Sentinels... Good? Bad? Or just plain Tactless?

[Kotts]

It does not seem that Athen is any worse off for allowing Neutrals in, nor was Tir suffering unduly at Neutral hands before the Sentinels took over. Is this the best you can do?


Savoy

Point made lady, but Athen is held by vanguards as you know. Jacobi is a business man and wants his stores hopping and poppin' creds. Clan and Nueters both.

Tir is almost like a political capitol for the Clans. I see the Sentinals as guard dogs for our politicians, and Honestly what else would any one want in Tir for? If you want to shop got to Old Athen. As for secure meeting grounds....

Basicly If a Neut needs to pass through Tir he or she can *easly* just so long as they don't go near the Tower or shops.

Simpley put it's a defensive measure. Neutrals can be easly hired out by Omni or Clans to do dirty work, or in more serious terms act on their own accord, what ever that may be.

If a Neut truely wants to stay out of the conflict, fine. But don't expect you can waltz right into a CoT meeting.

[Redtricks]

The best I can do? The best I can do is not gab but keep my people equipped. Which is quite frankly what I'd rather be doing right now. What more do you want me to say, that I run around frolicking with Skippyfoot the Ubarleet or Pwnz the j00suk?

Still, that's an interesting remark. So supposing one would allow neutrals in Tir... umm... hmm. No, I don't quite see the perks here... Care to tell me what do neutrals need from Tir in the first place? Or is this just about letting them in to see the view? No, here, see... they get to use the whompah system as far as transportation's concerned, as some might know. It was mentioned in May's Council of Truth session. The voicelogs are public, naturally.

So as a follow-up. Don't say "Tir could use the commerce". Just forget economics - the Vanguards worry about that, and Neutrals can go through ICC and then Tir to get to Old Athen. That's quite all right with me, but I wonder what the hubbub is about now. Giving neutrals access to two clan bars, clan apartments and shops that still wouldn't sell to them is that important? Thank you, but no. Tir's done well enough without Neutral guests, I've noticed.

To take a cheap shot (ho, ho!), Tir still isn't suffering at Neutral hands. Nor clan hands, which is what you meant. The lack of neutrals in Tir isn't hurting the Vanguards' business, and I'm wondering what your motivation as an Omni is, Savoy. Divide and conquer, eh?

If all this is about is getting me to tell you what I think so you can make shiny notes about the corporation that enforces strict rules akin to "you must not sympathise with anything but Omni profit" on their personnel, I'm just going to finish up here and shut the hell up about Tir. There's precious little to debate.

Neutrals - Tir's not welcoming. It's the clan capital, looking to provide safety for clanners. Feel free to enjoy the whompah and the newer Grid system - but don't explore until you've joined the clans. It ain't good for your health. Now which part of this morsel of information isn't clear?

[Dabblez]

Point made lady, but Athen is held by vanguards as you know. Jacobi is a business man and wants his stores hopping and poppin' creds. Clan and Nueters both.

Tir is almost like a political capitol for the Clans. I see the Sentinals as guard dogs for our politicians, and Honestly what else would any one want in Tir for? If you want to shop got to Old Athen. As for secure meeting grounds....

Basicly If a Neut needs to pass through Tir he or she can *easly* just so long as they don't go near the Tower or shops.

Simpley put it's a defensive measure. Neutrals can be easly hired out by Omni or Clans to do dirty work, or in more serious terms act on their own accord, what ever that may be.

If a Neut truely wants to stay out of the conflict, fine. But don't expect you can waltz right into a CoT meeting.

I am sorry to say, bu this attitude seems to me a little dishonest to me. The fact of the matter is int he days of the original Council of Truth, before the Sentinels siezed Tir no one was worried about the Neutrals in Tir. It was not an issue, no one was portesting about it, it was not a concern.

It is only after the event, after Silverstone, on his one and with no regards for what the rest of the Clans thought decided to close Tir to the Neutrals, that people, Sentinel supporters that is, have come out to defend his decision restropectively.

This to me smacks of making excuses for Silverstone.

Savoy

[Escritores]

As much as I hate to interfere in such a profound and highly intellectual political discussion, would you be kind enough to enlighten me on the matter:

In what way are Neutrals, or have Neutrals been, a pest in Tir in such a way that shooting them is the only solution?

In what way did history show again and again and again that “shoot first, ask questions later” is the only way that works?

As i assume someone joining a political debate should know history i also assume you allready have the answers to your own questions.
It has nothing to do with "Neutrals" being a pest in Tir they're a pest in general to cowardly to take a stance and therefor they bow down to Omni Tek (Neutral... HAH!) and work as spies for them, they repediately attack innocent clanners and our notum mines.. If it was up to me Neutrals should not be allowed in any of the Northern sectors whatsoever and should be shot back to Borealis reclaim on sight.
As you see in Tir this does work very well indeed as you see far less socalled self-proclaimed "Neutrals" in Tir than in Old Athen for instance..

