Sentinels... Good? Bad? Or just plain Tactless?

[Xariama]

*just shakes her head and says nothing*

[drgrimmy]

OT has just done something horrific to its own employees and some people protest...others just dont give a damn and continiue their work.
This is where we're at right now with the Sentinels vs Neutrals case.
*Looks around*
Anyone filed a vote yet?
Hmm...Seems to me none of the Clans give a damn enough...Now thats democracy for ya.

I Know there's good clanner's out there...did you ever think that by oppressing them for so long you may end up in the same boat omni-tek did that created the clans in the first place.

Omni-Tek has learned from our past...I'm suprized you haven't picked anything up from our shared history along the way

I'd like to hear from other clans...Do you really not give a damn as the sentinel supporter's would imply?...or are you the free thinking people that made the clans a reality in the first place?

[keyya]

You Omni-tek employees seem to always jump out on the most visible things and not pay attention to any details. It might be irrelevent to you, but we do not like to be told what to do every single day, where you can not expect what your next duty will be. We choose to pick our own duties, things that will further our growth so that we can prosper. Not in a way that some CEO can make even more money than hes already got.
And I'm not even going into the fact that Omni-Tek in its whole is turning every single planet that they posses into a semi-Omega-structure. Farma-Tek...Omni-Tek...all sounds the same to me and I'm not content.
If your focus is on "saving the neutrals from the slaughter they get themselfs in when they enter Tir" then fine, so be it. But my focus is somewhere else. To stop the Coorporation, first on Rubi-Ka and then where ever else they might need me.
Thats my point of view, now I don't mind or care if you don't like that, because occurances in my life has set me to that point of view and it is who I am. They can not be changed.
And I dont even understand why theres more Omni-Tek employees on here than neutrals complaining about Neutrals not being allowed in one Clan city.
First of all, I'm sure the neutrals can speak for themselfs.
Second, Its really none of your bussiness.

I'm not even deffending the Sentinels here. It's simply that I have more important things to do than to argue wether Silverstones likes neutrals or not...really...
Take it up with him...If you're scared...Take it up on the Council meetings...and thats it. I really don't see the need of more bickering about this.

[drgrimmy]

my last post didn't even mention the neutrals.....and was not directed towards the sentinel supporter's.....back on the origanal topic.

and as above..there go the sentinel supporters answering for all the clans...when the question was NOT directed at them.

[keyya]

my last post didn't even mention the neutrals.....and was not directed towards the sentinel supporter's.....back on the origanal topic.

and as above..there go the sentinel supporters answering for all the clans...when the question was NOT directed at them.

*edit for mistake*

This was not* commented at your last post.

[Wizz]

You make me laugh because your so sad.. The war against Omni Tek is useless at best?

The planet, the fauna, the flora are far more important on the whole than knowing if the humans that live on it are omni, clan or neutral. The reverred Sister Elsabeth's teachings, provided you can read, certainly would help you understand this basic truth. If there's no more planet, whio cares who owns it?

Last time i checked Clan controlled more notum mines than Omni Tek and we are in crontol of about ½ the terraformed areas, so the war is apparently and obviously not useless, it's simply saddens me to see anyone portray it as such but i guess your fine with being a slave, i can tell you one thing, i'm not..

So, mister non-slave, you blindly obey Mastah Silverstone's every command? If that's not slave behavior how do you call your obedience? Pet training?
That posed, you removed any doubt about the goals you and your kind pursue: mine notum and get rich. Do you even give a damn any more about the damage mining notum creates in the environment? Do you even care any more about freedom of thought? Freedom to disagree with your lust for profit? What now, if anything distinguishes you from any mindless Omni employee? The hollow goat skull you hide your shame behind?
Your fight for freedom has ended long ago.

Fortunately some of us remained true to Clan ideals. We are the slaves of nobody. We're not the slaves of Omni-Tek. Contrarily to you, we're not the puppets of Silverstone either.

Gaia, the Pilgrims, the Eco Warriors, maybe the Knights remained faithful to the true ideals any clanner should have. We have the right to question your motivations. Chronos knows we will. We fought for the right to.

