Money

[charleyd]

well, the idea is something that everyone will have to do. Not something that you do once and get bored.

just an idea anyways.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by CharleyD
well, the idea is something that everyone will have to do. Not something that you do once and get bored.

just an idea anyways.

Right idea, wrong implementation

Better way to do it is like this:
News Bulletin:Omni-Trans Institutes Mandatory Toll on Whompa and Grid Terminal Use.

Faced with a possible shortfall in company profits, Omni-Trans (a division of Omni-Tek) has instituted a toll for the use of all Omni-Sponsored transportation devices. The fee will be based on the travelling citizen's status in the population ranks (ooc: 100cr x lvl for Whompa usage. 200cr x lvl for Grid terminal usage, starting at level 50). Nanoformulas that directly access the grid space and the rumored underground grid will be immune from the toll, as grid space is actually a natural occurance of nature. Omni-Trans just supplies a mechanism to facilitate transportation into grid space.

Now, speaking as a Trader that has a grid nano, I shall run for my life. I'm already hated enough because I can Divest/Plunder

[______________Mendas]

Something else to consider. Player/Org run shops. Similar to the housing idea, but a little different.

Buy space.
The amount of space you buy affects how much you can have to sell, and the relative QLs. (ex. 250 cub ft allows 25 items and a QL cap of 25)

Buy wares.
You need to get the stuff from the wholesaler, right? You have to order shipments. Say five items per shipment. Cost is the current market value - 10%. QL has to be within your limit (see above). Possibly have a wholesale vendor located in key towns.

Sales Tax.
Dependent on the player's level or the Org's Avg level and the shop size. (ex. 1000 creds per lvl, per cub ft.) This makes it virtually impossible for a low level/new player to make use of this option (which makes sense, I think), while still costing a considerable amount for the higher levelers (I think . . . . . 0.o). So, for an Clan who's avg level is say 50, for the above shop, the tax would be 50*1000*250 = 12.5 mil. Per week/month/whatever. Sufficient money sink there, I think.

So in summary, lets take a look at how this would work. Let's say I (level 11) want to buy a small shop. (Not likely, still fairly low level). Let's say I just want 100 cub ft. 10 items, 10 QL cap. Alright, that costs me $100,000 (or some other ungodly amount based on size). Now, I need to select wares. I find a wholesaler who has QL 1-10 wares. I decide I'd like to sell weapons. I select
some cheapo QL 1 rifles that normally run, say, $13,000. I fill one of my 10 selections with five rifles, for $58,500 ($65,000, at a 10% wholesale discount). I continue selecting weapons until I fill up my other 9 selections. Now then, the end of the week/month/whatever rolls around, and it's time to pay the piper. I owe Omni/The Clans $1.1 million. Not cheap for my level =( I dont see Mendas' Emporium staying open very long, lol

A few variations could be introduced, such as hiring employees. Employees get a discount that you set (no more than 40%). You can also give certain Orgs (automatically your own) discounts (no more than 15%).

Also, the Wholesale vendor could work a little like the mission generator. He doesn't always have the same wares.

One other thing I've noted. Prices are sky high, yes, but I've noticed that something listed in a shop at, say, $13,000, only re-sells to the shop for a few hundred credits. I understand the concept of the shops only paying a portion of what they sell items for, but that's a bit of a difference. Personally, I think that should be fixed, but that's just me. Anyhoo, that's my two 1/2 cents!

-Demarcus Fladger (aka Mendas)

[______________Luxxan]

Another thing to consider. Like any economy, the economy in AO will always fluctuate. The purpose of creating money sinks it to control that fluctuation and avoid inflation. In order to have a money sink accomplish this, it needs to allow for easy in-game change. For example, rental prices or taxes that change based on the economic conditions. A rent that is too low doesn't help because then renting becomes passe just like a tax that is too high cripples an already crippled economy.

