"Fake" roleplayers (IC and OOC)

[Moradus]

Every day I wander the south part of Rubi-Ka, in may a disguise, this is one of them. I watch my fellow Omni citizens go about their jobs, and I meet and see the pretenders. The citizens that kill their own guards, bashing the Omni-Tek for being corrupt and I shake my head in disgust.

I've talked with some of these dissidents, asked them why they do their best to discredit something they are part of, and what do you think they answer??

"I'm not part of Omni-Tek"

Yet when I use my comm unit and do a check, there they are listed as citizens of Omni-Tek, and I again I ask them: "If you claim you are not part of Omni-Tek, why are you then listed as a citizen?" The answer I get are many, but they all contain the same basic thing. OT equipment is better, our shops are better, our bars are better, and "No one can force me to go clan, not even Omni-Pol"

<<OOC:

What do I mean with "fake" roleplayers, and why do I post this you might ask. Yes, I'm sure I'll get flamed, but I'm wearing my flameproof suit as usual.

First, Kudos to all that really play out thier alignment.

I've been watching and taking part of many discussions around this subject in the game, mostly in character, as that is how I prefer to stay when I play. The reson for this post is simple.

Some time ago, I watched some players confronted by Omni-Pol, ("Greenies"). They were killing guards (NPC's) when more guards showed up and ordered them to hold their fire. The "criminals" attacked the guards again, and was then attacked by the Omni-Pol reinforcements and killed. They came back and verbally insulted the guards.

One guard said that they should be carefull, or they could loose their citizenship. On this remark the gang just laughed and said, "So what, we'll just get an application form and join again."

This is just one of several incidents I've observed, but the worst. Why can't the "greenie" guards revoke the citizenship of players like that? I've also been in several verbal fights over this matter, once at Rompa, backing up another "greenie", Throll. Nice loyal citicen atrox.

This is what I mean with "Fake" roleplayers. Players that roleplay their alingment when they want, and for the rest of the time, just discard it as an inconvinience. Clanners crying out and complaining when they get shot at in Omni-1. We all abuse the game system from time to time. We all know that unless we act/roleplay with the others, be it official GM or ARK run characters or side loyal players, they can't do anything.

I ask you, how many of you would freely follow a guard when the guard told you that you were under arrest for breach of the Tir Accord??

If you claim to be a roleplayer, then be a roleplayer. What happen in the situation above if you don't make your char follow the guard. I'd say you give the guard only two options. 1. Deadly force, or 2. A bad stage exit. Now ask yourself again, what would you chose if that was your only two options??

>>

Moradus
Loyal OT Citizen

[____________Bonefish]

OOC: I suggest that the types of people you use in your example are not role-players at all. They are just dicks, and immature ones at that.

However, the real RPing community here does largely stick to its guns and follow the consequences of its actions. You just have to find the real RPing people, and not get bogged down by the dicks.

Other than that, I would have to say 'Amen' to just about everything you said.


Garret "Bonefish" Silvestrini
Director - SPARTA
Director of Operations, OTSEC

Founding Member of the Omni-Tek Security Council

garret.silvestrini@ot-sparta.org
www.ot-sparta.org

[Nevver]

((I like this point that you brought up. My guild, while Omni Tek, is a bit shady in nature and we do some questionable things. Just the other night, a player who was part of an Omni police guild came into Baboons and declared that he was going to search the place. Valaik, Taboo and I refused to let him do so without a warrant (we have things to hide!). Well, he left and returned about 5 minutes later with some form that he bought in a shop and showed it as the warrant. What else could we do at that point but let him search? Of course, we gave him a lot of static in the process.

Anyway, my point is that not every Omni-Tek employee is a model citizen. Yes, some of us make deals with outlaws and look to advance our own interests, but you're going to find that in any society. I don't think that rpers who kill guards have an excuse and I think that that those people should be tried in a kangaroo court and found guilty of treason. Those who are shady and criminals of other natures (selling stims, doing business with Clanners, etc.) should at least be kept a close eye on and expect trouble from Omni-Tek officials.

Of course, a lot of this is dependent on the player's right to have fun the way that they see fit. That is, I'm thinking that the guard killers that you encountered are not role players but rather just said they are loyal Omni-Tek citizens since they were confronted. Prior to that, they probably never gave it a thought as that type of player is typically not into roleplaying. So, is it okay to banish that player into Clan territory because they decided to kill a guard? As distasteful as I find killing guards on your own side, I don't think it would be right of me to impose that on the other player.))