I know not how Silverstone mesmerized so many people and washed away their moral fiber. I know though that his fight isn't mine. That his valors aren't mine. I have higher ideals, so do others and we'll proudly stand for them. Peacefully, but with a resolve nothing will bend ever.

When Neutrals engaged themselves in the slaughter of innocent Clanners and our mining facilities.. Saying that these cowards have nothing to do with the conflict is repulsive.
No need to justify anything as these acts are apparently the only way to keep these cowards out of our streets and cities..

You're atrox so it's excusable that you're confusing a lot of things and can't tell your foot from your mouth.
Notum mining towers are installed in Tir City since when exactly? What says that whoever under the cover of neutrality attacked those abominations that mining tower are were the ones wanting to travel through Tir anyway?
Besides you're calling people that courageously dare tear down mining facilities from a faction ten times as numerous as themselves cowards?
You should thank them for reminding you that notum mining towers desecrate our beloved Rubi-Ka and its glorious nature.

May Chronos who bends time help you find enlightenment in your confusion. Some day, brother, you too will be free from your chains. Some day, you too will see the truth.

Let's all abandon our towers! Clans, neutrals, Omnis. Let's embrace in fraternity and fight the aliens as brothers!

[keyya]

I unlike some, do understand what you mean Malusz, I really do.
However, it's been so often that I and others like me have agreed on something with people working for Omni-Tek and found them waiting for a chance to hit right back that we don't trust it no more.
This however is not my fight. As you might know, I trust almost anyone that comes on my path even though I maybe shouldnt. It's a cruel world where you should trust those by their actions and not their words.

And I'm sure that you know that everyone that follows Silverstones path does always agree with him. However, there are different battles we struggle against Omni-Tek.
Just as I do. And I tell you, as you've probably heared before of me, anyone that wishes to hold me back from my path will have to face me in any wich way they choose. Be it by words or by force. It's their decision.

With you I could have discussions and arguements on matters like this and we both gain knowledge from them.
I mostly don't care about killing Omni-Tek employees. I just finish the Job I start and if an Omni-Tek employee feels its his or her duty to stop me than so be it. Its their decision.

I am a member of Assembly, and we have chosen Silverstone, and you see how I feel about my enemy. It's not directly the same as the commander, but still I see how he could help me, my clan and the Clans and maybe even the rest of the inhabitants of Rubi-Ka to finaly achive the peace that they need.
Omni-Prime will not stop, and I feel they are even more so dangerous than these aliens.

[Fixerben]

And Ben...

tomato, tomatoe (?)...you're either for or against war. Beyond that, our (please note the "our") personal feelings are trivial.

No, Thats not all there is. The Clans are a diverse people, and many people have different views on many different subjects. I feel sorry for you if you think as narrow mindedly as you just implied, because you truly know nothing of what its like to be Clan. We all have different views, and have different ways we'd like to deal with Omni-Tek.

[Astera]

Oh Ben...

I completely understand all the complexities of each decision that everyone makes. No, I am not narrowminded. It's called the bottom line (when it comes to this issue).

You're either for it or against it. Pick one and that opens an entire new realm of "things you could be doing to further that goal".

[Fixerben]

Oh Ben...

I completely understand all the complexities of each decision that everyone makes. No, I am not narrowminded. It's called the bottom line (when it comes to this issue).

You're either for it or against it. Pick one and that opens an entire new realm of "things you could be doing to further that goal".

Dont get me wrong Astera, I beleive there will be a war, and I'll be there side by side with other Clanners, just as I am at the Tower battles. Speaking of which I've never seen you at one. Still thats not the point...things arent as Black and White as you may want them to be. If your into politics at all you should know that there are always gray areas.

[Trgeorge]

I am a member of Assembly, and we have chosen Silverstone, and you see how I feel about my enemy. It's not directly the same as the commander, but still I see how he could help me, my clan and the Clans and maybe even the rest of the inhabitants of Rubi-Ka to finaly achive the peace that they need.

That's sadest thing I ever hear any claner say. Peace for any cost? Even freedom?