[Kotts]

I am sorry to say, bu this attitude seems to me a little dishonest to me. The fact of the matter is int he days of the original Council of Truth, before the Sentinels siezed Tir no one was worried about the Neutrals in Tir. It was not an issue, no one was portesting about it, it was not a concern.

It is only after the event, after Silverstone, on his one and with no regards for what the rest of the Clans thought decided to close Tir to the Neutrals, that people, Sentinel supporters that is, have come out to defend his decision restropectively.

This to me smacks of making excuses for Silverstone.

Savoy

Ok lemme ask you this.

If you could walk in Tir safely. What would you do there? Live? Shop? What?

[Dabblez]

Ok lemme ask you this.

If you could walk in Tir safely. What would you do there? Live? Shop? What?

Go see female mud wrestling perhaps?

Savoy

[Kotts]

Go see female mud wrestling perhaps?

Savoy

*laughs*

Nice to see an Omni with a sence of humor. *grins*

[Fixerben]

Go see female mud wrestling perhaps?

Savoy

Ah the good old days in Tir, when the CAS held parties in that club...we did nightly bets on those mud wrestling fights.

And to all of you sitting here now arguing about how the Sentinels are evil, and the Knights are hypocrits, well, I've been fighting this battle for a long long time now, and you dont see me bickering about it publically. I'll make my oppinion known, and if someone tries to beat me down for it they will get a beating right back. So let me just give you one peice of advice:

Its not wise to completely alienate anyone, even if you dont necessarily agree with them on all subjects, sooner or later you will find one that you do agree with. Or you may even find yourself needing their help at some point with something.

My guild chose to affiliate themselves with Terra Firma for many reasons. Terra Firma beleives in the Council, and supports the effort with all they have. While the Sentinels werent exactly the most popular in the Past, we understand that Silverstone is a powerful man and at some point may become very uuseful to the Clan effort, such as he has been with his most recent effort. Terra Firma also keep close ties with a majority of the other Legacy Clans, except for a select few, and even then we dont completely alienate or shun these Clans. You could all learn a lesson from Terra Firma.

These things may sound very cliche, but they are true now as they were ages ago. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. The enemy, of my enemy, is my friend.

[steelyglint]

well Xaun, i got to to say you have really gone and put your foot in it in a really, i mean really big way. actually, i suggest u take that foot right out of your mouth and apologise. Your claim that Sentinals do not do anything to combat the evil in the shadowlands is quite patently false.

I do believe u have forgotten about the Tempus corma investigations and yes, they are still on going. Now lets see who took part investigation, Hmm, sentinal aligned and unionist guilds. And believe me i know, i headed up the investigation team. I didnt see you sticking your hand up to volunteer to help. not once did u spend hours searching every little nook and cranny in the shadowlands, or spend your time in the cold wind and rain watching the whompah from Old Athens to Jobe. not once did u raise your voice in the council and ask so much as a question. Who took them out in the end? well it was a JOINT effort amongst the various guilds who's personell dropped what they were doing and came to help, and yes, the knights did show to help in the end, after most of the investigative leg workwork was done., do i have a problem with this, not at all. But again, i didnt see u there for the Battle in the caverns which we could of easily lost as won. How dare u ridicule the other guilds efforts when u didnt lift a finger. You big bad protector of the shadowlands u., Maybe u should of gone and taken them out yourself, the wind comming out of your mouth could of blown them back to old earth.

Leftenant Steelyglint.

General Of The Black Company.

Silverstone: Get off your asses, kids, we're under attack!

[Xaun]

I never accused any one of not lifting a finger in the SL. That is just untrue. I asked the question when was the last time? Fact of the matter is I have several friends who are sentinel supporters. This will not change my view. Really only two people who have upset me on more than one occasion but they are both guild leaders. As such it has the trickle effect down their ranks complicating matters greatly.

I personally feel much better having spoken my mind and let my frustrations out. As such I doubt I will press this issue further and even might attempt to patch things up. But as a lesson those who feel like every topic is a good place to argue about something perhaps in the future if you disagree on something create a topic for public discussion get it out in the open and take the bull by the horns instead of countermining every attempt to organize any kind of diplomatic or informational topic in a channel. The constant defense of someones namesake leads others to take on the offensive against it.

[Just fyi, I don't really dislike tussa or astera, but Xaun dislikes the actions of the sentinels and its leaders... as a knight the killing of innocents of any group is frowned apon greatly and it would be innappropriate for her to not speak out against it.]