[Moradus]

OOC: I just used a recent example of what I've seen, I could go further back in time, let's say, the so called "bloodbath" at Rompa Bar some months ago.

We all see from the current few ingame events that official Omni-Pol do no have any way to restrict us players, or force us to cooperate/roleplay with them. But when they then use option 1 of what I mentioned above, we, the players, flame them on these boards, shouting about bad roleplaying, but who are the bad roleplayers??

I myself was arrested outside Athen while on a mission, I was transported to the West Athen grid and told to get out, wich I did. It was fun, I had a lot of fun, other players around had a lot of fun, I could tell that from the shouts, and I'm sure the GM's and/or ARK's had fun. A lot more fun I would say than if I had stayed, refusing to move and forcing them to either make a bad exit or to save face and credibility, kill me.

Moradus
Loyal OT Citizen

[Nevver]

((The bloodbath was a bit different (new) and I think a lot of players were really surprised by the gas being lowered in the bar (myself included). In retrospect, Omni-Pol did a great job with that and I have some very fond memories of that night.

I think this comes down to what someone else was talking about when they said some explanation is needed when you intend to play an antagonistic role with another player who does not know you. Now, it would have been impossible for Omni-Pol to send a /tell to everyone in Rompa that night (and ruined the moment), but perhaps an explanation in the manual that such things should be expected would be a good idea. Being mowed down by a level 150+ greenie was quite a shock and I never expected it to happen - but it sure was wild!))

[________________Liss]

I agree Nevver...in a situation as the Rompa raid, It would be tough to let everyone know what is to transpire. However, in that light, I found it to be quite fun. As an omni citizen with clan friends I defended my friends as anyone would. I could clearly see my consequences. Leave peacefully, stage a sit in or take sides with my clan friends. I choose to stay and if that meant a chance that I be killed by my own side. Then so be it. That is my own right to make decisions as a citizen. Do I wish I would have known that raid was to come. Not really....I would rather live my life as I do day to day then to plan it out till my death. What fun is that to know your future and never waiver. I choose adventure. As for guard killers. I dispise them for their callus disregard for life. There is no excuse in my book to kill a guard less it is for a purpose as defense or struggle of sides in wars. To do it as a pastime or to gain xp., they are outside our realm and will remain so in my eyes. But again, the Rompa raid events had to be planned out some how for it to have gone off as well as it did and to that I salute the storytellers.

Liss

[Warlock]

Thats one reason why they should have RP servers and enforce them. Then you wouldnt have to keep checking out baboons/rompa for a greenie to see alittle RP action (yes I know you make your own RP but its nice to be 'gm'ed every once in a while)

I think that the game need a mechanic where a guard killer (same side) gets a faction change the same as if they used a form immediately (yes every time they do it) unless its an RP situation (i.e. guard gone bad or omni-guy on 'the wrong side' of the law). I appreciate that the conditional nature makes it difficult to code (an alternative is to have guards in this situation played by people).

Sure they get to change back after the time out but they will have a problem in the meantime (no shops, res position may be...interesting)

[_________Crazynotion]

Allow me to step in and be the spanner in the works.

If OT was to eject any person found guilty of committing a crime, they will re-apply and just walk right back in again. And what about if some clanner commits a crime? Do they get ejected from the clans?

While the notion of OT ejecting a person is a little easier to swallow (we are, after all, a single corporation rather than a bunch of disparate groups) I can easily see the guards in places like Athen or Tir not wanting to have a serial killer running loose on the streets there any more than we want them in Omni-1.

So what happens to folks that have been kicked out by both Omni-Tek and the CoT?

Not to mention that if Omni-Tek find and convict a criminal, *we* are responsible for handling the justice of said individual, and that doesn't mean dumping them on the Council of Truth.

Crime and punishment is a serious issue for all citizens of Rubi-Ka. Incarceration is a problem, as it leads to reduced profitability by the individual - and that is something Omni-Admin don't want to see.

I feel the best solution would be to issue security passes to different areas, and to beef up security in trouble spots. If someone wants to kill Omni-Pol personnel, then they should be moved to a different area and kept amongst their own kind. Preferably somewhere nice and near Council of Truth territories... but not *in* them.

Why give the enemy an additional gun when you can turn these people to work for the benefit of the company while letting them persist in their delusions?