[keyya]

That's sadest thing I ever hear any claner say. Peace for any cost? Even freedom?

Please explain to me how you came to the conclusion that I thought that.
Does Silverstone not let you live in freedom?
Are you born a clanner? What are your motives for being a Clanner?
I'd love to know, and not just yours Trgeorge. If I could I'd sit down with as many clanners as I could to talk about their motives of becoming Clan I would.
I myself remember that the reason I joined the Clans was because of Omni-Tek. I came to my own conclusion that I will have to fight the coorporation. And Silverstone can help me do that as he feels the same way on that matter.
So can the Unionists and some of the other legacy Clans.
And even when i did not even vote on the Sentinels, my clan did, and I will stand by their decision through thick and thin. I also do understand their motives on doing so and agree with them fully.
With all the stuff I write down here I simply state my mind. Maybe its not as bright as some out there, and maybe its even "sad" as you like to call it, but I simply call 'em how I see 'em.
You shouldn't make assumptions that I do not care for freedom because its a very very big word...

[Trgeorge]

Simon is no democrat. It's his way or high way. I guess we can agree on that. Based on his past and current actions, what do you think will happen when we get rid of Omni-Tek? I'm sure he'll try to widen his influence until finnaly siezing total control. It took him 40 years (or whatever, not sure how old is he) to learn to say "thank you". He's just set in his ways.

Now, one tyrant to control our lives is more or less same as another. I don't fight for that. If that's what we're after, we can stop fighting today and all buy OT application forms and save some lives. Bingo, there's peace. On the other hand, if we fight for freedom, with life in despotism, we lost. Simon is almost same threat to us, on a long run, as Omni Tek. Saying that he won't do something like that, is spiting in the face of evidence. He took over Tir already, didn't he?

As for my background, it's just that. Mine. Of course questioning it might seed distrust, but to what end? End of barrel? Or implanting ID chips, like Omnis did?

Edit : got rid of some nasty typo.

[Astera]

Well, you can have the grey areas Ben. I won't waste my time with them. You either learn to let your toes get stepped on every once in a while for the greater good or you don't and bog everything down because its not 100% the way you want it. Sooner or later it's going to come back to you.

[Xaun]

Simon is no democrat. It's his way or high way. I guess we can agree on that. Based on his past and current actions, what do you think will happen when we get rid of Omni-Tek? I'm sure he'll try to widen his influence until finnaly siezing total control. It took him 40 years (or whatever, not sure how old is he) to learn to say "thank you". He's just set in his ways.

Now, one tyrant to control our lives is more or less same as another. I don't fight for that. If that's what we're after, we can stop fighting today and all buy OT application forms and save some lives. Bingo, there's piece. On the other hand, if we fight for freedom, with life in despotism, we lost. Simon is almost same threat to us, on a long run, as Omni Tek. Saying that he won't do something like that, is spiting in the face of evidence. He took over Tir already, didn't he?

As for my background, it's just that. Mine. Of course questioning it might seed distrust, but to what end? End of barrel? Or implanting ID chips, like Omnis did?

[that was very well said]

[keyya]

Simon is no democrat. It's his way or high way. I guess we can agree on that. Based on his past and current actions, what do you think will happen when we get rid of Omni-Tek? I'm sure he'll try to widen his influence until finnaly siezing total control. It took him 40 years (or whatever, not sure how old is he) to learn to say "thank you". He's just set in his ways.

Now, one tyrant to control our lives is more or less same as another. I don't fight for that. If that's what we're after, we can stop fighting today and all buy OT application forms and save some lives. Bingo, there's peace. On the other hand, if we fight for freedom, with life in despotism, we lost. Simon is almost same threat to us, on a long run, as Omni Tek. Saying that he won't do something like that, is spiting in the face of evidence. He took over Tir already, didn't he?

As for my background, it's just that. Mine. Of course questioning it might seed distrust, but to what end? End of barrel? Or implanting ID chips, like Omnis did?

Edit : got rid of some nasty typo.