[steelyglint]

(When was the last time you went to the Shadowlands and put in an ounce of effort against the Brink...?) your exact words xuan. If thats not an accusation in the form of a question, well, i'll go dance for cred's in rome blue. If u have a Problem with certain people, rather than makeing a post and generalising, how bout u take it up with them personaly, that would be a far more "Honorable" thing to do.

leftenant Steelyglint

General of The Black Company

"We give our word, they shall not pass"

[Vixentrox]

A traveler from another system decides to visit Rubi-ka despite the low grade warfare. She is nothing more than a researcher and collector of oh say, rocks. Her craft lands and she decides to pick up supplies in Tir. BAM BAM BAM. She is shot dead. Why? Becuase she was a "fence sitter", a neutral party in the conflict between Clan and Omni-tek.

This is the Sents brand of freedom and justice. Visitors to our planet, even those that have no bearing at all on the Clan/Omni conflict are automatically treated as hostile. It's sad to see the Clans become Xenophobic. And what happens if the Clans win and force Omni off the planet? Going to shoot everyone that comes to do business with us becuase they are niether Clan or Omni? Going to shoot relatives of Clan member just becuase they work for Tru-Space or other companies not involved in the conflict? Going to kill every being in the universe just becuase they are not Clan?

[Shadowset]

A traveler from another system decides to visit Rubi-ka despite the low grade warfare. She is nothing more than a researcher and collector of oh say, rocks. Her craft lands and she decides to pick up supplies in Tir. BAM BAM BAM. She is shot dead. Why? Becuase she was a "fence sitter", a neutral party in the conflict between Clan and Omni-tek.

This is the Sents brand of freedom and justice. Visitors to our planet, even those that have no bearing at all on the Clan/Omni conflict are automatically treated as hostile. It's sad to see the Clans become Xenophobic. And what happens if the Clans win and force Omni off the planet? Going to shoot everyone that comes to do business with us becuase they are niether Clan or Omni? Going to shoot relatives of Clan member just becuase they work for Tru-Space or other companies not involved in the conflict? Going to kill every being in the universe just becuase they are not Clan?

And here I thought you had no heart... Then again I never thought I would ever would agree with you...

But this time I do.

Strange..

~Ironox

[Fixerben]

A traveler from another system decides to visit Rubi-ka despite the low grade warfare. She is nothing more than a researcher and collector of oh say, rocks. Her craft lands and she decides to pick up supplies in Tir. BAM BAM BAM. She is shot dead. Why? Becuase she was a "fence sitter", a neutral party in the conflict between Clan and Omni-tek.

This is the Sents brand of freedom and justice. Visitors to our planet, even those that have no bearing at all on the Clan/Omni conflict are automatically treated as hostile. It's sad to see the Clans become Xenophobic. And what happens if the Clans win and force Omni off the planet? Going to shoot everyone that comes to do business with us becuase they are niether Clan or Omni? Going to shoot relatives of Clan member just becuase they work for Tru-Space or other companies not involved in the conflict? Going to kill every being in the universe just becuase they are not Clan?

Fixerben nods slowly and silently in agreement with Vix's point.

Yet the argument still continues, bickering ensues, patience and understanding are the only things that will take us through the problems facing the Clans in general. Patience that time changes people, and understanding of other peoples oppinions, though you may not necessarily agree.

[kazragis]

SilverStone Ftw

[Escritores]

A traveler from another system decides to visit Rubi-ka despite the low grade warfare. She is nothing more than a researcher and collector of oh say, rocks. Her craft lands and she decides to pick up supplies in Tir. BAM BAM BAM. She is shot dead. Why? Becuase she was a "fence sitter", a neutral party in the conflict between Clan and Omni-tek.

This is the Sents brand of freedom and justice. Visitors to our planet, even those that have no bearing at all on the Clan/Omni conflict are automatically treated as hostile. It's sad to see the Clans become Xenophobic. And what happens if the Clans win and force Omni off the planet? Going to shoot everyone that comes to do business with us becuase they are niether Clan or Omni? Going to shoot relatives of Clan member just becuase they work for Tru-Space or other companies not involved in the conflict? Going to kill every being in the universe just becuase they are not Clan?

Try to stay present it helps as your current statements make no sense whatsoever as this is now not the future you can't assume anything, the Sentinels will or will not do and since you neither support or like them you for obvious reason try using this chance yet again to throw mud after them as you have done time and time again it's getting very tiresome. And have gotten you nowhere.
Anyway... What kinda of moronic person desides to land on a planet for supplies or to do reserach without checking where they land or seek permission first to land in those areas a person like that deserves to be killed. Would be nothing but a minor civilian casualty that might have saved alot of clanners if it had been a omni tek spy, but i guess you care less about your fellow clanners than someone landing puposely in the middle of a planet in all out war?
As i stated ealier i see no reason whatsoever to reply to your completely ludicris staments in the last part of your post and attempts of mud throwing at the sentinels as it in no way portrais the current state of our lives and this planet.

