guild or have lots of money so you can pay someone to wrangle you into a weapon 50 ql over your level. Wrangles were never supposed to be permanent but using Gaute's suggestion you still can equip a weapon quite a few ql over your skills.

[______________Dragon]

Originally posted by Publius
What on earth do you people mean by "DD" ?

DD = Direct Damage, usually nano formulas that do damage to one or more target. AOE = Area of effect (don't know if any naonos do AOE)

[______________Dragon]

Originally posted by Itsuridesu
Going further on my rants and ravings of lunacy;
You want to balance gameplay, but as far as I can see it's pretty balanced. People want to gripe about how traderws have some nice Nanoprograms, you don't see me gripe about how Martial Artists at the same level as me can kill twice as many monsters as me, or how burrecrats\nano-techs\Fixers can use nanoprograms to summon critters to fight for them because they are too weak to fight on their own.

Fixers and nano-techs don't have pets. It's engineers and meta-phycisists (sp?) you mean. I know since I'm an engineer and my pet is my weapon to a higher degree than other pet classes. Both MP's and Bureaucrats have DD's I think.

[______________Nozzzs]

As I have pointed out a few times earlier on this board this game is incredibly too focused on shot for shot fighting..
i.e I hit mob, mob hits me, he shoots mob, mob shoots him, etc..

Until you round out all of the character classes and give them something to do beside hand to hanf fighting you will do a major disservice to the game. I hope people realize that the true purpose of these revisions is to expand the half-life of AO. At the present rate this game will be moot in a few short months. If we all enjoy this world, and the Funcom people enjoy their jobs, we should all work together to make it last!!

However, the course of action you describe will do nothing but slow down the power-leveling of groups using enforcers and soldiers as their backbone. Professions such as Engineers, MP's, and Traders (which I play) will be left with nothing to do but sit in the city. You have created a world rich in variety and opportunity but have crippled it with mismanagement and lack of imagination.
FIX THE PROFESSIONS FIRST!

As A Trader I am not asking for huge changes and to be made super powerful. However it woule be nice if my only green skills (trade skills) could be used to make something that is useful AND not bugged. Multiple lines of Trader nanos don't work. Range and pathing of nano programs is messed up. (I had a sign in the middle of a field cause someone to be out of range. It was between us) I beg you to deal with basic issues of functionality before you create a whole new rats nest...

Please note that I have avoided the classic listing of grievances associated with playign a Trader...But realize the list is long.
I have invested countless hours creating my character... It's a pity!

[_____________Barakon]

"Those who are objecting are those who have implants and kits in QL's above what is reasonable and acceptable." ~ Gardner1

I am objecting very loudly but, no, I don't have implants in way above my lvl. My newest and last reroll(want to get to see the very highest lvls before I get too bored and move on) is currently a lvl 24 solitus engineer, she has ql 30 implants all made by her own hands. She is dual-wielding one-handed ranged weapons which are somewhat overequipped right now(hard to over-equip those to any great extent thx to the *drumroll* dual-wield >>nerf<<.)

She has QL30 avg armor on right now, she can make a deep red bot using her own buffs(QL 31 I believe). I can certainly get higher lvl armor on since I already found 2 concrete cushions(just waiting for these to be >>nerfed<<, just a matter of time). I thought i'd be different with her and instead of being a senpai coat clone i'd wear some stylish armor with a visor instead of a helmet, to make up for no AC from lack of helmet I was going to use a ground carrier(lowest to equip i've seen is 200 ground vehicle skill) to boost her str enough to wear tank armor but i guess they are going to >>nerf<< the ground carrier soon.

Now I know at higherlvls I will be able to overequip her to a much greater degree than this, but whats the point? some of my best bots wont work if they implement some of these new >>nerfs<< and they definitely wont work if i get debuffed(especially if I made and summoned while holding a striped pillow).

Also, if I used 2 concrete cushions + 12 general str/sta buff(and yes I may sometimes also -buy- str/sta from enf or doc or -buy- sense/feline from an agent, helping them to become richer) my armor wont work at peak efficiency unless I keep the str, agi, sense and sta buff in my ncu ALL the time and the ground carrier certainly would make it impossible to wear tank armor so I have to wear some hideous helmet.