Honestly, I think instituting some good money sink ideas would be a great way to bring story to the players. Get people motivated about price inflation and taxes and things like that, because they directly affect everyone. It would also help submerse people in the game world and give them a reason to participate in the story. I know I'd go to Omni protests if they decided to start taxing my Grid use, for instance

[thresholdrpg]

Originally posted by Hoops

Lowering the maximum amount of money combats this problem to some extent. Yes, it can be gotten around by the use of mules, but that would cause a bit of risk in dealing items above the money cap.

~Hoopspro

Um.... Sorry, but lowering the max amount of money people can carry will have ABSOLUTELY ZERO effect.

People with that much money will quickly and EASILY spread it out over alts, guild bank, etc.

I have no idea why you insist on clinging to this really useless idea.

The ability to buy rare items from expensive shops is a vastly superior idea. People want the items, and if they cannot get it on the shopping channel, they can dump their money into a shop terminal.

This:

1) Drains money out of the economy (good thing!)

2) Keeps sellers honest, since (barring idiotic or lazy buyers)you really cannot sell items for more than a shop sells them (a very good thing).

[Asmodea]

Make ip buyable 1mio gives you 10ip, better than nothing So someone can buy istantly 1m ip.


...
..
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This is a Joke !

[______________Luxxan]

So now Funcom's solution to the money problem is to fix the bug and ban anyone and everyone they can who possibly exploited unless they buy their way out! I like it

The fact that Funcom is giving people who have ilicit funds a way out by returning the funds to Funcom is a really good way to pull all the money out of the economy. Either you have your account banned or you turn over all your dough. Either way, it's gone from the market.

Does this mean money sinks are now not needed? I tend to think they are, since money will always be an issue in the game and the economy is always in flux. Good money sinks give FC a direct way of controlling the economy no matter what the players may come up with.

[Bystander]

Well no - I suspect money sinks were never needed.

What was needed was for someone to spot the cause of the stealth "money printing" inflation and do something about it.

I wonder how long it'll be before the old order comes down to earth with a big bang to find making cash the hard way on RK is actually hard and start whining about it.

Perhaps people will stop expecting 500K tips for minor buffs and implant building as well.

[Jeevez]

Originally posted by Mendas
Something else to consider. Player/Org run shops. Similar to the housing idea, but a little different.

Buy space.
The amount of space you buy affects how much you can have to sell, and the relative QLs. (ex. 250 cub ft allows 25 items and a QL cap of 25)

Buy wares.
You need to get the stuff from the wholesaler, right? You have to order shipments. Say five items per shipment. Cost is the current market value - 10%. QL has to be within your limit (see above). Possibly have a wholesale vendor located in key towns.

Sales Tax.
Dependent on the player's level or the Org's Avg level and the shop size. (ex. 1000 creds per lvl, per cub ft.) This makes it virtually impossible for a low level/new player to make use of this option (which makes sense, I think), while still costing a considerable amount for the higher levelers (I think . . . . . 0.o). So, for an Clan who's avg level is say 50, for the above shop, the tax would be 50*1000*250 = 12.5 mil. Per week/month/whatever. Sufficient money sink there, I think.

So in summary, lets take a look at how this would work. Let's say I (level 11) want to buy a small shop. (Not likely, still fairly low level). Let's say I just want 100 cub ft. 10 items, 10 QL cap. Alright, that costs me $100,000 (or some other ungodly amount based on size). Now, I need to select wares. I find a wholesaler who has QL 1-10 wares. I decide I'd like to sell weapons. I select
some cheapo QL 1 rifles that normally run, say, $13,000. I fill one of my 10 selections with five rifles, for $58,500 ($65,000, at a 10% wholesale discount). I continue selecting weapons until I fill up my other 9 selections. Now then, the end of the week/month/whatever rolls around, and it's time to pay the piper. I owe Omni/The Clans $1.1 million. Not cheap for my level =( I dont see Mendas' Emporium staying open very long, lol

A few variations could be introduced, such as hiring employees. Employees get a discount that you set (no more than 40%). You can also give certain Orgs (automatically your own) discounts (no more than 15%).

Also, the Wholesale vendor could work a little like the mission generator. He doesn't always have the same wares.