[Shadowset]

Anyway... What kinda of moronic person desides to land on a planet for supplies or to do reserach without checking where they land or seek permission first to land in those areas a person like that deserves to be killed. Would be nothing but a minor civilian casualty that might have saved alot of clanners if it had been a omni tek spy, but i guess you care less about your fellow clanners than someone landing puposely in the middle of a planet in all out war?
As i stated ealier i see no reason whatsoever to reply to your completely ludicris staments in the last part of your post and attempts of mud throwing at the sentinels as it in no way portrais the current state of our lives and this planet.

*muttering 'some pie eaters should keep their mouthshut'*


This personal attack at Vixen is just that.. Personal.. You need to learn facts PieBoy..

First: There are some people who do know about the war between the clans and omni and have to land... Be it someone who needs supplies or repairs since they got hit by alien raiders or just someone wanting to study this planet for example.. Earth was not explored in a day and it took countless amount of time to even understand many things about earth I am sure we have not even came close to finding out what we could about this planet.

Second: Many come to this planet and don't know the rule of gunning down innocents as they are trying to find their way around. My brother and I didn't when we were awoken and it cost me my brothers life thanks to that freak, who in my mind needs to hang for all the innocents he has killed, that "guards" you from the "evil omni-tek spy desguised as a neutral"..

You have no one to fool but yourself and the god's forbid anyone you might lead.

*shudders*

I really would suggest you think outside the Pie before you answer anything in the future..

~Agent Bloudless

[Desclaimer: This is not a flame... This is the way I play my agent. Offence was not ment :P ]

[Yarko]

The price of greatness is responsibility. (Winston Churchill)

Yes, there may be little of interest for Neutrals in Tir. Tir, is dead. Your tower now stands in a bleak and desolate city.

Yet, Tir is a strong symbol, to the Clans as much as to every one else. “A safe harbour and home to a democratically chosen clan council.”
Isn’t it ironic that the home of the sole democratic body on Rubi-Ka is closed to all but the Clans…

It seems to me that all you remember from your history are the inhumanity, the obliteration, the repression. Where are the greatness, the nobility and the purity of the ideals your forebears nourished? Is freedom now but a hollow phrase? Are arrogance and haughtiness substitutes for liberty?

Once, the miners paved with their blood the path to a better world. “A democratic Rubi-Ka, run by the people, for the people.” Do you still struggle for freedom and ideals, or is this self-proclaimed martyrdom but a poor excuse to commit brutalities?

You call pacifism an act of cowardice? Pacifism does not stand for capitulation to injustice, violence and terror. You once had a cause. The suffering and the pain from enchained miners in the struggle for a better life for themselves, their comrades and their families against a brutal oppressor should not be forgotten.

But that is the past. To look at the past is to turn your back to the future. Let the future be our judge. Protect the Tower of Truth and your representatives by all means necessary, but give peace and democracy a chance.

People of the Clans, open the gates of Tir!

[steelyglint]

(Yes, there may be little of interest for Neutrals in Tir.).

Then why the heck is it so important for nuets to want to want to enter. it is a completly pointless argument by your own words. Tir, a sanctuary for the clans where we can meet in safety from prying eyes. be that nuet or omni.

Leftenant Steelyglint

General of The Black Company.

[Xaun]

Try to stay present it helps as your current statements make no sense whatsoever as this is now not the future you can't assume anything, the Sentinels will or will not do and since you neither support or like them you for obvious reason try using this chance yet again to throw mud after them as you have done time and time again it's getting very tiresome. And have gotten you nowhere.
Anyway... What kinda of moronic person desides to land on a planet for supplies or to do reserach without checking where they land or seek permission first to land in those areas a person like that deserves to be killed. Would be nothing but a minor civilian casualty that might have saved alot of clanners if it had been a omni tek spy, but i guess you care less about your fellow clanners than someone landing puposely in the middle of a planet in all out war?
As i stated ealier i see no reason whatsoever to reply to your completely ludicris staments in the last part of your post and attempts of mud throwing at the sentinels as it in no way portrais the current state of our lives and this planet.

I am sorry but there was no mud in her sling pieboy... It was nothing more than a simple statement of observance and "you" again as sentinels do.. turn facts into defensive ramparts from which to lauch personal attacks at the one who is speaking truth however harsh it may be... The only reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you little pie brain is incapable of reaching much higher than the rouge mutants and buzzsaws roaming about the waste land...kill...kill...kill...

I am starting to think that the word Sentinel is translated into The Murders Yacht Club...