I do NOT want to turn this game into the buffing HELL that is Asheron's Call thank you very much!!!

I work very hard on this character, I want her to fight, command her bot and use her tradeskills at 120%! To do this I do not want to have to keep every self buff in my ncu constantly! With the new sweeping >>nerfs<< that are being suggested, my char wont be much better than someone else's who couldnt be bothered to put in anywhere near as much effort into building their char.

I can only see these changes benefiting PvP, but you know what? very few ppl give a damn about PvP- check the polls, why? Because its boring and pointless in this game! I gave up long time ago after my atrox adv got nuked to death by some NT I couldn't even see in 2ho, got pulverized by some MA in the arena using 'whatever floating in whatever' nano, got burst/fullauto while trying to poke through reflect shield by some soldier, etc... After this my atrox Meta got nuked/shot/etc by ppl sitting on rooftops, etc.. my pets killed the odd agent and NT but I was like hm ok, well that was nice.. go clans, we will surely win now, its only a matter of time before we can take over Omni-ent by winning l33t pvp battles.

They made some changes to PvP, did I try it out again? nope.
They intend to make more changes that will >>nerf<< a lot of ppl, will I try PvP again? nope. Do I even go to the arena, MMD, 2ho or any other 25% area anymore? even for senpai coat or nano cloak reward? nope. I would try it out again if many of Ddraig's Guild outpost ideas where taken seriously(see game mechanics), but as it stands I have 0% interest in it right now like many other ppl.

I play this game because I like making my char 120% and then showing her off to my friends when we relax and hang out while team-hunting. I couldn't care less about PvP, I would like NEW places to explore and NEW items to find each patch, not be constantly bashed to death by the >>nerf<< stick. I don't PvP, and most other players don't PvP so overequipping affects me and them not in the slightest, however this >>nerf<< does.

For you ppl who are so intent on trying to get more >>nerfs<< implemented: If you want to cleanse the stench of imbalance then go to Asheron's Call, that makes this game look perfectly balanced. Imagine one single wizard player wiping out half the town's defenders in minutes.(some of you know what i'm really talking about.. oh Darktide.. where a lvl 50 char can come along and kill all the lvl 1 new chars at the starting outpost, where one uber-buffed wizard could lay waste to a town of similar lvl defenders, where every single corner of the world is 0% suppression.. and you drop some of your armor, your weapons, your possessions when you die, free for your murderer to take).

This game is only just shakily getting back to its feet after the fiasco of some of the 12.x patches, plz leave it alone and focus on adding new content, mobs, items, static-places...

sorry the post is so long, and forgive me if some of my logic is flawed, i'm not as perfect as my char 8)

<edit for Dragon> NT have DD which can blast you and lower your nano skills, Meta have DD which can blast you and lower your nano skills, Meta can unmake your ts or mc. Traders have deprive/ransack obviously. And yes I have encountered mobs who cast unmake on you...

[______________Dragon]

Originally posted by Shaeidar[B42]
I'm all for lowering the usefulness of overequipped weapons.

That having been said, the best gun for a char should always be the one with higher ql. Getting good **** should pay off, but there has to be some limit to uber twinking.

As for IP reset i'm for that too, mainly beacuse I'm one of the unfortunate pistol advents.

Funcom: You realise you will have no pistol users left after an IP reset?
Doesen't that tell you that it needs balancing as well?
Can't say I approve of the"reroll if you spent ip wrong" argument, this meens that I should invest weeks or months into a character just to have it gimped because of some major game mechanic changes. Pistols used to a viable option.
Its not hard to reroll, its just that its boring to do the same **** over and over again.

All in all, good solutions I think.


//Shaeidar lvl 67 adv

There will be pistol users left. Pistols are the only viable weapon skill for an engineer since it is the only non blue weapon skill.

[_______________Cuffs]

I would just like to say, like many have said before me....that those ideas, 100% are the best ideas i have heard about making this game right....I am tired of going into the arena when I play fair to get my butt whooped by some twink who is 3 levels lower than me....kinda sad when you cannot even land a blow...

Like i said...absolutely perfect...and i HOPE this goes thru...

GENIUS!