One other thing I've noted. Prices are sky high, yes, but I've noticed that something listed in a shop at, say, $13,000, only re-sells to the shop for a few hundred credits. I understand the concept of the shops only paying a portion of what they sell items for, but that's a bit of a difference. Personally, I think that should be fixed, but that's just me. Anyhoo, that's my two 1/2 cents!

-Demarcus Fladger (aka Mendas)

I love this idea as a way to add content to the game. But I can not see how this could serve as a money sink.

Think about it for a sec. The only incentive for investing in shops would be if there was a chance of making a profit of it in the long run. So, if I invest X creds into a shop i would expect to get my investment back within a reasonable amount of time - and then some.

Basically - in all economies you will have inflation if the powers in charge dont maintain a balance in the amount of credits in circulation.

With that said - my poor NT has yet to experience any problems in that direction. Having too much credits has never been an issue for me - ingame or RL.
Guess I just suck, period... :-)

Epoz
lvl 55 NT - RK2

[Resetgun]

Originally posted by Sodom
Make ip buyable 1mio gives you 10ip, better than nothing So someone can buy istantly 1m ip.


...
..
.
This is a Joke !

If your refer to my message in first page:
I didn't know, how bad and widely used credit exploit was. It is clear now that XPs shouldn't be buyable, until all that exploited money is removed from games economy (might take at least couple months).

However at higher levels you need much XP to get level. For example in my current level, 126, I need 4.871.700 XP. If each XP point would cost something like 1.26 credits (or maybe much more), it would cost 6.138.342 credits to get necessary XP to level. Currently I have 7.488.076 credits, and I really haven't wasted much money to buy things from other players. As you can see, I can't afford to buy necessary XP to level (I need to keep some money for running costs).

But if I would like to create new alt, I could use 2-3M to raise my new alt to higher levels. Or if I would be engineer/trader - who is using all time to buffing or crafting items - I could buy necessary XP to get level after some hard work. This would make noncombat playstyle viable solution (currently noncombat playstyle isn't viable, because XP reward is so poor from item crafting).

[Disagree]

Items people start trading items

i have personally done buisness with hoops i didn't offer him money i offerd him something he might need in the future a ql 197 soul frag

this is much more effective you will ultimately use the money to buy a item so why not skip the middle man and just trade items

[aiwass777]

Originally posted by Cindrax


Um.... Sorry, but lowering the max amount of money people can carry will have ABSOLUTELY ZERO effect.

People with that much money will quickly and EASILY spread it out over alts, guild bank, etc.

Fair enough... If you look at my post, you'll noticed that I mentioned this very thing. Let me ask you one question.

What is stopping people from doing this now?

Anyone with who is approaching the money cap would do well to mule off some of the cash. I don't trust Funcom's programming and niether should you. So realisticly speaking, it's possible for people to possess wealth that exceeds the money cap. If that person is a guild leader he also has access to his guild bank (nevermind that it's currently locked).

I have two account, my current maximum possible wealth is 15999999984 credits. If all of my characters are guild leaders then the maximum rises a lot (none are leaders). If that number was reduced to 20% it would make it more difficult for anyone to greatly affect the economy as a whole.

This sort of change would HAVE to be a complete surprise to work or everyone would mule off thier extra cash. Regardless, it's not something that will ever get done.

Regarding vendor sale of uber gear, it's a bad idea. It only creats more of a rift between the haves and the have-nots.

~Hoopspro
"What should I name my SWG character?"

[_____________Shiggee]

What about stuff that is partly fun and partly useful like tuning parts for Yalms?
That could start with different colors you can change whenever you feel like spending money into it, Nano-Turbos that boost the speed of the Yalm lets say by 1 per QL and need some kind of Nano-Fuel to work that is sold in shops, an extra seat so that you can take other people with you (maybe people would start a career as a taxi driver ) or something like that.
Most likely that wouldnt solve the problem, but it might be a first step in the right direction which is also fun especially if would be visible tuning like longer wings or stuff like that.