If, of course, a citizen exhibits strong rebellious tendancies then expulsion may be the answer. If their political leanings are such that they would belong in the Clans, then sending them north to live in the squalor may be the best answer - but this should be addressed on an individual and case-by-case basis. I would hate to see this become the norm.

[_______________Gabro]

The largest problem about role playing is people who can't roleplay, don't want to role play, or just stumble on RPers not role playing and continue not to role play.

Some events have been ruined by this. I heard a while ago when the whole DB thing was happening. that one came to BS and said that he was done with DB because of their actions and wanted to help the community, 2minutes later he was shot down dead, maybe we could have found out the loc of DB etc.. But because of someone being too trigger happy, event was over before it began. That is one example of a "fake rper". Who would think to themselves in character, "Hey this guy has a lot of info about DB and will give it to us freely! Oh well it will be an awsome fight if I attack him, hmmm I think im just going to kill him."

[Nevver]

((But see, Melbu, while you and I feel that that sort of situation stinks, who is any one player to dictate how another should approach roleplaying. It's obvious that at least as many different players have different ideas about roleplaying as much as there are players who have entirely different approaches to even playing the game.

The end result is the same - we're all on the same server with a bunch of others who have their own idea of how to play and what is fun and forcing them to obey an idea that you, me or anyone else has isn't going to happen.

To elaborate even further, you have to realise that not all players see ingame events as roleplaying opportunities. They don't care one bit about staying in character - what they want are huge battle where they get to shoot a lot of people. Perhaps MMORPGs are not the best kind of game to play for that type of player, but I don't know of very many alternatives for them that are this epic in scale.

We rpers hate it when nonrpers impose on us. If I was just into shooting up a bunch of other players and didn't care about rp, I sure wouldn't want someone else telling me that I have to be in character while I blasted 500 rounds into my opponent.))

[Moradus]

OOC: A lot of interesting replies, and not a single flame yet, nice

I agree with a lot of what's said, but there are also things I disagree with, but we all got different views, if not, it would not be interesting.

First, let me say that I won't force anyone to play the loyal OT Citizen, as I do with all my various disguises.

Nevver, I agree with you that not all citizens are loyal to Omni-Tek, but playing such a character, those who do should in my mind be ready to face the consequences when they some day catch up with you, I'm sure you will.

Liss, your view I don't agree that well with. As you state, you were at Rompa, with your clan friends, and when Omni-Pol showed up, as far as I read your reply, you fought against them to help your clanner friends. How would you have reacted if you had lost your citizenship for those actions?? As for that, I do not see any clanner as a friend that I would defend against my own lawenforcers. Espcially not at Rompa, Baboons or anywhere in Omni-1, they are breaking the law just by being there.

Mechanita, I agree, it would be simpler and easier to understand an OT citizen loosing their citizenship than a clanner. I once heard a comment, don't know by who, but it was an GM OR ARK char, "Your citizenship is not a right citizen, it's a privelige!" For the clans, I would see it as much harder to kick someone out, as they even got "official" factions disagreeing with the CoT.

Now what should happen when/if someone loose their OT citizenship. (I will argue this from this standpoint, as that is what I play). I think they should be made neutral, I heard that is what happend to that Diamondcut fellow. If they then want to join the clans, then fine, but they should not be able to join OT for at least 1 week ingame time.

This is a Roleplaying Game, and as that, we as the players should be ready to face the consequence of what our characters do. But I'm sure that if FC follow up on my views, there would be tons of flames the first time it happend to someone.

There is a war going on, even if it's tuned down, how many of you can, without rereading the Tir Accord tell me what should happen to a clanner caught in Omni areas, and what should happen to an omni caught within clan territory??

[Jynne]

OOCly there are two problems with "kicking someone out" of their faction.

First, no matter what faction you change the offender to, as far as the current game mechanics work after 24 horus anyone can fill out a form and switch back. For most relatively active players they should be able to change sides again in under 2 weeks. If you have broadband you can take advantage of that to leave your char logged in but afk at your apartment while you live the rest of your life, then change sides again in a single day.

There's the additional problem of changing someone to neutral - well, besides the problem of it can't be done without a GM. Neutral alignment just means you can go -anywhere- without being killed by guards. OT guards won't attack you, neither will Clan ones. I don't think that's exactly what one would want to have happen as a result of expelling a criminal from your faction.