Well...Since I still don't know why you are a Clanner and seemingly you wouldn't want to inform me, I'll just drop it. Understandable.

I would however like to remind you the state that Tir was in. It was hardly protected, defended by a handful of ICC guards, who by the way would have been slain if a group of 20 leets would've invaded the city.
They were there because the Council of Truth was gone and there was noone left to help the Clans even defend their towns.
Silverstone came and deffended it.
I'm not saying he "liberated" Tir or anything. But he did put up a much better defence in critical times. Since then he has been there and he has deffended the political capitol of the Clans as best as he could. I think we can also agree on that.

Also you should take a look at Silverstones past. He wants an all out war with Omni-Tek because of his hate for them. The first time they voted on him being the spokesperson of the Clans he rejected. He even stated that he'd rather be fighting his enemy and that he thought it was better if Sir Tristam took his place. That doesn't sound like a person that is fighting to gain more control. It sounds like a person fighting to rid his enemy. Maybe we should ask him why he became a Clanner instead to get things cleared up.
I have a feeling that Silverstone won't even be content if there isn't a single OT on the planet anymore. Ofcourse this is what I feel.

I would like to know that what urges you to feel that the commander is controlling you.

[Trgeorge]

I believe there are different reasons why he rejected position in the first vote. I might be closer to truth too, with that Sentinel lady acting as speaker for a while, but since that's speculation, there's no need to share it.

ICC guards were there even when first Council was still active. It was sabotaged by Council of Ares. mayority of Clans forming CoA are Sentinel supportes, I suspect. But that is beside point too.

But saying ICC guards weren't fit for job is ridiculus. Back in the days, attacks on Tir were few. There were one man or one team invasions, but guards with little help of citizens were agle to get rid of them. Nowdays we get massive invasion, with Sentinels screaming for help from top of their lungs. I can't claim it wouldn't be same with ICC guards, but they had adequate personel and equipment for risks they were facing.

It's not really fair comparisment, I know, but it's only one available. Controling Tir has it's benefits, but it's responsability too. No matter how mrs. Godfray idolize it, Tit could be much more as it is. I won't claim it could be safer too, but there were less attacks on it with ICC guards.

[keyya]

That may very well be true and ofcourse the war has gotten much more tense and the attackers have gotten much more stronger, better equiped and trained aswell. Also the fact that attacking the ICC isn't very good for your PR. However, the city is better guarded than it used to be.

I do agree with you on some of these points.

That leaves...

I would like to know that what urges you to feel that the commander is controlling you.

[Trgeorge]

I would like to know that what urges you to feel that the commander is controlling you.

That's twisting my words. I did used "control" in connection to Commander twice. But I never claimed him controling me. There's difference betwen controling someone and controling their life. If Tir is empty and Old Athens bustling with life, don't you think that affects everyone?

But this discusion is futile. You're following person's cult and nothing I can say or do, will open your eyes. Clanners are weaker now as anytime in our history. Realising this takes curage. Admiting it even more. But the real test is to bridge that instead of pointing fingers. Silverstone isn't cause of that, he is product of this fact.

[keyya]

That's twisting my words. I did used "control" in connection to Commander twice. But I never claimed him controling me. There's difference betwen controling someone and controling their life. If Tir is empty and Old Athens bustling with life, don't you think that affects everyone?

But this discusion is futile. You're following person's cult and nothing I can say or do, will open your eyes. Clanners are weaker now as anytime in our history. Realising this takes curage. Admiting it even more. But the real test is to bridge that instead of pointing fingers. Silverstone isn't cause of that, he is product of this fact.

My meaning wasn't to twist your words. I wanted to know how you felt that the commander controls the Clanners.
The reason that Tir is empty and Old Athens is packed is a whole other discussion aswell, and theres a lot more factors that are the cause of this.

I assure you that the conversation won't be futile. It's on-topic aswell.
I have before stated that I did not vote on Sentinels, but the majority of Assembly did and that I mearly have chosen to follow my Clan as I would do if they chose any other Legacy Clan. Democracy right?
So thinking that my eyes are shut is faulty to say the least.