Shiggee

[crazyhorse]

Gambling.... FC should put some craps tables, slot machines, roulette wheels, poker tables, leet races and more... People can gamble their credits away and everyone knows the house never loses...

[___________Serotonin]

Lots and lots of nice ideas here. A lot of people will of course be aware of this but its worth stating again, some of these suggestions actually seem to be coming in the booster pack. In the webchat on Unknownplayer i think i remember someone asking whether land control/ guild towers would incorporate a money sink and FC said yes.

I think the basic idea is Upgrades/Defences/Guards can be purchased for your guilds tower etc. Not 100% sure on this but the transcripts on unknownplayer still if anyone hasnt seen it yet.

One thing i would say is some suggestions seem far more realistic than others. Mendas's sugestion for player run shops seems a great idea, but personally i just cant see FC devoting manpower/resources to something as complex when they seem to be heavily concentrating on the booster and the expansion right now. A great idea, but one i dont think we will see for some time

The much requested implementation of Gambling on the other hand would seem a more viable candidate for becoming a reality even in the next few months or so. Im clueless in regards to these things but would it really be that hard to implement? Im sick of sitting in the Rhompa betting on Helpbot rolls with friends

"I call 2! DAMMIT!"

[Isgrimnur]

Here is the problem:

Vendors shouldnt be able to buy anything. NPC vendors should buy stuff, but keep a tab on what they buy, so no selling 10 battlesuits to the guy. Also NPC can get a ratio of how much they bought in a 24hr period. Also so NPCs aren't camped, the ones who buy should have been roaming NPCs.

Since this didnt happen, well money is easy to get. I can make 3-4mil a night if I actually loot crap from missions. Computer Lit makes me even richer as I have it at 800 or so, I average 1-2mil more a week than when I had it down at 500ish.

To be honest, that idea of a remote store that sells unique stuff is a great idea.

Another idea would be to put all uniques on an 8hr timer so that more unique loot is out there, then you wouldnt see some sleeves selling for 100+ mil. Means you can be more social instead of always thinking "i need more money so i can have the best equipment"

These days Eggs are an incredible money sink. 20mil per soul fragment and 70-80mil per egg. Just nuts. What does this do? Makes money for those who are in that business - IMO makes some of them very rich, and makes those who don't have this item poor.

I am an agent, would like MORE items like the helm. Don't care if they are nodrop. I would like to see UBER weapons and BODY ARMOR that is like this. You do a quest to get it, then you have to upgrade it from lvl 1-current. Imagine the most uber body armor is something you might have to quest for say 1mth finding all the NPCs/items for it, then you pay extreme money to use it, but definately worth having if you want to be "the best"

I hope for something, because these days xping is boring and buying and selling seems more fun than sitting in a mission. Tradeskills seem interesting too!

[Snuble]

From what I see, the prices are on its way down.

[_____________Pays007]

i'll pay 100mil for an item that looks like one of those bronto burger counters when i drop it THAT DOESN'T go away until i pick it up or leave the zone.

That'd be sooooooo cool. You come to the gate in omni-trade and there i am, standing behind my counter as people line up while i make their implants, eggs, armor, etc etc....



/me wakes up and stops dreaming




Yea, add more sinks....

[locomdenom]

Whoever it was that suggested buying IPR pooints has it right.

If you have to pay 10-50mil to get an IPR point (500 might be extreme, I think), then you do two things:

Provide a money sink.
Provide an option for players who want to try more things than the FC provided IPR points will allow.

This option will take care of all the 'killer' types, because everytime the new 'ubergun of the month' comes out, they'll IPR into it and spend another 30-250 million (depending on price and skillreqs) to buy those IPR points. And at level 200, when there ain't anything to do, you can freely experiment to find out things.

'Social' types ain't gonna go for this as much, but they can be catered to with housing, paintable Yalms, and all those other options. If housing has a time-based cost (significant!) then it'll be a continual money sink to maintain your status symbol.

Finally, I suspect the booster pack will go a long way towards money-sinking for guilds... them towers ain't gonna come cheap, I suspect. And if you have to buy a new one when yours is destroyed...