The "code" solution would be a "criminal" flag. Or, actually, three criminal flags. Criminal-OT, Criminal-Clan, Criminal-Neutral. If you had the flag for a given alignment, you would be KOS to guards of that alignment no matter what faction you were on at the time. It could have the additional effect of making it impossible to change to that faction again if you were to change to the opposing faction - your application form would be rejected because you're a criminal.

[_______________Gabro]

I see your point Nevver and I totally agree, just wish some of the non-RPers don't ruin it for other by doing something there is no need doing. Sort of like a "If you don't want to leave others to do it" type of approach. But then again your right I can't dictate what others want to do, if they want to shoot something there is no way to stop it, except gas, but gas doesn't effect special chars.



BTW the Criminal mark is an awsome idea Jynne.

[________________Liss]

Moradus,

I understand your position due to the fact you play a conservative omni citizen very loyal to the company and I respect that. It is your right to play your character as you see fit.

I have met many clan who feel as you and are hostile to me even though I have possibly done things to aid thier cause. I respect that because it is thier right to play thier character as a hardline clan.

I live in a very grey area in Rubi-ka which there are various degrees of loyalty to both factions and ask you respect my right to play my character as a sympathizer.

No war is so cut and dried as to be black and white. As for losing my citizenship..yes I would except it if that were to happen under circumstances I knew what the consequences were and what the worst case might be. Clan citizens shot in cold blood unarmed at a party was what Liss saw. Not hostile gun waiving loonetics. Any person who respects life would be squimish to see such horror and rethink thier loyalty to Omni.

But again I find it refreshing to discuss this subject and not be impaled by others view of what constitute's role play according to thier perception. I look around and am involved in numerous role play storylines...all different all unique and all at varying degrees of role play. Tolerance is the key to any community in order to survive. I fine that the soul of role play in AO is alive and well in my view...but what am I ...just a suburbian girl born of Omni-Tek research parents raised in an affluent neighborhood. Given great opportunities as an Omni citizen. Only problem I saw was Liss got to know some clan members who sunburn as she does, who feel pain and hurt as she does and who bleed the same red blood as she does. Who knows what path she will take. Only her experiences in Rubi-ka will tell that tale.

[Sivy]

I belive in Role playing but I only do it when I want to Role play not when some lvl 10 idiot comes into Rompa's and starts shouting "go home Clanner" or go back to the north" or my personal favorite "get out of my bar!". If the owner of Rompa came up to me and asked me to leave cause of my side I'd do it (and I don't count Vixen ent as the owners).

I think before someone goes shooting off his mouth and harassing me for being clanner he should first ask if I'm IC because most of the time when I'm in Rompa's I am OOC.

As for gaurd killers they should try teaming instead cause I'm sure you get more xp in team missions than killing a neutral gaurd.

Also I see more Omni-Tek people killing neutral gaurds than clanners do which doesn't help thier image as an evil company now does it?.

[_________shadowrunrr]

Moradus, There IS no black and white in this world of Rubi-Ka, if you are Clan, Omni or Neutral, it doesnt mean that you HAVE to stick to that line and dont cross it. I WAS clan, I was DJing a party in Rompas one time, and we had an incident that almost blew up like the bloodbath. Anti clan slogans were being yelled about, OP showed up making threats, and all because a few clanners were in an omni bar rockin the house down. Mighta been about 4-5 of us, with a roomful of Omni, all having a great time. I was shocked, amazed, and deeply touched as a large number of Omni people started sending me tells, and in vicinity about how I shouldnt worry, they were putting on armor and weps, and would stand up for me. I had a number of people stand between me and the possible harm. Alun, Liss, Chadul, there were too many and it was awhile ago, hard to remember everyone, but it touched me so much, I had to go on air the next nite and thank everyone it was so freakin amazing......I actually broke down while I was talking about it, and it was no act.....

It just comes down to what you see and how you react. If OP want to shoot clanners for having fun, then Omni citizens have a right to react accordingly and ask wtf......everyone should ALWAYS Question Authority.....not disobey, or disrespect, but question, dont follow orders you KNOW are wrong for humane or whatever reason...oh, and for those that didn't know, I am now an Omni Citizen, and I will still get angry and upset when OP or any Omni's harrass innocent people, animals, mother Rubi-Ka, etc. Once a tree huggin Hippie, always a tree huggin hippie....

DJ Mikal 'Shadowrunnr' Catt

[Tax]

How did I know that somewhere in this post someone is going to point their finger at Omni Pol....So let me clear something as of now.

===START RANT===

1. Before anyone in Omni Pol attempts any type of arrest or "anti clan/omni" action we will give the person a tell, and ask them if they are up for a bit of RPing. If they dont we leave them alone and go about our business. If they do want to RP then we will do our job (hell I even let someone kill me in a attempted arrest last week)

2. The coin has two sides...I don't know how many times I go into Rompa myself and some clanner/OT /s I hate you POLs and /s Omni Pol sucks, and half the time I don't even know the person.
or have some clanner come up to me and say "im in your bar what are you going to do about it cop". Knowing dam well we cant do anything. Please if your going to RP with me act like a pro and not some kid off the street!

3. Every guild gets a few bad apples...but when we get ours we get flamed all to hell about it. yes we have had some people go "out of there bounds of proper RPing, but everyone knows who our boss is and he is only a tell away.

===END RANT====

Moradus right on... I agree with most everything you said but I do like the Devils Advocate and the other OT guilds out there who walk that line "and sometimes run and jump across it for a bit" it add flavor to the games and the factions..Hell my RPing would be quite dull if everyone was ultra fanatical employees/clanners (especially during our lack of story line)

And the little fu*** should be held accountable for thier actions
either with a crimminal tag or some type of faction level where in how many guards he/she kills will rasie his/her aggro to gaurds and eventuly they get a KoS tag, and with time/work it off they can lose their tag


Lt. Templus Omni Pol
www.Omni-Pol.org

/me waits for the anti OP flaming to start

[Mire]

Templus thing that was used on me by one of your members, which I was quite impressed with and also made to feel like a fool at the same time.

At one time when I was in Rompas I approched a Omni Pol member to start to complain about the clansmen in the bar, When I started, he politely told me he was off duty and that I should get an on duty officer, I started to get a bit irrate (wich sometimes I can be) and almost came close to becomming an annoyance when before I could even start he sent me a tell simply saying

"off-duty means don't want to RP right now, but thank you for the effort"

In wich effect, I apologized for interupting his time off and went off looking for an on duty officer

[Tikon]

That was me carrying out the search the other night, sorry if i intruded on anything but I love to Rplay but I can never find anyone who does. I thought it would be fun to do a couple of busts looking for the drug "White Trash".I tried to start a rping guild, but all my members were off my timezone so i never got to see them.

So in the end my organisation was decomishoned due to the lack of financialsupport from Omni HQ.


If any of you have a rping guil on rubi-ka 1, i would love to join. because i love to rplay.


I am a lvl 50 MP the other day i was praying at the statue in ICC. which i do quite regularly, when this gray came up to me and said what you doing, i sai "im praying" he then said your dumb!

I try to stay in character as much as possible but it is hard when nearly 90% of the people around dont rplay?

So if any of you guys can help me. give me a call on my secure communication channel.

Access Code:......Tikon.

[Moradus]

A lot of answers once more, and again interesting and informative

Liss: As I said before, I would never try to force anyone to play a their char 100% or even 90% of their alignment. But there is one thing I do react to, and that is :

Clan citizens shot in cold blood unarmed at a party was what Liss saw

This is just what I've talked about above, as I see it, those GM/ARK run Guards had only two options as the game works.

"A bad stage exit", leaving the clanners and dissidents that was present, and what would that have resulted in??

"Shot them down and send them back to reclaim". As was the result and the reason for the bloodbath cries.

Who could have saved this situation, only us, the players. The only way a peacefull result could have happend is as far as I can see it that the clan characters had agreed to leave and let themselves be escorted to a grid point. If anyone see any other way that situation could have been resolved, I would love to hear it.

Sivy: How can you say that you walk into one of the biggest RP areas in the game, and suddenly be OOC. That is a bad excuse, and if you are OOC, why do you go there with a clan char, if it's to meet friends OOC, why don't you make a level 2 Omni and tell your friends who you really are??

As for the owner of Rompa, I would think that goes without saying as the owner is Omni-Tek. At least that is what I heard from the manager, Throll the other day. I've also heard that Throll fellow several times asking clanners to leave.

DJ 'Shadowrunrr' Catt: I never claimed that there was no 100%, what I've been trying to say is that if you roleplay then Role Play. If you're a clanner in Omni Territory, then let yourself be arrested, after all you are breaking the agreements signed by your leaders.

Templus: I agree 100% with all, as you will see from my anwers in this post and in other posts above, I do not demand or want everyone to be pure Omni, Clan or Neutral. That would lead to just stereo types.

Moradus
Loyal OT Citizen